Purchasing a "Salvage Title" Six

[IconSix]

So, as the title states purchasing a car that has a salvage title.

What are the opinions about this? If a car was vandalized and insurance company settling with the owner deeming it a total loss would you have a problem purchasing said car. The extent of the vandalism would be stereo and paint. Nothing else, car is overall clean with no problems mechanically or electrically. Interior is almost perfect, besides a few cracks on dash. Leather is Recaro Classic C and recent alcantara headliner and other bits to make it decadent. Rims are 18" Style 5 8/9's with Michelins 245F /275R, brakes are 750i all around. New Bilsteins with H&R springs, sway bars, all the good stuff that makes this overall a appealing ride.
Only thing that doesn't work is A/C. Which didn't work before car was vandalized.

But car is just as beautiful as it was before anything happened.

Let's hear your thoughts please

[hornhospital]

The definition of "salvage title" varies greatly from one state to the next. Here (Alabama) a salvage title means the vehicle was damaged so much it would cost more than a certain percentage of the book value to repair it (when my 1996 S10 pickup was totalled in 2007, it was 70%, but that also varies by state). In some states the damage from theft like yours can result in a salvage title even though the actual structural damage is minor. Here, a vehicle that has a salvage title cannot be insured or licensed until the repairs are made by a state licensed shop and it's been inspected and signed off as being being brought back to safe, usable condition. It then gets a "rebuilt" title.

Would I hesitate to buy a salvage titled vehicle? Here in Alabama, for parts, no. To put back on the road, yes. I wouldn't buy it, because it's a monumental pain in the keister to get it fixed, inspected and approved.

[GripGreg]

I'm not 100% sure but, I think California is more lenient concerning salvage titles. Smog is a different animal!
Let us know how you fare? Can you post pictures?
Greg

[alabbasi]

I'm a salvage dealer so I hope that I can answer here without too much speculation.

Salvage titles are issued when an insurance company buys the car from the owner and sells it on to a salvage dealer (hence considered a total loss).
Salvage dealer can either dismantle, sell onto another salvage dealer or rebuild the car.
If the salvage dealer rebuilds the car and sells it on, it will be issued a rebuilt title.

Salvage titles are not issued based on the amount of damage, they're issued if the insurance company buys the car off the owner. If the car is new, then this usually means that it was hit pretty hard to warrant a total loss. If the car is old, it usually means that the cost of the payout is probably less then what they estimate the cost of the salvage to be + the cost of the repair.

Example:

If your car is worth $3000
The cost of repairing a fender and bumper is $2500
If the insurance company thinks they can get more then $500 for the salvage, then they will total.

Cars as old as any 6 series do not have to be hurt badly to be a total loss. I bought a Mercedes Benz W123 280TE wagon with a manual gearbox (rare as chicken lips) at a salvage auction last year. It was totaled because the owner did not shut the hood and it lifted while driving and smashed the windshield.

I'm sure that the body shop estimate was in the order of thousands but I had it back on the road with a set of hood hinges from the junk yard and the windshield and about a days worth of tweaking to bend and adjust the hood back.

[hornhospital]

Al, you have a leg up on most of us, since you have a shop that can legally repair and resell the salvage vehicles. For some of us in some states, that's difficult at best.

Alabama used to be a dumping ground for totaled vehicles that made their way to "Bondo Row" in Boaz, AL, where there were countless 'patch shops' that specialized in piecing together wrecks and reselling them, usually through auctions. Many of them were cars stolen out of state, then brought here to be "Re-VINed" with ID from wrecks. Some of the work was quite good, and some was just plain shoddy and dangerous. In the late 1980s (or there about) the Alabama state legislature passed some very restrictive laws on who could rebuilt salvage cars, and the process for getting a previously salvaged vehicle licensed again got a lot harder. MANY of those shops in Boaz and elsewhere shut down, because they could no longer operate at a profit due to the regulations and business licensing structure/cost. Was that a bad thing? Not necessarily. It has kept a lot of questionable vehicles off the road, and it stopped the flood of stolen cars from coming to Alabama to be "recycled" using VIN tags from wrecks.

I wasn't clear on describing how a vehicle gets a salvage title, but Al clarified it. He is 100% correct. It is the insurance company that issues the declaration that the vehicle is "totaled", and therefore it gets a salvage title. The state doesn't determine if it's totaled or not. Usually the owner has zero say-so in whether it gets totaled or not, too. In my case, the pickup ('96 S-10) was one I'd inherited from my dad the year before. It was very low mileage, in excellent shape before a young lady in a Lexus decided she had the right-of-way and ran a stop sign directly in front of me. It happened so fast I didn't even have time to brake. I T-boned the car right between the doors. Amazingly (thank God) neither one of us were badly hurt. The Lexus was obviously a total, since it looked like a big banana, but the truck didn't look that bad. The repair estimate told a different story. Book value was around $5400, repair estimate was $3700. I begged them to allow the truck to be rebuilt. Her insurance company told me "take the check" for $5400. I asked if i could buy back the wreck, and they said yes, for $600. Done deal. I thought I could get it rebuilt myself, but no shops would do it for even the $4800 (wonder where they got the $3700 estimate??). I got a $4800 check and the truck, took off the parts I wanted (interior door panels, Air Lift shocks, nicer wheels and better tires than the S-10 Blazer I bought to replace it) and then sold it to a legitimate salvage rebuilder for $600. I'd still rather have had the truck. Sentimental value.

