landsharks air conditioning overhaul

LandShark · Post by **LandShark** » Fri May 08, 2015 4:38 am

Thank you for visiting my thread. As a reward, here's a picture of Bert with his long term project. Back in March, I ran a 900 mile horseshoe through Arizona.

Anyway, I noticed the thread about Sanden universal brackets and wanted to show you my solution. Pics should sum up what I'm up to. The bracket is from an old Saab AC compressor 'cradle'. Comments appreciated.

GRNSHRK · Post by **GRNSHRK** » Fri May 08, 2015 3:11 pm

Before you know it, you'll be in that blast furnace you call summer

Great work Landshark, thanks for the write-up

dwcains · Post by **dwcains** » Fri May 08, 2015 3:33 pm

Are you going to change to a parallel-flow condensor?

LandShark · Post by **LandShark** » Mon May 18, 2015 11:27 pm

For the condenser, I'm probably going to spring for one of these. http://www.universalacparts.com/product ... ER-16-X-20

This hole was drilled out with a series of drill bits up to 21/32". My boss showed me how to 'mill' stuff and keep the hole centered by continually measuring and then cutting with a die grinder. Crude, but effective. The next step will be to install the compressor and get the pulleys aligned. I will then tack weld the rod in position. I'm praying that I wont need a custom length belt.

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Mon May 18, 2015 11:42 pm

You want to use an E30 AC adjusting (lower) bracket.

It has more gear teeth, so you can use a wider range of belts. If you are changing out compressors, using the E30 bracket gives you WAY more room to work with.

My M6 had an upgraded Bosch compressor installed. The result was that a stock belt was WAY too short and the next size up is too long. I had to cut the belt off to remove the compressor during the engine rebuild. DOH!

I installed the E30 lower bracket and everything was happy, happy with the longer belt. I don't remember what size I bought. I do remember we figured out the stock length and I took home the next two or three sizes up, then returned the ones I didn't need.

Jose

LandShark · Post by **LandShark** » Wed May 20, 2015 2:33 am

Thanks for the tip, I checked out some pics. We just got a belt ordered from O'Reillys, it's 38 3/8" and that should cover the resulting gap I measured compared to stock. As for a tensioner bracket, we should be able to whip something up.

Plans: 1. Universal parallel flow condensor 2. Get all the plumbing done, new hoses, fittings, (new dryer already installed) 3. New, some sort of generic thermostat inserted into the evap 4. All new wiring and toggle switches for the blower and compressor (after all, the compressor/thermostat has a series circuit)

I will not deal with craptastic 1970's plastic AC controls. Some of it was broken when I bought the car. I already have several switches, mounted on the dash panel beneath the steering wheel, ready to receive wires. They are somewhat incognito.

LandShark · Post by **LandShark** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:46 pm

Back to working in my hot garage. This is the 16X20 condenser. http://www.universalacparts.com/product ... ER-16-X-20
Just enough space to setup some brackets, 90 degree fittings, and the fan mounting. Its a good amount of space to play with after the old monstrosity came out. My boss suggested taking a chance with the old condenser. No thanks. To give some background about my vehicle, it was originally an export to Italy where summers can be hot, hence the reason this car was optioned with AC. The first owner was a lawyer in Northern Italy

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:47 am

Nice find on the condenser.

Jose

jacko · Post by **jacko** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:09 pm

Nice work! As you guys proceed with new hoses, I for one would love to follow.
This is in my future too. Texas heat ya know.....

slofut · Post by **slofut** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:27 pm

jacko wrote:Nice work! As you guys proceed with new hoses, I for one would love to follow.
This is in my future too. Texas heat ya know.....

Yes please do follow up with hose adapters and hoses! This IS the key to retrofitting a universal PF condenser.
A kit for a '71 corvette made by Classic Auto Air in Fla has a pair of adapter pipes that look like what we need. I'll try to take pics today and post. I'm thinking hard line adapters to put the hose fittings near the factory locations? I don't think full length hoses will make the bends needed otherwise, am I right?

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:24 pm

I bought some aeroquip, ez-clip style connectors and hoses to fix my setup. I will report back on how they are to work with.

