School me on 2002's

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:32 am

Hey chaps.
I was having a brouse around bmw's for sale (dangerous) and found a nice 2002 that could be developed / finished off to something nice.

It's a 1974 that's had a manual 5spd conversion, twin 40mm webers, s14 stroker crank 2.2ltr , alpina cam, forged pistons, e12 worked head etc. The inside is pretty tidy with 70's 911 Porsche black leather seats and 3 spoke steering wheel being non std. They want 10900 aud which is about 5500uk pounds or about 8300usd.

The body has had its rust repaired but the engine bay is a bit messy needs tidying and a little more finishing off like lower LSD gears and headers probably high on the upgrade items required.

My mechanic raves about these cars and stated they can be easily add to make 200bhp+ but I've never really looked at one with the view to owning it. I guess 200bhp with 1000kg it would accelerate from low speeds similar to a std m635csi.

It seems like there is lots of parts available and things like turbo flare kits etc that you can do.

Anyone else have owned the 2002 or any other comments welcome.
Am I mad or is something I should consider.

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:22 pm

The 2002 is THE reason BMW exists in the USA. It is a FANTASTIC car with near 50/50 weight distribution. The 1969 - 1973 round tail light TII is most sought after in the US and the holy grail is a 1974 TURBO!!!!

If it has had all that work done to it, then it is WELL worth the asking price. If you put on some coilovers and sticky tires, it will scare you how well it handles. Incidentally, restomod builders are squeezing upwards of 300HP out of turbo engines, but the chassis doesn't like that much power. It does twist up over time. Even 200 HP is pretty hot for the body. Especially when you start driving it HARD.

I have had my 1973 in pieces for last 10 or so years and every time I think of selling it, my wife is actually the person who says "NO! You love that car and if you sell it, you will regret it." I believe that if you buy it, you will fall in love and keep it permanently.

Jose

GripGreg · Post by **GripGreg** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:50 pm

I just sold my '73 4spd round tail light '02.

They are a joy to work on!

Mine has one 32/36 cfm progressive linkage Weber carb.
Enough get-up for me, being a stock car.
It has Intrax lowering springs with KYB shocks to handle itself.
205/60X13 wheels with Pirellis. Old skool stuff.
Very reliable & can be thrown around corners like you'd never believe!

Better than our sixes! Seriously!

When/if you buy it, find some pre-seventy-four chrome bumpers to lighten the load.
But, the interior has a nice wooden dashboard.

At that price with all the upgrades, I would jump on it!
Seriously, I sold mine only because it became too tight for me to get in & out of in my old age.
Then I got Buster & it's still tight!
Ask the seller the name of the tool that sync's up the two carbs. I forget.
Let us know if you buy it & please show some pictures?

The new party begins!

Good luck,,,,Greg

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:11 pm

Cheers guys.
I'm going to look at it tomorrow morning.
(About 26hrs from now).
We will see what happens. I'm a little concerned about the hidden corrosion so if I purchase I'll take my mechanic for a corrosion inspection. Lifting carpets etc.

GripGreg · Post by **GripGreg** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:29 pm

Oh yeah,,corrosion!
Mine was rusting at the bottom of the rr windows.
Not a lot but,,,,,.

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:01 am

Absolutely go through hit with a fine toothed comb for rust.

Jose

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:12 pm

Had a look at it this morning.

The good.

- All the panels are good nice painted.
- The car drives fine plenty of torque and a nice induction noise from the twin webers.
- interior is very tidy
- nice 1970's Porsche bucket seats in black leather
- cool spors steering wheel
- 5 spd conversion
- twin webers recently overhauled and tuned.
- no vibration
- nice ride not too firm but not floaty
- looks sexy in golf yellow
- owner already negotiating lower price

The bad
- Speedo doesn't work.
- engine bay and inside trunk pretty shabby
- some small surface rust in wiper bulkhead
- e30 OEM steel wheels
- fairly tall diff
- she's a very old car 1974.

Overall it's pretty tidy.
Will have aire thorough inspection with mechanic next week and we will see from there.

GripGreg · Post by **GripGreg** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:37 am

I thought you took your mechanic?
The only real issue is the rust, to me!

And, you should never compare it to your E24.
The tall diff. could be why it's a 5spd?
To me, it's a magical connection.
That's a heckuva car for the price!
Greg

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:44 am

You would normally change out the diff. from a 3.64 to a 3.9 limited slip when you convert to the 5-speed.

Sounds like it might have the stock, open diff. The first order of business would be to change out the diff.

Jose

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:00 am

Cheers guys.
Matt (the mechanic ) couldn't get there today. It was pretty well an inspection to see if I'm interested. It's probably better than I thought it would be.

It was a converted auto so not sure on diff and I'm assuming it's not an LSD.
I'll hopefully get there late next week. I just have to try and take the emotion out of the purchase but as a BMW enthusiast it's not easy.

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:03 pm

LSD out of a 1979 or so 320is is the simple way, but you have to get different half shafts.

Now if you want to go crazy, Quaife makes a torsen gearset that replaces your open spiders and it just bolts right in. No fabrication work needed.