Sorry for getting long-winded and off-BMW-E24-topic. "Salvage title" brings back painful memories.

[hornhospital]

One other thing....I believe in California you can license (tag and registration) and insure a vehicle with a salvage title as Greg alluded to. No rebuilt title needed. Not so everywhere else.

[sansouci]

New York State DMV website has a discussion on salvage title. Must be inspected by state to ensure it was not stolen. Then a state safety/emission inspection. Probably more hassle but with a vintage 6: priceless.
About the Salvage Vehicle Examination Program
Important: New Salvage Vehicle Application

The DMV has a new Salvage Examination/Title Application (MV-83SAL). This form replaces the MV-899 and MV-82 to apply for a Salvage Vehicle exam. The MV-83SAL
- clearly shows what fees apply to you
- can be completed online and printed like other DMV forms
- includes a handy checklist to help you avoid missing documents

Hard copies of the MV-83SAL will be available at DMV offices by early December 2015. As of December 31st, 2015 we will no longer accept MV-899/MV-82TON applications.

What is a salvage vehicle?
By law, a 'salvage vehicle' is a vehicle that
--was transferred to or acquired by an insurance company with a Salvage Certificate (MV-907A) because it has significant damage (because of a collision, theft, vandalism, or from water)
--has repair costs that are more than 75% of the pre-damage retail value of the vehicle
--was issued a salvage title from another state and brought to New York
--was declared a 'wreck' on the back of its New York State title by the owner at the time of sale or transfer
--If a salvage vehicle is rebuilt for use on roadways, the DMV must examine it before issuing a new title certificate or registration. The required examination is part of the NYS Auto Theft Prevention Program. The program includes

vehicles that were issued a NYS Salvage Certificate (MV-907A)
--rebuilt salvage vehicles from most other states.
--A NYS Title Certificate issued after the date of May 18, 1999 for a rebuilt salvage vehicle displays the brand, 'REBUILT SALVAGE'. Some title certificates issued before May 19, 1999 also show this brand.

The salvage vehicle examination is not: a safety inspection; an emissions inspection;an insurance examination


Why is this examination required?
New York State law requires the DMV to determine if a rebuilt salvage vehicle is stolen or includes stolen parts. The purpose is to: protect consumers; find stolen items; prevent the theft of vehicles and vehicle parts


What type of vehicle needs a Salvage Examination?
--A salvage vehicle that is recovered after a theft or rebuilt after the damage must be examined by the DMV before the DMV can issue a new title.
--If the proof of ownership for a salvage vehicle is a NYS Salvage Certificate (MV-907A), the DMV will not issue a title certificate without a salvage vehicle examination.

The DMV will not examine or issue a title certificate for a rebuilt vehicle that has an out-of-state title certificate or a Salvage Certificate (MV-907A) that is labeled

'parts only'
'non-rebuildable'
'non-repairable'
'scrapped'
'destroyed'
These types of vehicles are deemed not roadworthy.

The DMV will not examine or issue a new title certificate or vehicle registration for a rebuilt salvage vehicle that does not have a title certificate or Salvage Certificate (MV-907A) that proves ownership.

Note: If the DMV finds that a recently registered vehicle has a salvage history, the DMV will notify the customer that the vehicle must go through the salvage vehicle process. The DMV will not issue a New York State title or allow you to renew your vehicle registration until the vehicle is examined and the title is issued.

Once the vehicle completes the salvage examination process and a title is issued, the owner can register the vehicle.

[IconSix]

This is the car in question.

[hornhospital]

That looks really nice.

[GripGreg]

If the other side and front look like the left side and rear, I say buy it? Is it a Cali car?

[IconSix]

Okay here is the front and the passenger side.
Like I said the car is in excellent condition,but would you be inclined to purchase if she has a salvage title for a price that is commensurate with one that didn't have a salvage title?

[Ralph in Socal]

Okay here is the front and the passenger side.
Like I said the car is in excellent condition,but would you be inclined to purchase if she has a salvage title for a price that is commensurate with one that didn't have a salvage title?

NO. Resale value of Salvage versus Clean is worlds apart to the discerning buyer. You may be buying that car at the price it should be at 10 years from now after appreciation. Given a side by side of exactly the same car for the same price (that is your question I think) and the only difference being Salvage vs. Clean title - you can answer that question on your own pretty quickly.

Before buying that Salvage car I would lay under it for at least 15 minutes and look at everything to find any actual or potential issues. You would be starting "Behind the 8-Ball" with the Salvage title so anything else it needs in the future will add to your eventual cost.


Ralph

[GripGreg]

Ralph is correct again, of course!
You don't want to buy it at today's going rate for a non-salvaged car!
BUT, you seem to know the car, because you know the a/c wasn't working before the vandalizing?
This gives you a head start, in that you know what is or isn't wrong with it?
Plus, that's a nice upgrade list.

