84 M 635CSI "barn find", sort of...

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hunde

84 M 635CSI "barn find", sort of...

Post by hunde »

Hello all. I'm new to this forum and to 6er's in general. I built up a 2002 years ago into a total monster, but have been focused on VW's, Land Cruisers and Ducatis for the last several years. I'm a pretty decent mechanic, do most of my own work, and love a good challenge...

Last year, my Mom's boyfriend approached me about helping him to "thin his herd" and sell off a few of his cars. He has an interesting collection, doesn't really drive several of them, and doesn't have the know-how or time to sell them off. I have time to take this on, and visited him to check them out.

I knew he had a BMW, but didn't know what until this last week. He literally opened up the barn, and pulled the cover off this:

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We connected the battery, and it fired up and warmed up nicely after sitting for 6 months. I drove it around a bit - it sounded amazing, pulled pretty hard (at HIGH altitude), turned and stopped well. I got very excited / nervous / whatever you want to call it. Probably one of the coolest car moments of my life...

So, here's what I know - 84 grey market, 2nd owner (since 88), 84,xxx showing (not verified, but seems correct), rebuilt motor (seen receipt, don't know why it was), generally runs strong, but needs TLC. Didn't notice any rust (pretty muddy so didn't crawl under) interior is tired, some gauges don't work, lots of trim cracked / broken.

Once we get the details settled, I will be in charge of selling this beauty. It'll be really hard not to sell it to myself though! Fortunately (?) i don't have the $$$ or space right now to buy it, but that may change.

Here's my thoughts on this, please add anything or feel free to comment:

Get it out to me (San Francisco), clean it up, fix all the broken bits, and get it down to Bimmerfest in Pasadena with intent to sell. Assuming (bad idea) there aren't too many unforeseen issues, I think that I can clean this up and increase the curb appeal and sell value quite a bit.

Speaking of value, any idea what this might go for in current condition vs. a "Wheeler Dealers" makeover? If it's worth my time, I'll do it. If not, I'll put it up for sale as-is. I know it won't go "cheap" since he is a bit out of touch with market value, but if i can provide him with some hard figures I can get this moving and on the market.

Thanks for your input!

Tom
DesktopDave

Post by DesktopDave »

Ooooh...that's a nice find. I have no idea of price, but I sure love the story.
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Stoffie
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Post by Stoffie »

Nice find, but that's an S38B35 engine in there which was not even conceived yet in '84 ? Probably had an engine transplant somewhere in its life...but it still has the ''bundle of snakes'' exhaust manifold.
The M88/3 was all about power, no cats. At idle the raw fuel from the exhaust will make your eyes water like an old V-8 powered muscle car's exhaust did.
hunde

Post by hunde »

Thanks for responding guys.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is an S38B35 motor, and from what car / year does it come from? What is determined from the photo that tells you that? I understand that is the correct manifold, but don't know anything else...

I'll check it out more as i research this car, but its somewhat of a mystery since the owner had the motor "rebuilt" (new pistons and valves on build sheet) but there was no mention of a motor swap...

More to come as i investigate...
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tschultz
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Post by tschultz »

US M6 vs proper m88/3 engine from Euro M635csi.
256hp vs 282hp due to emission restrictions.
http://www.Drive4Corners.com
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'79 635CSi Revival
'80 635CSi
'83 633CSi Callaway Turbo continued as 1988 535is Turbo
SOLD: '81 635CSi/A
GripGreg
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Post by GripGreg »

Welcome
What city & state are you in?
Take pictures from just outside the driver's door to include the shoulder & seat bolsters & center console. Same on the passenger side. Sit behind the driver's seat & take a flick of the gauges so we can read the mileage. Same frame can show a lil dashboard.
Next, maybe with the steering wheel on the left showing the shifter & console.
Then pull the passenger seat forward & snap the rear seats.
Maybe the driver's side carpet & pedals?
Maybe all of this after a lil clean-up? Not too spiffy, though. Just maybe a bath & carpert vacuuming.
Hopefully the day will be bright enough to spill some light on stuff, or you have a flash?
Oh yeah, the wheels. Not too close, though. Maybe turn the front wheels toward the camera to show some tread?
Oh yeah#2; maybe from behind the driver's seat a flick of the sunroof area to show the headliner?
Great "barn find" & good lookin' sixer!
Pictures tell a great story.
Just my 2 cents. Of course you can not take any pictures, but, we'll never know the condition.
This engine compartment is full of what I call nice patina!
Nice pixes, too.
Good luck,,,,Greg
Hit the apex
in Long Beach, Cal
Buster/'82Euro6 Build Date 9/81
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m6dave
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Post by m6dave »

Inlet manifold is still m88 as it has the cold start injector fitted. You can tell it is s38 engine by the rocker cover. Perhaps original engine dropped a timing chain and had a big smash up then they decided to upgrade to double row timing chain gear and fitted an s38 head. Check the engine number to see if it is original.
hunde

Post by hunde »

Cool, thanks guys. I have some more pics / and some details on the rebuild i'll upload tomorrow.

