Fast Blinker

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spankey

Fast Blinker

Post by spankey »

This feels like a dumb question, but I cant track down a solution....

My right hand blinker flashes very fast, while my left hand is normal.

Normaly this condition is corrected by replacing a bulb...only trouble is, I cant find a problem with the bulbs. I've replaced the flasher bulbs on the right side, and they all work. Oddly, sometimes the right hand blinker does start functioning normally. Anyone have any ideas what might be causing this? Perhaps a faulty ground on one of the light cases?

Thanks,

Daniel
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Brucey
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Post by Brucey »

if all the bulbs are the correct rating and all are at full brightness, this is very odd indeed....

Theonly time it has happened to me I had an intermittent connection on one of the bulbs.

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Ralph in Socal
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Post by Ralph in Socal »

Replace the flasher relay under the dash. I had a fast left turn blinker and the relay replacement fixed it.

Ralph
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85 635csi Zinno Auto
84 528i Euro
83 635 Euro Arktik
81 528i Kastanien 5-speed
88 528e Bronzit (Granpa Car)
86 535i Auto (For Sale)
81 633 csi (retired)
spankey

Post by spankey »

Roger that, I'll give that a shot. Thats probably what it is...it the only other thing controlling the flash rate.

Also, I should have pointed out, when I put the hazards on, everything flashes normally, so I probably DONT have a grounding problem as I postulated earlier.

Thanks for the help

Daniel-
mitchcornacchia

bad ground or lose wire

Post by mitchcornacchia »

I have experienced this several times with a fast flasher.
Chris Wright

Post by Chris Wright »

spankey wrote:Roger that, I'll give that a shot. Thats probably what it is...it the only other thing controlling the flash rate.

Also, I should have pointed out, when I put the hazards on, everything flashes normally, so I probably DONT have a grounding problem as I postulated earlier.

Thanks for the help

Daniel-
Did you use the required silver base bulbs when you replaced the ones on the right? Are the ones on the left also the silver base?

If the flasher works normally for the Hazards, then it probably is not the flasher, but it you do replace it:

BMW wants $42 for this flasher! ..... Just one thing though ....

Took one in last year to my local independent Import Auto Parts store, and the owner took one look at the pin numbers on the bottom (31, 49, 49a) and informed me that it was a standard Bosch flasher configuration and gave me one used on the VW ($6). The case was a slightly different size but fit fine under the column and works fine. (The e12 based cars I believe have a 4 pin flasher and are different)

AutoHaus doesn't show a flasher in it's menu driven listings, but if you do a parts search for the flasher (61311371907) it cross-references to this:

Meyle/Wehrle ($5.95)
Hazard Warning Relay; Flasher/Turn Signal with 3 Prong Connector

Image
spankey

Post by spankey »

I'll double check the base of the bulbs. I wasnt sure what else they could be besides silver.

But if I get you right, both blinkers would be fast if the flasher relay was defective, along with the hazards.

I'll give those bulbs another check all around.
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Post by BUELLRIDER »

Where in the car is the Blinker flasher?
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JAWS

Post by JAWS »

Ralph is right , I had the same problem with a 2002tii and it was the flasher relay under the dash.
Chris Wright

Post by Chris Wright »

BUELLRIDER wrote:Where in the car is the Blinker flasher?
The later e28 cars have the turn signal flasher located on the left side of the steering column, under the bottom half of the column cover, but the e12 based cars have a different 4 prong flasher that I believe is located under the driver's kick panel but I am not sure of that … anyone? :-k
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BillDe
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Post by BillDe »

Chris Wright wrote:
BUELLRIDER wrote:Where in the car is the Blinker flasher?
The later e28 cars have the turn signal flasher located on the left side of the steering column, under the bottom half of the column cover, but the e12 based cars have a different 4 prong flasher that I believe is located under the driver's kick panel but I am not sure of that … anyone? :-k
This is correct Chris.
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Post by sansouci »

I've got inop turn signals and emergency flasher. They light up but don't flash..(vin_6997510) 1984 633. If my relay/flasher is under the kick panel or steering column (per Chris above) how do I get access to that area. Do I drop the knee panel- (I see screws here) or the steering column (no screws) or the kick (no screws)
Any pictures?


Also Is it one flasher for all functions or 1 for each.
Need to solve this to pass my DMV inspection

General Question - Is my E24 based on an E12? Or illogically on an E28?

Thanks all for your help.
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
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Chris Wright

Post by Chris Wright »

sansouci wrote:I've got inop turn signals and emergency flasher. They light up but don't flash..(vin_6997510) 1984 633. If my relay/flasher is under the kick panel or steering column (per Chris above) how do I get access to that area. Do I drop the knee panel- (I see screws here) or the steering column (no screws) or the kick (no screws)
Any pictures?


Also Is it one flasher for all functions or 1 for each.
Need to solve this to pass my DMV inspection

General Question - Is my E24 based on an E12? Or illogically on an E28?

Thanks all for your help.
Illogically?

