Cost of ownership

[vwguy]

I've had a soft spot for E24s & E28s since they first came out, I'm at the point in my life now (mid 40s) where I'm comfortable taking on a weekend driver project, what's the cost of ownership like for these cars once they get sorted out? How expensive are parts and how easy are they to find? I find it strange that see probably 3 E24s to every E28 on craigslist. cars.com, etc I assume it's because people took better care of the E24s? I've had VWs and Audis all my life so this would be a brand new experience for me.

Brian

[BillDe]

Brian, if you have everything sorted out, then its just normal costs involved. Gas, oil, tires. My 635 is fairly cheap to operate, gets decent mileage, not hard on tires with suspension geometry setup correctly(tires wear fairly even across the tread). The fun factor with these cars is well worth it(to me). Parts, I think, are not to expensive, and most are not to hard to find. Having a shop do all the work for you will be expensive, so if you can do most the work your self, you get a very good return of FUN on your money.

[euro24]

My e24 is terribly expensive. Not a cheap car to operate. Fun, but it will eat you out of house and home.

[Pod]

How long is a piece of string..........................

[jacko]

A lot depends on just how "sorted out" the car is. Cost of filters, fluids,tires and brakes is OK..... unless you keep the TRX tires and wheels.

Restoration costs can be high. Finding some restoration parts can be difficult and costly.

For me, it's well worth it.

[Brucey]

if you want low running costs, buy the best one you can afford.

Actual running costs will vary; there are many different combinations of time effort and money which need to be tipped into running an old BMW.

I've said it before but would-be owners are

-dreamers,
-spenders, or
- DIYers.

Quite a lot of owners start in the first camp and then (willingly or otherwise...) migrate to one of the other two

cheers

[GazM3]

My e24 has been one of the cheapest and most reliable cars I have owned.
I migrate from DIY to spender and back again. Sometimes I dream about stuff as well.

All car ownership is the luck of the draw. U can get a good one or a shit one.

[euro24]

For the record my e24 is one of the best maintained BMWs I've ever come across. It is still a extremely expensive car to run. Don't be fooled.

[baders]

For the record my e24 is one of the best maintained BMWs I've ever come across. It is still a extremely expensive car to run. Don't be fooled.

Why ?

[euro24]

For the record my e24 is one of the best maintained BMWs I've ever come across. It is still a extremely expensive car to run. Don't be fooled.

Why ?

It's a constant string of things. A (very) partial list of the last two years: power steering pump and hoses, seized caliper, blown center support bearing, worn out u-joint, shot rear bushings, broken steering box mount, shot idler arms (x3), water pump, thermostat, fan clutch, water leaks into passenger compartment, etc. I'm the third owner, have maintenance records till new, and have had the car for 8 years.

[Brucey]

For the record my e24 is one of the best maintained BMWs I've ever come across. It is still a extremely expensive car to run. Don't be fooled.

Why ?

It's a constant string of things. A (very) partial list of the last two years: power steering pump and hoses, seized caliper, blown center support bearing, worn out u-joint, shot rear bushings, broken steering box mount, shot idler arms (x3), water pump, thermostat, fan clutch, water leaks into passenger compartment, etc. I'm the third owner, have maintenance records till new, and have had the car for 8 years.

Most of those parts are considered 'consumables' and are so cheap it just isn't worth stressing over them. I've bought some of the same parts in the last few years (as spares to be fitted when needed or to replace ones that are decades old) and they (plus a few others) cost;

Water pump £17
Thermostat £10
Pitman arms £20
Braided stainless brake hose kit £50
New ball joint boots £2 each.
New drop links £5 (rear) £8 (front) each

Yes, you can pay a stack more if you want; I got some good deals, but how much less expensive do you want these parts to be exactly?

Other stuff does just wear out. How long do you think a U joint should last (without any lube, with a failing centre bearing present)? Should rubber parts be expected to last for ever?
The steering box mounting is a known fault on all E28 and E24 (post 5/82). You can fix it for about £10. Most people do this a precaution.

Some of the parts that have failed on your car are very likely to fail if maintenance is poorly carried out or absent. That the steering box mounting hadn't been attended to previously strongly suggests that the people doing the maintenance didn't really know what they were doing.

Similarly if the heat shield is missing from the idler arm (on LHD cars) then the idler arms will fail repeatedly; someone who really knows these cars would have replaced the missing heat shield at the first opportunity.