I for one haven't bought a car as an investment. I buy it to enjoy right now. I don't believe in 'garage queens'.
Wait, I know they exist but, cars left the factory to be driven. And, I love driving my Buster!
That car looks really nice, plus you have a story about the title. All cars this old (oops!) will need maintenance. That goes with the territory.

Yes, inspect it carefully but, if you can get it at a nicely reduced price, why not? But the price has to be commensurate with the salvage title!
Good luck and let us know,,,,Greg

Ps: Is it a 5spd??

[GRNSHRK]

Ralph, Greg and everyone on the board, I have to disagree with the point of view that a salvaged titled car in CA is not worth anything near what the equivalent "non-salvage titled" example would bring

Sadly, the green shark also has a salvage title, an unfortunate situation that I can only chalk up to being naive and perhaps trusting, maybe stupid

This was the result of having been hit in the rear, actually 22 years ago, wherein I "thought" that the offending person's insurance company agreed to pay for the repairs

Turns out that this was not true, and the ensuing year when I received my tags, the resigstration indicated that the car was now salvaged

I do not recall signing any documentation stating such, and unforunately did not take this up with either the insurance company or CA DMV, and am now still in the same situation, 22 years later

But the bottom line is that this is virtually a show car, as you all know that she is shown on a regular basis

I also think that provided the repairs are completed properly, I don't see any reason why the car should be considered substantially worth less than a same condition 6er carrying a proper registration

IconSix, I'm down in Sunnyvale and if I can get away, I wouldn't mind taking a look at this example with you, if you feel the need to have another set of eyes check things out

But I would also suggest a PPI, which should be performed regardless

Sorry gents, but felt the need to chime in on this one

[GripGreg]

Ralph, Greg and everyone on the board, I have to disagree with the point of view that a salvaged titled car in CA is not worth anything near what the equivalent "non-salvage titled" example would bring

Sadly, the green shark also has a salvage title, an unfortunate situation that I can only chalk up to being naive and perhaps trusting, maybe stupid

This was the result of having been hit in the rear, actually 22 years ago, wherein I "thought" that the offending person's insurance company agreed to pay for the repairs

Turns out that this was not true, and the ensuing year when I received my tags, the resigstration indicated that the car was now salvaged

I do not recall signing any documentation stating such, and unforunately did not take this up with either the insurance company or CA DMV, and am now still in the same situation, 22 years later

But the bottom line is that this is virtually a show car, as you all know that she is shown on a regular basis

I also think that provided the repairs are completed properly, I don't see any reason why the car should be considered substantially worth less than a same condition 6er carrying a proper registration

IconSix, I'm down in Sunnyvale and if I can get away, I wouldn't mind taking a look at this example with you, if you feel the need to have another set of eyes check things out

But I would also suggest a PPI, which should be performed regardless

Sorry gents, but felt the need to chime in on this one

I hope this is in the correct place.
BOBBO; What I meant was that personally, I would have to negotiate the stigma of the salvage title into my buying price. As in a reduced price.
Have you put out feelers for someone to buy your car? Has anyone approached the salvage title?
I do wish you all the best. I hit the 'quote button but, this is in the wrong place!

[GRNSHRK]

The Green Shark, for sale

Well Greg, everything has a price, but she's currently not available for sale

But you do bring up good points, as I have never treaded down that slippery slope, I have no idea what it would take to make a deal on a vehicle with a salvage title in CA

And I couldn't agree more that it would be a huge negotiating point as well

But that comes back to my mentioning the need for a PPI, which should be performed on any 6er, regardless of the state of its registration

One last thought, I think we all also realize that any 6er is only worth what somebody else is willing to pay for it

We're talking about old cars here, 35 years of age in the case of the Green Shark, and there won't be any meaningful valuations performed by KBB, Edmunds, or the like

'Nuff said

[slofut]

So, as the title states purchasing a car that has a salvage title.

What are the opinions about this? If a car was vandalized and insurance company settling with the owner deeming it a total loss would you have a problem purchasing said car. The extent of the vandalism would be stereo and paint. Nothing else, car is overall clean with no problems mechanically or electrically. Interior is almost perfect, besides a few cracks on dash. Leather is Recaro Classic C and recent alcantara headliner and other bits to make it decadent. Rims are 18" Style 5 8/9's with Michelins 245F /275R, brakes are 750i all around. New Bilsteins with H&R springs, sway bars, all the good stuff that makes this overall a appealing ride.
Only thing that doesn't work is A/C. Which didn't work before car was vandalized.

But car is just as beautiful as it was before anything happened.

Let's hear your thoughts please

Man that looks like a NICE car! So, it has a salvage title not a "rebuilt" title? I would think a little effort with the dmv would get you a rebuilt title. Even so, it's not worth the same as a clean title car. So I say you have a good bargaining chip, I wouldn't overpay even as nice as it is because there are plenty of them on the market. But I would try really hard to get a great deal on this car and drive it!