The 6 series is mechanically based on the 5 series, so the early e24's are e12 based up to the change point in '82 when the 5 series changed to the e28 chassis and then based on the e28 after that .

When all else fails, read the instructions: :mrgreen:
http://www.malloc.nl/BMW/635CSi/pages/e ... l#refertoc

Three screws:
Image

The turn signal and flasher both use the same flasher. The turn signals won't work if the flasher switch is disconnected or bad.

Do you have your free wiring diagram (ETM) yet? If not see the "Goodies" page:
viewtopic.php?t=10410
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Post by sansouci »

Thanks For The Pic.I Only Said Illogically Because IF The Base,Chassis Model Changed From E12 To E28 Why did't Bmw Change The E24 Designation To Sokething Else?
Perhaps I don' Understand Teutonic Logic.
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)
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Post by sansouci »

Chris,
Thanks for the pic. Found the flasher on the right side of the column as the left side had the silver horn relay. Now I'm off to find that $5.95 Meyle flasher.
Cheers!
Ken
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)
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Post by sansouci »

So I bought a replacement 3-prong flasher from Standard Motor parts listed as EFL8T from Rock Auto. No flash, no nada. Got another one as a warranty replacement, still nada.
Any ideas as the original still lights up either side but doesn't flash....

--Ken
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)
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Post by tschultz »

Sounds like a grounding issue to me. Can you explain "Lights up but doesn't flash?"
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Post by DesktopDave »

sansouci wrote:Thanks For The Pic.I Only Said Illogically Because IF The Base,Chassis Model Changed From E12 To E28 Why did't Bmw Change The E24 Designation To Sokething Else?
Perhaps I don' Understand Teutonic Logic.
LOL...BMW did change the car's designation. I don't want to hijack your thread here, but I just had to be Mr. Know-It-All for a bit. The early car is an E24/1, the later car is an E24/2.

My other E24 was an '82 633CSi with the early chassis but later Motronic engine. Finding parts for it was difficult - I had to buy 3 different tranny subframes until I got the correct one. Happily, BMW had one in stock! I should have asked them first...

Internally, BMW gives each series of cars a unique production code as well. My '86 635CSi is a "5374" car. BMW is unbelievably anal retentive. Check out this site for more details:
http://www.e-24.ru/eng/theory/tech/vin/
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Post by DesktopDave »

sansouci wrote:So I bought a replacement 3-prong flasher from Standard Motor parts listed as EFL8T from Rock Auto. No flash, no nada. Got another one as a warranty replacement, still nada.
Any ideas as the original still lights up either side but doesn't flash....

--Ken
I've had that problem on my bikes. I think it's caused by a lack of proper wattage to start the turn signal blinking. There needs to be a certain amount of resistance to break the blinker relay into blinking the lights. It can be caused by corrosion inside the turn signal stalk or loose/wet/dirty contacts in the signals or a dirty/weak ground connection. It can also be caused by lower-wattage bulbs too. I know this sounds counter-intuitive...but my bike just doesn't like those long-life Sylvania bulbs. I figured they got longer life by de-rating the bulb.

I've also seen old bulbs get worn out by vibration. The retaining spring either corrodes a bit or wears the bulb's solder nipple down until connection gets intermittent.
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Post by Brucey »

if the load is 'wrong' for a traditional flasher relay then it will often either flash too fast or it won't flash at all.

You need to check that the bulb ratings are all correct, that all the connections are good and then that the flasher relay is the correct spec for the lights you are using.

If you want to run different bulbs or something like that then you may be able to obtain a solid-state flasher relay (that may not make noise even) which will tolerate a different load.

cheers
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sansouci
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Post by sansouci »

Brucy,
I will check the electrical connections this weekend:
What is the voltage I should see at the bulb socket and at the relay?
What is the best bulb to use for turn signal and what should the resistance be at the bulb's base?
My trusty radio shack VOM and DVM at work!

To Others-- the original flasher when the stalk was moved up or down would have both front and rear light up on the respective side. Just not flash anymore.

I could spend about $45 bucks on an OEM or look for the less expensive Werhle unit...but not sure the outcome would be any different
--Ken

84 633csi vin 6997510 US spec....
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)
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Post by Brucey »

the best thing you can do is to

-check the bulb ratings against the ones in the owner's manual
-check that this wattage matches the one that the flasher relay is specified for
- check for 12V under load across the bulbs and the flasher relay i.e. when the bulbs are on.
-check that the bulb current draw is in spec i.e. that the bulbs are the correct rating as stated on the bulb base

if you find that the '12V' isn't quite 12V then there is likely a bad connection somewhere (probably a ground). If you probe between each bulb connection (under load) and ground using the DVM you may see a voltage drop vs ground and/or vs full battery voltage. This may help you find a bad connection, or at least know where to go looking.

You can test a flasher relay on the bench, simply by connecting a single bulb with the same wattage as the total that are normally flashing on each side of the car. There is normally a small voltage drop inside the flasher relay; on bench test you can determine this accurately and then compare with what you see in the car.

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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