Jose

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:59 am

inspected it this afternoon, and drove it home (with no licence) 1 hr later.

im pretty excited

I bought it without even driving it, and the drive didnt dissapoint. It needs some sorting but most things are good, body is nice and repaired well.

There is a nice analog driving experience in these cars. No power steering, but it doesnt feel rediculusly heavy unless parking, and its got plenty of go, but ignition breaks down a little over 5000rpm, and the fueling feels not perfect. These are all simple things to resolve. Matt seems to think there is an easy 30-40bhp to be gained in sorting the stuff I have, then once the roadworthy certificate is passed (required for registration) he suggested some long curved trumpets would not go astray

I was too overwhelmed to take pics, and matt my mechanic is hiding it for next 3 weeks or so to sort the issues with it, and get it ready for the roadworthy certificate (like the MOT in the uk).

I managed to save the link with some pics and spec.

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/deta ... 2620/?Cr=0

I have my driving licence back on 22/4 so ideal time to sort some of the issues out. Engine build may need to be delayed for a short while in the E24 but parts are still being accumilated, and Im pretty sure I can keep 2 project cars building simeltaniously.

Thanks again for all the help/advise

WelshBentleyBoy · Post by **WelshBentleyBoy** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:27 pm

I ran one for 5 years and apart from a brake failure on one occasion which was rather hairy. Apart from general servicing I never spent a penny on it.
The carburettor balancing was a little tricky but once balanced it drov beautifully. It was a concourse winning car when I bought it so there were no weak spots at all. I used it for regularity rallying and only sold it when I hung up my stopwatch! I even doubled my money when I sold it!

M6smitten · Post by **M6smitten** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:54 pm

GazM3 wrote:inspected it this afternoon, and drove it home (with no licence) 1 hr later.

im pretty excited

I bought it without even driving it, and the drive didnt dissapoint. It needs some sorting but most things are good, body is nice and repaired well.

There is a nice analog driving experience in these cars. No power steering, but it doesnt feel rediculusly heavy unless parking, and its got plenty of go, but ignition breaks down a little over 5000rpm, and the fueling feels not perfect. These are all simple things to resolve. Matt seems to think there is an easy 30-40bhp to be gained in sorting the stuff I have, then once the roadworthy certificate is passed (required for registration) he suggested some long curved trumpets would not go astray

I was too overwhelmed to take pics, and matt my mechanic is hiding it for next 3 weeks or so to sort the issues with it, and get it ready for the roadworthy certificate (like the MOT in the uk).

I managed to save the link with some pics and spec.

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/deta ... 2620/?Cr=0

I have my driving licence back on 22/4 so ideal time to sort some of the issues out. Engine build may need to be delayed for a short while in the E24 but parts are still being accumilated, and Im pretty sure I can keep 2 project cars building simeltaniously.

Thanks again for all the help/advise

Golf Yellow is one of if not the most sought after colors.

Driving a 2002 will make ya grin ear to ear.

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Sun May 31, 2015 8:27 am

oops double post

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Sun May 31, 2015 8:28 am

Finally got some pics together of the 2002.
It needed a repair on the sill and RH rear wheel well, but otherwise rust is under control (hehe i think). I have it now historic registered. Firstly the dizzy was in woeful condition and it was popping and spluttering all over the place. It look like the old owner tuned around it rather than fixing it. I had it fully rebuilt (ditching the vac advance) and now it pulls really nice as clean as a whistle.

My mechanic had a go at tuning the webers, but unfortunatly they are off an emmissions alfa (or similar) and not the greatest to tune. It needs a bigger idle jet and larger venturi. I think i can go 36 on it, which should give about 160bhp capability. Im not really sure whether to optimise these carbs with longer trumpets/mesh covers, or make the change to DCOE45's which will support over 200bhp if the engine is capable.

The good news is the engine runs sweet, absalutly no blow by, but the builder has been pretty conservative, as there is 5mm piston to valve clearance at TDC so the cam must be a regrind, and compression is probably no more than 9.5:1 maybe even slightly less. Its not really making the best use of the S14 2.2ltr crank.

Im not sure whether to just drive this around for a while and collect more engine parts for the E24 or have a play with this. All it would need is a few mm off the heads, something like a 300deg cam, upgraded valve springs, and a good set of headers.

Anyway its great fun to drive as it is. Unfortunatly the heater fan shat itself so its off the road for a short while as it gets rebuilt.

Enough crapping on, enjoy the pics

m6dave · Post by **m6dave** » Sun May 31, 2015 8:46 am

Gaz
I think 36mm venturis are not ideal on 40s, better to go straight up to 45s at the start and sell the 40s to someone with a smaller engine, otherwise you will spend money on these and might not be happy in the long run. You might be lucky enough to get almost a straight exchange with little outlay. Ask around on some rally forums.