The aeroquip connectors are $10 - $20 each, but should really allow you to test fit everything and pretty much crimp once in place. So running lines and protoyping everything out should be way easier than with the older crimp fittings that you have to mark, remove and take to a shop that you pay to do the alignment and final crimping.

Jose

sansouci · Post by **sansouci** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:59 pm

Jose,
I am curious that the discussions of a transition from R12 to R134a calls for using "barrier hoses" as the molecule is smaller. So what is the proper hose to use with AN fittings? Or if we want an A/C shop to make them up?
--Ken

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:20 pm

Yes Ken, the R134 molecule is smaller than R12, so the modern version of A/C hoses has an inner liner that is designed to hold in modern gases.

What I have learned during my little A/C adventure, is that there are two sizes of barrier hose. There is "reduced barrier" out there, so be careful. Both regular and reduced barrier have the same ID, but the reduced has a thinner outer layer. Any fitting must be matched to the type of hose you get.

A second issue with re-using old hoses is oil saturation. R12 used mineral oil, R134 uses PAG oil. The two are not compatible, so if you are converting the best practice is to change out everything and flush your condenser. At the very least, you should flush out your condenser with something like acetone. It will remove oil and any acetone left inside the condenser will dry residue free.

So I guess if I was doing a complete conversion I would .....
Replace hoses
Flush the compressor several times with fresh oil
Flush the condenser with acetone

You aren't using AN fittings either. You are using AC specific, o-ring fittings. The kind I am using are called EZ-clip. You need special pliers to compress the clip, but they seem easy to work with.

There is another custom setup that uses steel braided hoses and reusable, thread on SS connectors. However, those connectors are $40+ each and hose is pretty expensive. If I had a show car, I would be willing to spend the $500+ dollars it takes to use that setup, but my M6 is a daily driver.

I will post up pictures and document my process when I am done. I am using the same size stuff as OEM. That means using #10 and #6 hoses/connectors. I found a good supplier and will post that info. as well, but you can get the stuff from a variety of sources. It's also good to know that ID of the hose determines the # size.

Jose

sansouci · Post by **sansouci** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:45 pm

Jose,
Thanks for clarifying. I presumed when you said Aeroquip you were referring to AN style.
So, if I just bought original BMW hoses, I'd still be getting the old-non barrier hoses, right? So if that's true, it makes no sense to go OEM. Also, I have to rebuild my compressor as I found compressor oil all over the engine. There are several threads with pics on tearing it down and finding a friendly A/C shop for the necessary O-rings. Or just buy a Sanden or similar compressor....

But while it's 90+ deg today in NYC, A/C is not the highest priority in the work schedule, but it is getting more attention in terms of parts accumulation, etc.

--Ken

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:15 pm

Really good point on the hoses, Ken. Yes, I would certainly think it possible that an OEM hose could be a non-barrier hose.

If my compressor were dead, I would absolutely go with a Sanden conversion. Find that thread showing the adapters and either buy a set or make a set.

Jose

sansouci · Post by **sansouci** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:18 am

Bought a set in the recent group buy. One of my very few forward thinking actions.however, the typical 6-owner has a garage or basement full of spares. I'm learning this lesson.

m6dave · Post by **m6dave** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:38 am

I am going through a similar process with my M6 and have bought a new Sanden compressor and universal condenser. Now I am up to hosing and was looking at this stuff
http://speedyairspares.com.au/catalog/N ... 269-1.html

Jose how does this compare to the ez clip stuff you speak of? and where did you buy yours?

Thanks
Dave

sansouci · Post by **sansouci** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:03 pm

Jose,
Do i need to pull the dash board to get to the hoses to the evaporator connections?

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:21 pm

Ken - No, I donâ€™t believe you need to remove the dash. You will need to remove the kick panel on the passenger side and maybe the glovebox to have better access. Although, I recall the entire front section is hard lines. So you only have to replace soft lines if you have the rear A/C unit.

Dave- That clip style connector looks similar, but the Aeroquip model has two sealing surfaces. I would think that will give a better seal as there is also more aluminum for the hose to hold onto.

Hit ebay to find a vendor and order away. Here is an example.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eaton-Aeroquip- ... 6f&vxp=mtr

You will also need the ez-clip pliers to close up the clip ring. That was about $20. Once I am done, I might end up with some spare hose and connectors. I will post up my repair and let everyone know if I have spares in that thread.