It isn't possible to know for sure but poor maintenance can cause other parts to fail too; the PAS pump (and hoses) will clap out if you use the wrong fluid or just never change it (stick a magnet in the reservoir for a few hundred miles and see what it collects...), similarly someone who is on form will (during an inspection service) put lube beneath the piston boots on the brake calipers, and check that the boots are OK when servicing the brakes. If you do this the calipers very rarely give trouble of any kind. Likewise if the centre bearing (another part that isn't very expensive to buy) is failing then it should be replaced before the rest of the driveline suffers.

If you pay someone else to do all this stuff then it will be expensive for sure. If you pay someone who isn't very good to do all this stuff then they will cost you double or triple because they will make (or miss) as many problems as they 'fix'.

I'd argue that running an E24 or an E28 is actually pretty inexpensive and straightforward, for a car of this age. If you want to have a very easy (but dull) life, you can buy a new car with five year's servicing included in the deal. Which is just fine. But whilst such a thing is transport, it won't necessarily scratch your itch for something a bit different. Also, when it gets to half the age of an E24, I would expect it be 'unfixable' by any definition you care to use.

cheers

[Pod]

Totally agreee, Brucey

As I've said many times on this forum, if you want a job done properly, do it yourself. If you are unable/unwilling to learn, then you will either get ripped off or suffer poor workmanship - quite possibly both!

[Da_Hose]

I do all my own work and my experience is that the E24 is relatively inexpensive to fix, short of a major electrical issue. An ECU can be several hundred, and certain BMW only parts can also be costly. However, most of your expense is exactly the kind of thing Brucey talks about. I agree that ANY car this age will have all those niggles to deal with, so really you are talking about classic car ownership.

ANY classic car will require multiple hundreds (maybe even thousands) worth of parts in the first two years you own it. After that, you will see a reduction in regular repair costs and be able to focus on maintenance. Then about 5 or 6 years into owning the car, I bet you will see another surge in parts cost as you go into preventative mode and think about how you will approach restoration.

One thing I caution anyone about is owning an M series car. If you rely on a mechanic or shop for your car maintenance, you better be made of money if you buy an M. An M car is CRAZY expensive to take care of! Most parts are three or more times the cost of the regular E24 version and require specialized suppliers. Any engine work from a skilled shop runs $150+ per hour in my area. Do no buy an M car unless you are made of money or a very highly skilled mechanic.

Jose

[euro24]

Why ?

It's a constant string of things. A (very) partial list of the last two years: power steering pump and hoses, seized caliper, blown center support bearing, worn out u-joint, shot rear bushings, broken steering box mount, shot idler arms (x3), water pump, thermostat, fan clutch, water leaks into passenger compartment, etc. I'm the third owner, have maintenance records till new, and have had the car for 8 years.

Most of those parts are considered 'consumables' and are so cheap it just isn't worth stressing over them. I've bought some of the same parts in the last few years (as spares to be fitted when needed or to replace ones that are decades old) and they (plus a few others) cost;

Water pump £17
Thermostat £10
Pitman arms £20
Braided stainless brake hose kit £50
New ball joint boots £2 each.
New drop links £5 (rear) £8 (front) each

Yes, you can pay a stack more if you want; I got some good deals, but how much less expensive do you want these parts to be exactly?

Other stuff does just wear out. How long do you think a U joint should last (without any lube, with a failing centre bearing present)? Should rubber parts be expected to last for ever?
The steering box mounting is a known fault on all E28 and E24 (post 5/82). You can fix it for about £10. Most people do this a precaution.

Some of the parts that have failed on your car are very likely to fail if maintenance is poorly carried out or absent. That the steering box mounting hadn't been attended to previously strongly suggests that the people doing the maintenance didn't really know what they were doing.

Similarly if the heat shield is missing from the idler arm (on LHD cars) then the idler arms will fail repeatedly; someone who really knows these cars would have replaced the missing heat shield at the first opportunity.

It isn't possible to know for sure but poor maintenance can cause other parts to fail too; the PAS pump (and hoses) will clap out if you use the wrong fluid or just never change it (stick a magnet in the reservoir for a few hundred miles and see what it collects...), similarly someone who is on form will (during an inspection service) put lube beneath the piston boots on the brake calipers, and check that the boots are OK when servicing the brakes. If you do this the calipers very rarely give trouble of any kind. Likewise if the centre bearing (another part that isn't very expensive to buy) is failing then it should be replaced before the rest of the driveline suffers.