I'm in San Francisco, car is elsewhere so I don't have access to take more pics or look into it further just yet. Hoping to change that situation soon!
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Brucey
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Post by Brucey »

If you post the VIN the date & original spec of the car can be identified

nice find BTW

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
hunde

Post by hunde »

Here are the rest of the pics i have. Was a bit limited on time then, so didn't really get into it too far...

Here are the numbers from the plate under the hood:

ABR-NR. 989211

WBAEE3108050174

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M635forever

Post by M635forever »

I guess you lost some numbers there, but it seems to be a brother to mine.... no. 180, made the very same day as this one! =)

VIN long WBAEE310801050174

Type code EE31

Type 635 CSI (ECE)

ev. series E24 ()

Line 6

Body type COUPE

Steering LL

Door count 2

Engine S38

Cubical capacity 3.50

Power 0

Transmision HECK

Gearbox MECH

Colour DELPHIN METALLIC (184)

Upholstery PERLBEIGE LEDER (0158)

Prod. date 1984-05-02

Order options
No. Description
291 BMW LM SCHMIEDERAD/KREUZSPEICH
301 DIEBSTAHLWARNANLAGE MIT ZV
350 WAERMESCHUTZGLAS GRUEN, RUNDUM
401 SLIDING/VENT ROOF, ELECTRIC
427 WARNDREIECK MIT HALTERUNG
498 HEADRESTS IN REAR, MECHANIC. ADJUSTABLE
500 HEADLIGHT WASHER SYS/INTENSIVE CLEANING
510 HEADLIGHT BEAM-THROW CONTR. F LOW BEAM
530 AIR CONDITIONING
666 BMW BUSINESS CD RDS
682 RADIOANTENNE AUTOMATISCH
915 nur Boden konserviert
979 VELOURS-FUSSMATTEN VORN UND HI

That particular piece would do great in my garage, next to my own love!
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hunde

Post by hunde »

Oops. im numerically dyslexic sometimes...

WBAEE310801050174

Also guessing this has a body kit on it, looks a blt like BBS VW stuff from that era...


Thanks again!
M635forever

Post by M635forever »

The milage the taco shows, are just not intresting, cause it been replaced to a us model.
Are there any documents that proof the mileage?
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World-Class6
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Post by World-Class6 »

A barn find it is! :mrgreen:

Link should give you an idea for M635 values~

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/ ... e-+/Values

You should investigate why the valve cover is from a U.S spec M6/S38~ would be interesting to know.

Cheers, 8)
85 M635 Schwarz (Found a new home in L.A.)
95 MBZ E36 AMG Coupe widebody Polar White
88 BMW E28 535is White
2000 Jaguar XJR Anthracite
2016 GMC Sierra Double Cab SLT- All Terrain Black
-------------------------------------------------------
M635forever

Post by M635forever »

hunde wrote:Oops. im numerically dyslexic sometimes...

WBAEE310801050174

Also guessing this has a body kit on it, looks a blt like BBS VW stuff from that era...


Thanks again!
The bodykit are M-technic...original, but the specs from BMW wont tell if it delivered as original.
M635forever

Post by M635forever »

privileged6 wrote:A barn find it is! :mrgreen:

Link should give you an idea for M635 values~

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/ ... e-+/Values

You should investigate why the valve cover is from a U.S spec M6/S38~ would be interesting to know.

Cheers, 8)
Probably it was some upgrades (degrades) when it was imported to the US, maby cause the emission regulations (but the M88/3 headers was replaced again after the registration?)
Or this one was bought from germany with a broken engine, probably a broken camchain. ?
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Brucey
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Post by Brucey »

VIN 1050174 shows as a May '84 build date Euro car.

You can get the build sheet from a friendly dealer, or via various websites with a little effort.

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Post by sharkfan »

I'm loving the period Blaupunkt Graphic Equaliser on the stalk in the passenger footwell - I've just acquired one of these, the one with sound meters, and I'm scratching my brain as to how to incorporate it into my modern headunit.....
hunde

Post by hunde »

m6dave wrote:Inlet manifold is still m88 as it has the cold start injector fitted. You can tell it is s38 engine by the rocker cover. Perhaps original engine dropped a timing chain and had a big smash up then they decided to upgrade to double row timing chain gear and fitted an s38 head. Check the engine number to see if it is original.
Ok, understanding the basic differences between the two motors, essentially a "smog" motor vs. euro-spec - lower compression, cats, double row chain, etc. Would it have been possible to just swap the head / chain drive and keep all else intact (intake, exhaust, block, etc.)?

I have a (vague) receipt from '09 with the following (and some more irrelevant bits):

Headgasket
2 Exh. valves
Rings
2 Intake valves
2 Adjustment shims

WO states - Overhaul / rebuild complete assembly, disassemble and clean engine, hone cylinders, fit piston rings, pins, bearings and tune up...

This was not done at a dealership or a known "M specialist" but rather a local guy that apparently knows his stuff. I have spoken with him in the past (not about this car) and does seem to know his stuff, or at least talks the talk. I am aware that these motors can be a bit tricky, but is what it is. Don't have a pic / record of engine number, but might try to get it.

