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S38 fuel rail/injector removal

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jcburk
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S38 fuel rail/injector removal

Post by jcburk » Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:54 pm

Trying to remove fuel injectors for cleaning or replacement. I removed the hose connecting the valve cover to the intake, the two 10 MM bolts that secure the fuel rail to the manifold and the connector for the injector wiring harness. I also removed the top clip on 5 of the 6 injectors. I can probably get to the rear most one, but I really don't think that's what is holding up the show.

The rail is loose and I can see the injectors wiggling but they won't come free and I am hesitant to apply brute force.. Is there something else I am missing here holding this assembly in place? I don't see any good reference material anywhere on line for this engine.

Thanks in advance!

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86_6series
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Post by 86_6series » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:18 am

On my m30 had to unclip the injectors from the loose rail and pry

each out with a flathead screw driver. They were in the manifold

for 29 years and didn't like coming out. Freindy persuasion needed.

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Da_Hose
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Post by Da_Hose » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:14 am

Unclip the electrical connectors from the injectors and remove everything. Then remove the metal clips that hold the injector to the rail and start pulling/prying. I had to pull so hard, I thought they might break.

Jose
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tschultz
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Post by tschultz » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:06 pm

Here's my process for the M30-- I haven't yet done it on an S38...

I have found it easiest to first unscrew all four 10mm bolts from the rail.
Then tug on the rail upwards and pull out all of the injectors from the manifold.

Once that is done, you remove the clip that holds the injector to the rail. Once you do that, you can remove the injector and oring (while still attached to the harness).

Once it is off of the rail, you can twist it out and have much better access to remove the clip from the harness and replace it.

I found this to be a good method because otherwise the plastic injector clips will break and you can't even reach in there when the injectors are still on the rail...

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jcburk
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Post by jcburk » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:12 pm

When you refer to "plastic injector clips" you are referring to the clip securing the electrical connector to the injector correct? This is exactly the path I was pursuing I guess I just need to put a little more muscle behind it. Thanks for all responses.
John,

1987 M6 the project
1999 323i it needed a home
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Brucey
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Post by Brucey » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:22 pm

once you get to the 'wiggle' stage, it is well worth spraying the injectors with a penetrant like GT85 and wiggling a bit more. To remove them the injector O-rings have to slide and if they are bone-dry they won't slide easily.

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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tschultz
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Post by tschultz » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:22 pm

Use a small flatblade screw driver to remove the metal clip first and it comes apart very easily!

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Post by Pod » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:41 pm

BFI (Brute Force & Ignorance) has always worked for me. Just try to lift the injectors straight up and don't put any sideways force on them. Good luck!

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Post by wattsmonkey » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:51 pm

Not sure what to do about it if you pull all the injectors out at once, but be careful you don't drop a pintle cap down a cylinder.

Call me paranoid, but I take each injector out at a time, turning over the engine by hand to make sure the valve is closed in advance: that way you can hoover the bugger out if it does drop off.

I found this out by pure luck as a cap fell off on an already-closed cylinder on my M535i years ago.

I'm about to pull the injectors on the M6 before sending them off to be refurbed: M88 rather than S38, but the same process.

Good luck,

Rob
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable[!]" LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg fun

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Da_Hose
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Post by Da_Hose » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:48 am

That is a hint I really appreciate, Rob.

Jose
1987 M6 - My dream car

johnn635
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Re: S38 fuel rail/injector removal

Post by johnn635 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:16 pm

Having to AGAIN pulse the 4/5/6 injectors to free them off after standing for a few days I am pretty sure I need to remove the injectors and have them at least tested and cleaned.
Question 1. Any suggestions for someone in South Wales/South west of England(wattsmonkey knows?) to do the cleaning/testing.
Question 2. Having tried to detach the connector guide channel from the injectors and found this to be a problem, I anticipate that detaching the injectors from the fuel rail will be even worse. Add to that the possibility of bits of the injector dropping into the inlet, with the valve open. Anyone got a good step by step proven write up? I have ordered the Bosch seal overhaul kit, and I expect that reassembling will be a doddle.
BTW, the car almost passed the MOT, with just a missing washer bottle (deliberate), a misplaced headlight bulb - bad beam pattern, and a technical failure due to the rusty front wing having a sharp edge. Not bad for 86 and stood for 8 years! Emissions were well within spec, but I suspect it is running lean on at least one injector. How can you tell?

wattsmonkey
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Re: S38 fuel rail/injector removal

Post by wattsmonkey » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:34 pm

Hey John,

I used Hall's Electrical in Swindon and am very happy with service provided. You'll find them on the internet, but any probs can post details.

I didn't ever get a reply from injectortune.