If you pay someone else to do all this stuff then it will be expensive for sure. If you pay someone who isn't very good to do all this stuff then they will cost you double or triple because they will make (or miss) as many problems as they 'fix'.

I'd argue that running an E24 or an E28 is actually pretty inexpensive and straightforward, for a car of this age. If you want to have a very easy (but dull) life, you can buy a new car with five year's servicing included in the deal. Which is just fine. But whilst such a thing is transport, it won't necessarily scratch your itch for something a bit different. Also, when it gets to half the age of an E24, I would expect it be 'unfixable' by any definition you care to use.

cheers

That's all well and great (except a water pump for 17£, mine was $50 something and I bought the cheap one) but in the grand scheme of cars, e24's are not cheap to run. As for cars of this age, it might be in line with or cheaper than most performance cars of this age, but go buy a 1985 Honda Accord or Ford Escort and tell me it costs as much to run as an e24

[BillDe]

That's all well and great (except a water pump for 17£, mine was $50 something and I bought the cheap one) but in the grand scheme of cars, e24's are not cheap to run. As for cars of this age, it might be in line with or cheaper than most performance cars of this age, but go buy a 1985 Honda Accord or Ford Escort and tell me it costs as much to run as an e24 [/quote]

Apples to oranges. My daughters 96 lexus E300 cost just as much as my E24 to sort out. Now she just drives it, gas and oil changes, same as my 1980 635. My E24 runs good(for now ).

[Steve M6]

I see the 6-series as really a 5-series with a much better body. The 5-series cars get driven for lots of miles, and don't seem to have a reputation for being high-maintenance.

Most 6-series cars (I think this is representative of the collector group), don't get much daily use, so the maintenance items that are time-related might give the impression our cars need more upkeep.

Obviously if a car has a number of deferred maintenance / repairs items, they can add up. I run my cars enough to keep them "fresh", and fix things right with genuine parts when needed.

[olympia57]

Well , I'll throw my tuppenceworth in .
I've replaced just about every component on my car ,aside the main engine and gearbox , during the ongoing ( but nearly finished ) restoration . You name it and I'll betcha I've bought and replaced it . I have to say that although I've spent a tidy sum none of the parts ( well apart from those bloody front bumper rubbers that had to come from main dealer ) has been overtly expensive , in fact I'd say that the cost of parts is no greater than any other vehicle on our fleet here at home . That is also on the earlier E12 based car that many say is difficult to source parts for.
I believe that if you buy wisely and from traceable sources ( but not MD ) then it isn't an expensive car to maintain . I've recently been comparing Stateside prices with EU ones and they are significantly less across the board for every item i have looked at .

[Brucey]

.... but go buy a 1985 Honda Accord or Ford Escort and tell me it costs as much to run as an e24

oh you are right, but not the way you think; maybe things are different where you are but a 1985 Honda Accord -supposing that such a thing has actually survived- is now a car that you cannot buy spare parts for in the UK and there are none in the scrappies either. A 1985 ford escort... Jeez.... in the UK they mostly look like this now



I think it is safe to say that 'costs may be significant' if you are taking one of those on. Even if you got it sorted out, it'd still be the POS it was back in the day, too....

cheers

[euro24]

.... but go buy a 1985 Honda Accord or Ford Escort and tell me it costs as much to run as an e24

oh you are right, but not the way you think; maybe things are different where you are but a 1985 Honda Accord -supposing that such a thing has actually survived- is now a car that you cannot buy spare parts for in the UK and there are none in the scrappies either. A 1985 ford escort... Jeez.... in the UK they mostly look like this now



I think it is safe to say that 'costs may be significant' if you are taking one of those on. Even if you got it sorted out, it'd still be the POS it was back in the day, too....

cheers

Despite the copious amounts of rain we receive, for whatever reason, cars don't really rust here.

[vwguy]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. My "garage queen" for the past 20 years has been a 1990 VW Corrado, the first two years I owned it was a nightmare and very expensive to say the least, since then most things have been sorted out so I can relate to some of your comments.

Brian

[sansouci]

The other aspect of total cost of ownership is residual value. E24's are appreciating. Honda's? I don't think so.

