UK EU referendum

[Pod]

I am amazed that nobody from this forum's UK contingent has mentioned this yet

[Ubercoupe]

From an Irish point of view, we would like you to stay with us within the EU! ...but it's your call folks.

[alabbasi]

Either way, I'm sure the world would survive. Even though you'd think otherwise if you listen to the news.

[Pod]

Either way, I'm sure the world would survive. Even though you'd think otherwise if you listen to the news.

I'm surprised that it has reached the US of A!

According to Cameron, we need to stay in to avoid World War 3

I guess he thinks that without us keeping them honest, the Germans would try for World domination yet again

[olympia57]

I'm Scottish and if at home I would be voting to leave .
Forget all the scaremongering and tempting promises , no government can prophesy 3 months in advance far less the years that they casually quote .
The one thing that you can guarantee if you stay in is much ,much more control will be taken from your democratically elected home government by the unelected pontificating faceless mandarins of Brussels who are just waiting to lick and seal the envelope .
In the twenty years it'll take to get another vote the country as we know it ....will be gone.
Sovereignty without Independence is a truly worthless thing .
The UK won't collapse upon exit, far from it as the EU will want to trade every bit as much with you as you with them , have faith in your unquestionable ability to make your own way in the world again and vote LEAVE .

[86_6series]

Olympia57

You make a very strong articulate argument for leaving.

Especially the loss of self government.

I totally agree. But of course it's up to the popular vote.

PS. Just read Pat Buchanan, is he right on or what?

http://buchanan.org/blog/will-always-england-125299

[sharkfan]

As the Referendum draws nearer the Exit camp get accused of not 'seeing' the bigger picture' about European Free Trade and the Stay camp are increasingly being accused of a lack of National pride.

One small difference I have noticed is the breath-taking breadth of lies that the Stay camp are spouting to try and stay their opinion; the straw for me was that Europe might descend once again into war-like chaos simply because Britain chose to leave the EU - honestly? They think this is a serious concern and point of arguement or discussion?

For better I suspect, and probably not worse at all, I have read enough and digested enough of EU Policies, trends, dictates and the subtle but very distinct lack of Democracy from bottom to top in Brussels to say that I am voting out. The EU's complete ignorance of the Dutch Referendum on Turkey's entrance to the EU speaks volumes for me; the EU is an un-Democratic, un-elected, un-accountable body pushing a singular vision that is completely at odds with the people is meant to represent.

It wants a single currency, single Government, single-armied Super-state to rival China, Russia and the U.S.A. Historically that is no different to European despots of the past three centuries but instead of bloody war it is quietly fighting economic war (through the use of the Euro) and political war through the use of ever-increasing centralised powers.

Like the Swiss and the Norwegians we would be better off on the outside looking in and thinking, thank God we're not part of that.

[alabbasi]

I'm surprised that it has reached the US of A!

The ex-pats usually pay attention to these sort of things. From my perspective; sometimes you have to be prepared to walk away in order to get the deal that you want. The exit vote does not necesseraly mean that Britain will exit, but it does mean that Britain will be in a position to exit should we not get our issues address. This is leverage that will change the negotiation.

[olympia57]

I'm surprised that it has reached the US of A!

The ex-pats usually pay attention to these sort of things. From my perspective; sometimes you have to be prepared to walk away in order to get the deal that you want. The exit vote does not necesseraly mean that Britain will exit, but it does mean that Britain will be in a position to exit should we not get our issues address. This is leverage that will change the negotiation.

Not sure where you are in the world but your grammar suggests that you are either in or from the UK.

No means a big fcuk off NO as far as the vote goes and it would take a Prime Minister with bigger attire than these below to say to the voters " Well you voted for out but I'll get a better deal and we'll stay in ......."

1414645187530.jpeg (191.21 KiB) Viewed 11164 times

[alabbasi]

Not sure where you are in the world but your grammar suggests that you are either in or from the UK. No means a big fcuk off NO as far as the vote goes and it would take a Prime Minister with bigger attire than these below to say to the voters " Well you voted for out but I'll get a better deal and we'll stay in .......

I now live in Dallas, TX, but I learned grammar at an inner London comprehensive school, meaning that it's quite terrible :)

In my mind, the UK needs to be prepared to walk away from this agreement to get a new agreement. Whether the agreement involves being part of Europe depends on what's negotiated. I certainly think that the UK's negotiating power is limited in the current environment.

Aside from Europe being able to dictate policies to the UK, I'd be interested in understanding what the other frustrations are for the general public in the UK concerning this matter.

[olympia57]

Not sure where you are in the world but your grammar suggests that you are either in or from the UK. No means a big fcuk off NO as far as the vote goes and it would take a Prime Minister with bigger attire than these below to say to the voters " Well you voted for out but I'll get a better deal and we'll stay in .......

I now live in Dallas, TX, but I learned grammar at an inner London comprehensive school, meaning that it's quite terrible :)

In my mind, the UK needs to be prepared to walk away from this agreement to get a new agreement. Whether the agreement involves being part of Europe depends on what's negotiated. I certainly think that the UK's negotiating power is limited in the current environment.

Aside from Europe being able to dictate policies to the UK, I'd be interested in understanding what the other frustrations are for the general public in the UK concerning this matter.

That's a very wide and consuming question you ask Al and it would be wrong of me , as a non resident myself of 11 years , to answer so I will deftly allow some of our UK based members to step and reply.
Don

[alabbasi]

Thank you. From my perspective, the EU has a lot to offer. The problem that I hear most about relates to concerns about the number of people moving to the UK to take advantage to the generous welfare system.