Jose

BlackBetty · Post by **BlackBetty** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:41 am

As a stupid question, for you guys converting to 134, do you replace the expansion valves as well?
As for using new fittings and hoses, that makes nothing but sense to use those to plumb a new compressor in, but how do you tie into the existing hardlines ? The ones I see the rubber hose is crimped on the hardline.. Do you just cut that off and crimp on the new line.. Metric I presume?
Just trying to get my head wrapped around this for when I redo my system.
Pete

dwcains · Post by **dwcains** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:16 am

It's probably a good idea, although a giant pain in the ass, to replace the expansion valve. Not because of refrigerant choice, but because it's old and may have a bunch of junk in it. Flush the hard lines and evaporator, too, for the same reason, and to remove all the old oil, which is different between R12 and R134a.

As for the hard lines, yes, you can cut off then crimped ends and reuse the lines, if they look to be be in good shape. A food shop can make new hard lines, if needed, and if using a generic parallel-flow condenser, that might be necessary.

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:03 am

Expansion valves can be removed and flushed from both ends. The rear expansion valve actually comes completely apart, so cleaning is a sure fix.

Don't replace the evaporator. Get a flush kit and wash it out with their chemicals. Then do a final flush with acetone. Follow all safety precautions of course and don't blind or detonate yourself.

If you need to re-use hard lines, you can take things completely off and try to find a shop like cains suggests.

If you want to try fixing it yourself, Aeroquip sells a braze on end that lets you convert your existing hard lines into ez clip ends. That's the way I would go.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/ ... l_1037.pdf

Jose

LandShark · Post by **LandShark** » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:46 am

Aeroquip hoses sound nice. My boss recently invested in crimping tools, so I think I'm going traditional. I already had the evaporator out of the car. I've got to find the expansion valve. Maybe I have messed with it already, I can't recall. Pics of the belt installed. If the belt starts to stretch, the assembly will travel further away from the radiator hose due to its sweep radius. So that's a relief.

I simply bashed the original adjuster flat and welded an extra piece on to accommodate the new required reach. (I couldn't get a fancy Saab adjuster to fit lol.)

BlackBetty · Post by **BlackBetty** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:18 pm

Da_Hose wrote:Expansion valves can be removed and flushed from both ends. The rear expansion valve actually comes completely apart, so cleaning is a sure fix.

Don't replace the evaporator. Get a flush kit and wash it out with their chemicals. Then do a final flush with acetone. Follow all safety precautions of course and don't blind or detonate yourself.

If you need to re-use hard lines, you can take things completely off and try to find a shop like cains suggests.

If you want to try fixing it yourself, Aeroquip sells a braze on end that lets you convert your existing hard lines into ez clip ends. That's the way I would go.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/ ... l_1037.pdf

Jose

I am curious on how how this aluminum brazing works? Done a lot of copper soldering, but never messed with AL. Anybody tried it? Looks like it be a pretty good answer to replacing the rubber hoses on the car... Better then ripping those long SOB's that go all the way to the rear out and having to disassemble 3/4 of the cars and be able to leave everything in place...
Hmmmmmm......
Pete

Da_Hose · Post by **Da_Hose** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:22 am

The aluminum brazing is very similar to copper, but higher temps are needed and it doesn't use a flux the same way.

Today I repaired the alternator/power steering mounting bracket with some alumaweld brazing rod. In this case, the rear facing bolt hole for the power steering pump was stripped out by a PO. I cleaned the hole out really well with mineral spirits, then carb cleaner and dropped in some sections of rod to fill the hole about half way. Next, I held the bracket solid and applied heat with two MAPP torches. That bracket is big and sinks off a lot of heat. Moving the torches up/down, I get the aluminum hot enough to flow the rod. Then I jammed in a new stainless steel bolt and a tiny bit of excess overflowed out of the bolt hole. Once it cooled off, I simply removed the bolt and the new aluminum threads were bonded to the cast bracket.

You have to be really careful as the cast aluminum can start to actually melt out. Once you have done it a few times, you aren't nervous about destroying parts anymore. It really is a cool way to restore something without threadserts or timeserts.

Jose

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landsharks air conditioning overhaul

landsharks air conditioning overhaul

OMG Bert, when the Hell are you gonna finish that thing?!?