[Roku35]

I've had a soft spot for E24s & E28s since they first came out, I'm at the point in my life now (mid 40s) where I'm comfortable taking on a weekend driver project, what's the cost of ownership like for these cars once they get sorted out? How expensive are parts and how easy are they to find? I find it strange that see probably 3 E24s to every E28 on craigslist. cars.com, etc I assume it's because people took better care of the E24s? I've had VWs and Audis all my life so this would be a brand new experience for me.

Brian

As mentioned earlier, best to buy a good one from the start. Don't make a mediocre E24 a restore project. Unless you have the skills to restore yourself, It can be expensive to re-do or nurse one back to health. Find a nice rust free example with decent worry free interiors and you will be way ahead of the game. Interior leather and dash parts will get extremely expensive. Spend all your money upfront for an nice and complete example. You will surely enjoy ownership 100 times over. There will always be things you want to do to your car, so make sure you can focus your work on the fun stuff, NOT the troubling stuff.
Production numbers of the E28 compared to the e24 are astronomically different. There are far less E24s made. You already know back in the day; 1980s, the e24 was BMWs top-of-the-line model and only the wealthy folks could afford having one in their garages. The four door E28 was marketed and popular for the family while still being a sporty car. The E28 supported many families, racking up lots of miles in its daily use. While a majority of the enthusiast and or professional kept and maintained their E24 in the garage for limited use.
With regular maintenance, these babies will last a long time. Just like anything else. Find a reputable shop that have expertise in the older BMW models and you are on your way to E24 ownership. If you can do the work yourself, more power to you. The engine bay is very accessible and there is lots of help here to aid in the upkeep and maintenance of you new E24. Good luck and happy hunting. There are still lots of nice examples out there.

[ThomasCS]

Most of those parts are considered 'consumables' and are so cheap it just isn't worth stressing over them. I've bought some of the same parts in the last few years (as spares to be fitted when needed or to replace ones that are decades old) and they (plus a few others) cost;

Water pump £17
Thermostat £10
Pitman arms £20
Braided stainless brake hose kit £50
New ball joint boots £2 each.
New drop links £5 (rear) £8 (front) each

Yes, you can pay a stack more if you want; I got some good deals, but how much less expensive do you want these parts to be exactly?

Other stuff does just wear out. How long do you think a U joint should last (without any lube, with a failing centre bearing present)? Should rubber parts be expected to last for ever?
The steering box mounting is a known fault on all E28 and E24 (post 5/82). You can fix it for about £10. Most people do this a precaution.

Some of the parts that have failed on your car are very likely to fail if maintenance is poorly carried out or absent. That the steering box mounting hadn't been attended to previously strongly suggests that the people doing the maintenance didn't really know what they were doing.

Similarly if the heat shield is missing from the idler arm (on LHD cars) then the idler arms will fail repeatedly; someone who really knows these cars would have replaced the missing heat shield at the first opportunity.

It isn't possible to know for sure but poor maintenance can cause other parts to fail too; the PAS pump (and hoses) will clap out if you use the wrong fluid or just never change it (stick a magnet in the reservoir for a few hundred miles and see what it collects...), similarly someone who is on form will (during an inspection service) put lube beneath the piston boots on the brake calipers, and check that the boots are OK when servicing the brakes. If you do this the calipers very rarely give trouble of any kind. Likewise if the centre bearing (another part that isn't very expensive to buy) is failing then it should be replaced before the rest of the driveline suffers.

If you pay someone else to do all this stuff then it will be expensive for sure. If you pay someone who isn't very good to do all this stuff then they will cost you double or triple because they will make (or miss) as many problems as they 'fix'.

I'd argue that running an E24 or an E28 is actually pretty inexpensive and straightforward, for a car of this age. If you want to have a very easy (but dull) life, you can buy a new car with five year's servicing included in the deal. Which is just fine. But whilst such a thing is transport, it won't necessarily scratch your itch for something a bit different. Also, when it gets to half the age of an E24, I would expect it be 'unfixable' by any definition you care to use.

cheers

Nothing to add, really.
My costs (in misc. parts) over the last 7 years of E24 ownership is less than €500. Car is not a daily driver, but it was on the more expensive side at purchase (from original owner). It really pays off to buy a good one to begin with..
A year later I got me a 65 Mustang Fastback. That one is under restoration now, and I'm more than 4x buying price in the hole for that one, and still counting. This was NOT a basket case, but a good driver to begin with. Restoring a common car can also be expensive.