hi guys i have run into a problem so can i get some help and guydens?

[griffo]

hi guys unfortunately I cant get the s38b38 so I am looking for some more options. my options I can look into are:
-s38b36
what is available for the s38b36? what strokers can I get for this motor? what aftermarket ecu's are available?
-m90b35
can I directly swap the twin cam head over? what available in terms of ecu, stroker
-m30b35
what is available for the m30?
the last resort is sticking with the old m30 so what is available in terms of ecu, stroker etc.......
please help as I am at the cross roads at the moment!

[hornhospital]

I thought you had TWO S38s lined up to buy, like one to rebuild and use, and one as a spare? That's what you said, anyway. Sorry that fell through.

I have a serious suggestion: Why not fix what you have and enjoy it while you look for an S38 or consider other options? You really need to quit bouncing around with all these wild ideas, settle on something, and get the car running. Paper mechanics never get anything done. Start fixing what you have. That's supposed to be helpful, even if it is harsh.

[ron]

Most of what you are asking is available on the internet. Try "Googling" it. Some one will no doubt show you how to!

I fully agree with Ken's comments below.

I have a serious suggestion: Why not fix what you have and enjoy it while you look for an S38 or consider other options? You really need to quit bouncing around with all these wild ideas, settle on something, and get the car running. Paper mechanics never get anything done. Start fixing what you have. That's supposed to be helpful, even if it is harsh.

[Da_Hose]

A decent, hi-comp. piston build on an M30 could give well over 200 HP. Metric mechanic can provide a turn-key 270HP M30, for $8000.

I fully agree with Ken. Build the M30, enjoy that and see if you are serious about a high end build of an S38 variant, which will land you in the area of $15k.

Jose

[GazM3]

Here we go again.

I'd suggest to perhaps open up a project thread and ask all the advise questions etc for the prebuilt and to keep people interested a few picks along the way won't hurt.

The m90 m30 m88/3 and s38 are all from the same family which makes suggestions similar for all engines. The biggest differences between the family's is the individual throttle bodies and 4 valve heads on the m88/3 & s38.
The m30 and m90 have the single throttle body manifold which becomes a big restriction after about 5300 on the m30. I think the m90 manifold is a bit more free flowing but I could be wrong. U could get a massive improvement running weber carbs or ITB on the 2 valve engines. U can also use the larger stroke crank. The m30b35 has an 86mm stroke and with 94mm bore Pistons could make close to 3.7ltr. Use the 90mm crank from the s38b38 and have close to 3.9ltr. Ppm in Melbourne offer an expensive 94mm crank which will give 4.2ltr but piston speeds at high rpm will be through the roof.

Effectively there is nothing stopping you building a 3.7ltr m90 with ITB. Get the cam and compression correct and you could make an easy 300bhp on pump fuel spinning to 7500rpm all day

[griffo]

hi I didn't put this on the bould thread cause I'm just contemplating my ideas.
I already know were I want to go but getting there is my problem!
I agree a lot on the first comment and I am just getting the car ready for the body shop and paint as we speak so yea I'm not fooking around with this project!
ok so to clarify the 4.2 stroker will fit all the options above (s38, m90, m30?)
ok will I run into problems with porting the single cam head out?
also a question ive wanted to know- can I go and take the s38b38 cams and crank and put it into a s38b36 which will make the s38b36 have the same power as the s38b38?

[GazM3]

Hey.
I personally wouldn't install the 94mm crank. The 90mm in a s38b36 would be fine. There are a few subtle differences between b36 and b38 the main one being 50mm throttle bodies.

There is no doubt u can make some serious power in the s38b36. I wouldn't just swap the b38 cams I'd probably get some better aftermarket ones. If building a hottie s38 it costs about the same as building one to std spec. The key is to get some compression to feed a bigger cam. No problem running high 11's or low 12's with a bigger cam. U would need to change pistons and have them with valve relief pockets to cope with the higher lift cam. With a good standalone ecu you could make an easy 400+bhp at around 7500rpm

With the m30 same applies. Compression and cam with changed manifold are King. My machinist have got hold of an alpina m30 head which he can replicate the ports on a cnc machine. It wasn't unusual in the day to make 350bhp with the 2valve head. Nowadays u could make this power with a more streetable engine tune that could be daily driven.

One of the big changes in performance engines both na and forced is the availability of pump e85. It has a minimum octane of RON107 but it could be as high as 116! This means if you were to consider using e85 exclusively you could run some pretty wild compression around 14:1. The advantage in a nutshell is you get more bang per unit of fuel. There is no set rule but every point of compression gets between 5-10% of potential power. Going from say a 9:1 m30 to 14:1 would turn a 218bhp to 312bhp just on compression alone assuming you had the exhaust and intake to support it. Throw some ITB head porting larger valves and bigger cam into the mix and you have some big potential.