I tend to agree with the consensus. I visited London a month ago and was gobsmacked by the number of people at Ealing Broadway shopping center in West London on a Monday afternoon. My first thought was 'why are these these people not at work?'. I worked in that shopping center during my teens and at the shopping center on top of Bond Street station. Ealing Broadway now looks as busy as I remember Oxford Street on a Saturday.

I'm not accustomed to this, by contrast in Dallas, the Galleria shopping center , which is a major shopping center here is relatively empty during the week.

So is the problem immigration or the overly generous welfare system in the UK?

From my understanding ,the UK government locked horns with the EU politicians because the UK wanted to put brakes on migrants obtaining UK benefits from day one, which is understandable but maybe the wrong approach as that's the symptom not the problem.

In reality, we'd have a smaller problem with immigration and benefit fraud if the UK reformed it's benefit system so that it becomes more appealing to work instead of claiming welfare. Anyone who does not want to work can then leave and find a different country to live in and people who want to work and contribute should be welcomed.

[Pod]

You got it in one!

Just imagine what would happen in the US if there were no controls on the Mexican border? That's what being a member of the EU is all about. Every citizen of every EU member country has an absolute right to come to the UK. Period.

Even convicted murderers and rapists can live here. Recently the UK Government has tried to deport one such individual, but it went through our legal system and he was allowed to stay due to his "Human Rights" being compromised.

That's why we must vote to leave the EU without delay.

[JohnRogers]

One of the economic miracles which has helped the UK is Sunday trading. All shops can open on a Sunday (with shorter hours, mostly 12 til 5). This with full day Saturdays has resulted in a very significant number of extra hours of employment available for job seekers - compared with rest of Europe. The flip side of this is that many more people may not have to work on a Monday - which many see as a bonus. But London generally has become very busy indeed. At almost all times. The government has been able to continue running a large annual financial deficit (despite a variety of austerity cuts) mostly I guess because of this prosperity. But has the wealth come from European immigrants - or from the international extremely wealthy?

[WelshBentleyBoy]

This is the dirtiest political fight that I have ever seen. The "Remain" campaign have blighted their position by exagerating the possible downside of exiting whilst the "Out" campaign have dismissed any opinion contrary to theirs as either scaremongering or being made by people who have no right to speak!. Despite this they can give no indication of economic outcomes if we exit.
Opinion polls are divided but a distinguished investment manager who manages £225m on behalf of a charity I am associated with says that the only reliable indicator of what might happen are the Bookmakers. At the moment the "Remain" camp are 6:1 on to win!
We shall see!!

[wattsmonkey]

I find it heartening that this topic hasn't unleashed the angry and irrational responses seen elsewhere, possibly a reflection of the international membership?

Nice to see, anyway,

Rob

[alabbasi]

I find it heartening that this topic hasn't unleashed the angry and irrational responses seen elsewhere, possibly a reflection of the international membership?

https://youtu.be/QJ882QYzr-M

[wattsmonkey]

That's funny!

[Pod]

To be honest, I think we're all fed up with the claims made by the "stay" camp. Yesterday, it was the total break-up of the UK with a closed border between N.Ireland and Eire to stop immigrants getting in by that route. Plus, of course, renewed paramilitary conflict between the two regions

[alabbasi]

Can you imagine how frustrated this guy feels right now about being in Europe

http://9gag.com/gag/a1Mz9oR/uk-proteste ... -materials

[sansouci]

"No Taxation Without Representation" is a slogan originating during the 1750s and 1760s that summarized a primary grievance of the American colonists in the Thirteen Colonies, which was one of the major causes of the American Revolution by Patrick Henry.

The Brits should try this on for size......How soon they forget. There were many Royalists that spoke about the commercial connection to the UK.....

[Brucey]

how quickly they forget, indeed.... the principle is one thing the practice is another. At that time, the North American colonies had (by comparison with any other British territory) very low levels of taxation, less than 1/4 of that levied in England, I think.

And at that time the majority of the population didn't get to vote anyway. This was wrong of course, and English political dissidents (such as Thomas Payne etc) spread their ideas everywhere. But what if there had been no war of independence?

It is worth noting that in the UK, in the following century or so, we managed to change all that, ban slavery, have several wars with a nutcase who wanted to rule all Europe, improve civil rights, free speech, and generally implement the provisions of democracy that we enjoy today, all without having a revolution or a destructive and bloody civil war. Look on with envy, France, Russia, USA, etc.

Had history been different who knows what would have happened...? I suspect that US independence would have come anyway, (probably without a fight) but perhaps the US civil war could have been avoided.

And now we Brits have to make up our minds about the EU. The whole thing ought to be great in theory, but the way it is implemented means that it rubs most Brits up the wrong way at a fundamental level; very many aspects of it seem contrary to the principles of democracy that have been fought for, tooth and nail, several times over in the last century or so.

However I believe that on Thursday, most people will probably cast their vote (in either direction) for the wrong reasons. Maybe most elections are like this, in fact.... I think that many people who vote 'out' will do so in part because they fundamentally don't trust our political classes as they exist today, for example.

If we do go out (which the bookies think likely now...), I think that our economy may well suffer in the short term, but when there is a principle at stake, there is often a price to be paid; democracy never came cheap, and shouldn't be surrendered by degrees, not without due consideration.

cheers

[sansouci]

Leave? We did........

[olympia57]

I've read all sorts of absolute rubbish during the campaign and have to say that the level of debate from the remain camp has been utterly dreadful , the childish threat of an austerity budget before the referendum outcome was crass and undignified.

One simple thing I read today summed it up for me " the British have a very strong sense of freedom and Brussels has messed with that " .

I have already cast my postal vote .

[Pod]

All done and dusted (not!). If any of you guys want to buy a classic British car from these shores, now's the time to get your wallet out