Cheers,

Rob
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable[!]" LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg fun

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Re: S38 fuel rail/injector removal

Post by bpoliakoff » Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:11 am

Here in the states, i had my injectors gone through at a local Diesel parts / repair facility. New caps and seals plus the cleaning at less than $9.50 per. In addition they had new
Bosch terminals with boots for an additional $2.50 each. I am sure you guys in Europe must have some similar type facilities.
81 Euro 635 M90 with motronic. Currently under a complete nut and bolt restoration. Pictures at
flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos.

johnn635
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Re: S38 fuel rail/injector removal

Post by johnn635 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:00 pm

wattsmonkey, appreciate the steer to Halls, but I'm still very nervous about getting them out.
Any thoughts on the following procedure
1. Remove Vent pipe - just in the way, block head end.
2. Remove the injector connector spring clips ( tricky bit #1)
3. Remove connector channel, plus wire to TPS. Fold out of way.
4. Remove start valve pipe, pressure regulator tube and flow/return pipes ( depressurize?)
5. Remove 2 10mm bolts holding fuel rail. Remove injector flat clips (tricky bit #2). Pull off fuel rail - pull hard and straight up?
6. Remove all except No 1 spark plug. Paper in plug holes as usual precaution
7. Turn over until No 1 compression felt at TDC.
8. Now it's safe to pull out injector on cylinder 1. Any bits at least do not fall into the cylinder. Presumably, if they do, then would have to remove the airbox, throttle bodies and manifold. Question, should I just remove the whole intake system, including the injectors and do it on the bench?
9. Assuming the answer is no, then after removing cyl 1 injector turn in firing order 153624 till each piston is at tdc. ( clean plastic rod down plughole) and remove injectors in that order.
10. All out and nothing fell into the cylinders, have a large drink.
11. Like it says - assembly is the reverse.

wattsmonkey
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Re: S38 fuel rail/injector removal

Post by wattsmonkey » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:14 pm

Hey John,

I certainly don't regret taking the whole intake system off. If you look at the "six and the city blogspot" on M88 throttle body refurb you'll see the benefit of biting the bullet and refurbing the bits that are likely to be worn, namely the needle bearings and the return springs.

It's not a hard job and new gaskets/needle bearings/return springs are not expensive.
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable[!]" LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg fun

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Bhart
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Re: S38 fuel rail/injector removal

Post by Bhart » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:55 am

Anyone know if the six and the city blogspot has been re-posted elsewhere?
1987 M6

past Bimmers;
1970 2800CS
1988 325is
1985 325E

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Bhart
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Re: S38 fuel rail/injector removal

Post by Bhart » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:51 pm

With a whole lot of digging, I've found the partial re-release of the Six in the City blog - http://765bimmertime.blogspot.com/2013/ ... 35csi.html. I have a few older bookmarks from E28 and other sites but I'm still looking for a nice, detailed description of the whole process of rebuilding and setting up on the bench.

I have removed everything up to the head and need to resolve the sticking throttle (when hot) as well as all the other bits that should be done at almost 150,000 miles. One surprising thing I found was exceptionally clean intake valves and injector tips. This car may have had some previous maintenance I have no records for or a tribute to the use of premium fuel.

One other item I'd like some information on is the fuel rail - are the injectors easily removed? Are the o-rings in the rail replaceable?

It's all off the car, ready to be cleaned and rebuilt.... Any help will be appreciated.
Attachments
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intakes resized.jpg (78.17 KiB) Viewed 282 times
intake resized.jpg
intake resized.jpg (279.94 KiB) Viewed 282 times
1987 M6

past Bimmers;
1970 2800CS
1988 325is
1985 325E

Pink-euro635
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Re: S38 fuel rail/injector removal

Post by Pink-euro635 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:29 am

I saved this site awhile ago, it might offer some guidance on rebuilding the TBs

http://765bimmertime.blogspot.com/2013/ ... 35csi.html

Hope all goes well!

Greg

ron
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Re: S38 fuel rail/injector removal

Post by ron » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:21 am

Moved to "Tech Articles"
They are ALWAYS rustier than you thought!!!!!!
'85 M #228
'87 M #367
'88 High line.
'80 735i

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Bhart
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Re: S38 fuel rail/injector removal

Post by Bhart » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:12 am

Pink-euro635 wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:29 am
I saved this site awhile ago, it might offer some guidance on rebuilding the TBs

http://765bimmertime.blogspot.com/2013/ ... 35csi.html

Hope all goes well!

Greg
Thanks
1987 M6

past Bimmers;
1970 2800CS
1988 325is
1985 325E

Ronnie Wilson
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Re: S38 fuel rail/injector removal

Post by Ronnie Wilson » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:24 pm

Hi Guys

With 147,000 miles on the clock is it advisable to replace or have checked and cleaned my Injectors from my 86 Car. I have no record of them being changed.
Looking a the price of 1 Injector being around £140, if I need to replace them does anyone know in the uk the best place to get them.

Thanks
Ronnie
Liverpool uk.
1986 635csi

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