Nowhere in oral / receipt history is there mention of anything like motor or head swap.
I guess you lost some numbers there, but it seems to be a brother to mine.... no. 180, made the very same day as this one! =)

VIN long WBAEE310801050174

Type code EE31

Type 635 CSI (ECE)

ev. series E24 ()

Line 6

Body type COUPE

Steering LL

Door count 2

Engine S38

Cubical capacity 3.50

Power 0

Transmision HECK

Gearbox MECH

Colour DELPHIN METALLIC (184)

Upholstery PERLBEIGE LEDER (0158)

Prod. date 1984-05-02
Cool! Thanks for pulling this up! Guess this verifies that it is what it says it is.
Probably it was some upgrades (degrades) when it was imported to the US, maby cause the emission regulations (but the M88/3 headers was replaced again after the registration?)
Or this one was bought from germany with a broken engine, probably a broken camchain. ?
Anything is possible I guess. According to the owner, a "Saudi Arabian" prince's son bought this while at university in Europe, and had it shipped to the states. Assuming that the prince's son had it Federalized (MPH speedo, and ???), then current owner bought it in a roundabout way from him circa 1988.

I'm inclined to say that while the odometer reading may not be 100%, it's probably not that far off. The owner has many cars, and has had many more over the years. He claims it was rarely driven which I believe for a few reasons: How many cars he has had, his statement of it being "terrible in rain and snow" which there is a lot of where he lives, and that he has dedicated vehicles for everything (hunting, ranch work, vintage cars, sports cars, etc.) and he tends to use them for their purpose. Plus, he's practically family, and family never lies to each other, right? :D
I'm loving the period Blaupunkt Graphic Equaliser on the stalk in the passenger footwell - I've just acquired one of these, the one with sound meters, and I'm scratching my brain as to how to incorporate it into my modern headunit....
Hah ha, yeah. I've been into car audio about as long as this car is old. I have a soft spot for vintage stuff.
A barn find it is! Mr. Green

Link should give you an idea for M635 values~

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/ ... e-+/Values
Thanks, that is inspiring info!

Guess the million dollar question is, will it be worth my time to try to "procure" the car for a bit of time and put some effort and (hopefully) not too much money into it to clean up, fix the broken bits and show it at Bimmerfest? I could try to sell it as-is, but there are obviously some unanswered questions about the history, motor, accident damage (if any) and other stuff that could compromise a sell.

Plus, it would be fun, and i could use a little fun right now...

Cheers

Tom
m6dave
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Post by m6dave »

The answer to your first question is yes you can swap the s38 head, rocker cover and timing chain chest onto the m88 engine. This would allow all the double row chain gear to be fitted. Some people say this can be done with the single row head but this car clearly has the s38 head fitted. This would allow you to keep the high compression pistons but the cams are different as the m88 cams are 1mm smaller in the base circle diameter. The cold start injector probably means that it still has the m88 injection system, this may have been changed if the car was being "federalised". Check the last 3 numbers on the ECU lid (above the glovebox) 079 is the US spec 256 hp version.
hunde

Post by hunde »

m6dave wrote:The answer to your first question is yes you can swap the s38 head, rocker cover and timing chain chest onto the m88 engine. This would allow all the double row chain gear to be fitted. Some people say this can be done with the single row head but this car clearly has the s38 head fitted. This would allow you to keep the high compression pistons but the cams are different as the m88 cams are 1mm smaller in the base circle diameter. The cold start injector probably means that it still has the m88 injection system, this may have been changed if the car was being "federalised". Check the last 3 numbers on the ECU lid (above the glovebox) 079 is the US spec 256 hp version.
Thanks for your help. Is it easy to read the ECU numbers? I could have the owner do it if so, if not, might have to forgo that until i get my hand on the car.

Anyone have opinions if this whole project is something i should pursue? I know there are a bunch of variables, but it seems there is potential interest in the car, and potential increase in sale-able value if I put some work into it. I did get a quote to ship the car to me, enclosed trailer, for $1500...

Thanks again...
GripGreg
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Post by GripGreg »

I bought a '75 530i that was just outside of Medford, Oregon.
Since I live in Long Beach, Cal., it had to be shipped here.
I got an independent estimate of around $1200.00! No,no.
I'm a Triple A member, so I asked them for some leads & I got a quote for under $800.00! Guess who I went with?
The shipping co. was based in Medford which may have helped.
You can join now & I think use their network almost immediately.
Good luck on you find,,,Greg
Hit the apex
in Long Beach, Cal
Buster/'82Euro6 Build Date 9/81
Rosallina/'80 528i Build Date 4/80
hunde

Post by hunde »

I've finally found out a bit more info on the M635.

According to the owner, he "blew" the original motor a few years ago, putting a piston through the block.

He found a newer motor on the east coast with around 10k on it, had it shipped out to him and his mechanic installed it. I am assuming that accounts for the "wrong" head / motor showing in the photos.

I'm trying to convince him that getting the car to Bimmerfest in Pasadena is the best way to show / sell the car. He is reluctant to put time / money into something that he is selling, which I understand, but that's not the way I typically go about selling things.

Anyway, with this information, does that give a better "target" price for selling it?

Thanks
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