What I'm doing with mine is I have 13:1 Pistons and will run a 140thou cosmetic MLS gasket to lower comp to 12:1 as I'm not sure if I want to have an e85 exclusive car so if anytime in the future I want e85 only I just have to change the head gasket.

Some time ago now there was a 13.5:1 comp m20 built just with headers and a pretty mild cam. The computer was standard just with upped fuel pressure and the car went like a scalded cat especially from 4000-6200. Unfortunately the owner crashed it before a standalone could get installed. I would have not been surprised if it had 180kw @wheels.


So yes decisions decisions.
Shit I didn't want to get sucked into a large reply

[griffo]

hi gazm3 thankyou for your long reply cause it help me understand it a lot! I want to ask you this PERSONALY cause you own a s54.
I have a friend whom believes he can get s54s from the states relatively cheap so my question to you is this:
-can I bolt my old cable driven 5 speed to s s54?
-what size ITBs are on the s54?
-what is available for aftermarket ecu for the s54?
-what strokers are available- I have done some research and it comes up with a 3.4 stroker. can I use the m30b35 crank on the s54? can I use the m30 4.2 stroker on the s54?

[duracel79]

hi gazm3 thankyou for your long reply cause it help me understand it a lot! I want to ask you this PERSONALY cause you own a s54.
I have a friend whom believes he can get s54s from the states relatively cheap so my question to you is this:
-can I bolt my old cable driven 5 speed to s s54?
-what size ITBs are on the s54?
-what is available for aftermarket ecu for the s54?
-what strokers are available- I have done some research and it comes up with a 3.4 stroker. can I use the m30b35 crank on the s54? can I use the m30 4.2 stroker on the s54?

1) No the S54 is the same bolt pattern as the M20, not compatible with M30/M10
2) 50mm ID
3) I'm running Emerald, but DTA, MOTEC etc not all can run the VANOS.
4) Stroking the S54 isn't really needed but as you've probably found a couple of American companies have offerings (VAC Motorsport etc.)
The S54 is based on the small six so no M30/M88/S38 cranks are not compatible

Regards

Ben

[griffo]

oh ok so for me to put a s54 in I need to swap it to e28 diff?
when you say m30/m10 does that mean I can use a e12 4 speed 4cyl brackets pedal assembly and clutch and slave cylinder for the old e12 m30 5 speed?

[duracel79]

What I meant was, you cannot bolt a gearbox from an M30 onto the S54. Without serious cutting and alloy welding anyway.

The M10 (4 cyl) shares its bellhousing bolt pattern with the M30, however the gearbox's for the M10 are usually not as strong as an M30 variant.

In my opinion the diff will have no bearing on whether an S54 will fit in the car. How you get the speedo working is a separate issue to solve.

In my E21, I am running an early E12/E9 sideloader diff with a chopper wheel mounted on the output with an E30 BMW sensor wired up to a later electronic E24 Speedo in the original dash.

Hope this makes sense.

Ben

[griffo]

yep a little bit! so basically forget the s54 and go back to the mighty s38
so can I use the clutch and slave cylinder from the 4cyl 4 speed on the 6cyl 5 speed?

[GazM3]

The s54 is not a bad candidate to swap as it has good aftermarket support but as others have said its the small engine family. Also it's a more complex engine to tune and the s54 is basically an m50 road engine maxed out almost in radicalness so there is not much more headroom left to get more power out of it. Where the s38 is basically a severely detuned 480bhp race engine.

The other engine I would look at seriously for a swap is the m60b40. They make an easy 320bhp with a decent chip, are a very smooth revving engine( good power to 7k standard), will have more torque, sound orsome and are very cheap to purchase. Prob well under 2k where as s38 will cost close to 10k +15k to rebuild. I've got a supercharged one in my e34 we are going to up the ante on as soon as the 2002 is finished. Boost upped to 12psi running e85 with flex fuel sensor Intercooled with 60lb/hr injectors and a custom programmed haltech ecu. I wouldn't be surprised if it has over 500rwhp when done. Even when I had the Std ESS kit on it made 320rwhp and went like a rocket then. I'm pretty excited about it

[griffo]

ok thanks so much I was actualy wondering what else is available!
what are those motors out of?

[griffo]

um gaz that's A FOOKING V8

[griffo]

gaz I have access to shitloads of v8 and v12s but I wanna keep 6cyl and that's a definant.
you said earlier that you machinist has the alpina head!
can you tell me if that's for the 3.3 or the 3.5?