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Sun May 31, 2015 1:44 pm

Cheers Dave. Looking at the selection charts for 2.2ltr and 7000rpm even with 36mm will be on te small side.
Yes the 40's will certainly be worth something 2nd hand. As these are a critical part I'd probably prefer to have them new. By the time I stuff around with rejeting and new venturis on 2nd hand ones etc etc I could probably purchase new ones custom setup with correct length ram tubes and jetted pretty close out of the box.

sansouci · Post by **sansouci** » Sun May 31, 2015 4:08 pm

Uni-syn carb tuning and balancing devices. Used them on my 240Z

Brucey · Post by **Brucey** » Sun May 31, 2015 7:26 pm

nice!

In the UK it is commonplace to make up an manifold and stick a set of bike carbs on engines like this.... worth considering?

cheers

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:42 am

That's actually not a bad idea Brucey. A company called Lynx makes a crossover manifold though, that lets you mount a single DCOE and then there is nothing to tune.

http://www.carburetion.com/LynxManifoldsBMW.asp

Jose

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:58 am

I've sorced some dcoe45 carbs. Getting them jetted to were we think we need them to be. Also getting bellmouth horns and mesh covers (triple mesh with no overlap on the bellmouth ends.

Hope I can get them on shortly. These should give me enough headroom for 200bhp if I need it and will be much easier to tune. I'll run it like that for a while prob around the 150-160bhp mark and if I get bored I can easily turn up the wick a little with more comp and cam.

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:57 pm

Progress has been painfully slow unfortunately. I had the car back still with the 40's for 1 day and the heater fan shat itself so had to wait for a replacement from the USA. While dummy fitting the new dcoe45 carbs for making new linkages the ports on the manifold were about 5mm smaller than the ports on the carbs. The ports in the engine we're matched to the carb but one thing led to another and next time I was visiting my mechanic the head was off and the intake ports were being opened up.

We had a look at a few things and found we had custom flat top pistons and the cam looked like a regrind with 300deg measured duration and only 8.8mm of lift. We are ordering a new cam from Germany not yet sure whether we will go the 304 or 316 Schrick. The compression will be measured now to see what we have and what we can get. Ideally I'll need at least 11:1 but I may need new pistons to do this especially with the 316. I can take some meat off the head and install some relief pockets in the pistons. I guess if I have already high 9's or so this is possible but if I have anything lower there is only so far I can go.

So it looks like the humble 2002 will turn into a little 4cyl screamer but there is a problem. Progress is painfully slow and my only proper working BMW at the moment is the e24 so I haven't been able to do anything much to it. My other cars are suffering also

The e34 has a mystery cam sensor/fuel pressure issue and the dreaded starter motor short circuits when hot so it's undrivable.
The e23 is still untuned with the bigger cam etc so it drives ok but it's pretty average below 3000rpm as I've had to dump fuel into it to make it idle ok. It also has a suspension bush issue as it pulls hard to the right and clunks
The e36 has been undrivable since 2010. It's almost at te tuning stage but still a few issues to sort with painful progress.

I'm probably spreading myself to thin and can't get anything finished. Hopefully soon I can get the cars all working nice so I can get stuck into the e24.

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:10 pm

Finally at long last the 2002 is on the road up and driving. I've had it back for a few weeks now. What an orsome little car they are.

What started out as a heater fan rebuild and carb upgrade turned out to be something majorly more as lots of mechanical things needed attention. Firstly the carb ports didn't match to nice to the manifold so before I knew it the head was off. It's now fully port matched and the head fully ported with new valve springs, guides, rockers, rocker shaft etc etc.

The comp was calculated to be around 8.8:1. Not really in tune with a cammed up stroker so head was shaved and a skinny 027' cometic MLS was sought. We had to also cut in some valve relief pockets so a jig was made up out of an old m30 head and we were able to do this with the pistons in position. I had slightly more cut than needed in case i go for a bigger cam. The cam is a 308deg duration with moderate lift so the schrick 304 would probably be better suited.

The bore is quite large for memory about 92.5mm so with the 84mm s14 crank engine capacity is about 2.3litres and new comp ratio is around 10:1. Much better. It also has adjustable cam gear.

After some initial tuning of the carbs power is much better than expected. It pulls hard to about 6700rpm and midrange is just orsome. I reckon by the seat of the pants it goes almost as hard as the m635!! As an estimate it's probably got around 160bhp now with the log manifold. I'm still on the 36mm choke size at the moment so I have plenty of headroom with the dcoe45 carbs

The new found power has shown up a few flaws. The clutch is barely able to cope. The suspension bushes are sloppier than the sleeve of a wizard, gearing is too tall (3.64 with od 5spd), and non LSD diff offers no wet traction to 3rd gear.

So solutions are in place. Have the full akg bush kit, a dogleg 5 spd, a 3.45 LSD, some headers on the way from te uk (rhd) and an m30 light weight flywheel on the way also. I'm going to use the m30 sized clutch with a light 8lb flywheel will offset the extra weight of the larger clutch. Also some one installed the wrong non sleeved tailshaft so we are going to set the engine back as far as the distributor will allow to help the handling.

I'm just going to enjoy it for a bit more until all the parts are here and to my e34 is back and the upgrades will start.

I've got a handful of pics so I'll get them off the phone and uploaded shortly

ScottyK · Post by **ScottyK** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:49 pm

Nice!

bigcoupe.com

School me on 2002's

School me on 2002's

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