New Owner

[bimmerjoe]

Hello all, just want to introduce myself, my name is Joe & I am from upstate NY (Near Watkins Glen) and have just purchased my first 6 series BMW: a 1982 633 CSI. I am completely new to the E24 but have been a BMW owner since 1985 with my first purchase, a 1970 1600 which I still own. I also autocross a 1999 BMW 318ti and I am a member of both forums (2002faq and 318ti.org). I bought the 633 without it running but with a very good restoration on the body and paint. I have been familiarizing myself with the big coupe forum and its searches, trying to figure out how to get it to start. At this point it seems to have no spark so I have been searching that. I have noticed some threads about the different relays and sensors that may cause this but am still trying to locate them on the car. (The 6 is very new to me). I have resisted so far changing the Distributor cap & rotor, plug wires and coil as I really want to figure out what is not working before I just start changing parts. I thank all in advance for any help you may be able to send my way and apologize If in the future I may be asking some basic or silly questions. I tried to send along a few picks but they are too big & will compress them & send along later. Thanks Again!

[Brucey]

welcome aboard!

This link is to an archived version of a now-dead page that is (was) quite useful for no-start 6ers

http://web.archive.org/web/200607140933 ... 160912&ck=

I hope you find it useful

Looking forward to seeing pics of your car BTW

cheers

[bimmerjoe]

Some pictures

[slofut]

Any spark at the plugs? Need to be 100% positive about this first. No guessing...

[bimmerjoe]

As far as I can tell, I have no spark anywhere, plugs or coil. I found the main relay (I think) near the ecu behind the glove box, took it out and cleaned it but no luck. I did find a big yellow box under the drivers dash that had a adjustment for sensitivity and am wondering if that might be an anti-theft device and if that has anything to do with it. Thanks again for the help!

[bimmerjoe]

The yellow box I was describing and what I believe to be the main relay next to the ecu in the glove box.

[Brucey]

the main relay is a (special) five-pin relay and whilst it is found next to the ECU on 'M' models the normal location for it (and the fuel pump relay) is on the outside of the fuse box, just above the battery.

cheers

[bimmerjoe]

Brucey, thanks for the description of the relays, will replace them and then give a try. Yellow box is aftermarket cruise control.

Cheers!

Joe

[miklilmag]

Hello
Welcome to the madness,
Next to the yellow box you find a smaller black box, obc relay,
Keep that in mind looking for culprit, that will take the start signal from ecu away, if faulty!
Main relay very common to break, you can remove and jump terminals to check for beeing faulty, if replacement needet make sure it is the one for youre model, plus good idea to have a spare in trunk!
Patience during diagnostic is a must, also proper brew needs to be in youre system, this time of year i recomend paulaner octoberfest brew for this task!


Good luck,
Franke

[bimmerjoe]

OK, Here are a few pics of what I have found! That brown wire looks to be a ground but as i gently pulled on it, it became evident that it had separated somewhere & I cant find any wire in the engine compartment that looks like it. The black relay under the dash came apart (the box from the innards) when I tries to pull it out. And of course, I do have the correct relays for the main & fuel pump right? Off to take my therapy(Hofbrau Oktoberfest) that is all our local distributor carries! Thanks again for the help!

By the way, tried a generic 5 prong relay from advance auto for the main relay, nothing, tried jumper cables, nothing..... Oh well at least I have a lot of the Hofbrau!

Cheers!

[miklilmag]

Hello,
Thats something, very good progress,
Hofbrau is perfect for this task,
the black relay is not the obc relay, obc relay about the size of a cigaret box, black, has a white plug and think green plugin,
And, never seen that tall of main relay, mind pulling and taking picture of prong's, five hopefully (it is in right location)
Schould have power on terminal 86a (testlight)
Does it crank healthy?
U can also switch the crank positioning sensor wire with the other one, only need crank sensor for start signal there
the two wires coming up from bell
housing to rear manifold support bar!
Proper hydration is key!
Good luck
Franke

[bimmerjoe]

I tried switching the 2 sensor wires. No luck. Cranks very healthy. Any idea on that brown wire that is just hanging there?
Thanks Again!

Joe

[Brucey]

yes that is the motronic ECU in the background.

BTW on your model year you should not assume that a pair of relays on the outside of the fuse box are definitely the fuel pump and main relays; IIRC there are extra relays for evaporative emissions controls. The main and fuel pump relays are (as I mentioned before) often found over the battery rather than nearer the coolant bottle; in any event you can confirm the identity of the relay sockets by looking at the wire colours.

I don't recall seeing a motronic main relay that looked like yours before; can someone confirm both relay location and type on that year?

NB whenever I see a car that doesn't run in which there are suspiciously clean-looking relays, I wonder if the relays in those sockets are in fact the correct ones.

cheers

[bimmerjoe]

Thanks Brucey, I cant find any relays over the battery, that is why I think the ones I photographed where the main & fuel pump. I tried to jump the main relay and again I got nothing. I will order the correct one today. Do you think I should move along to the coil at this point as well? Thanks again for the help!

Joe

[86_6series]

In addition to Rick's NO START.

This is what most of us use when trouble shooting.

http://www.hiperformancestore.com/Motronic.htm

http://wedophones.com/BMWManualsLead.htm

[miklilmag]

Same her, never seen a tall one for main,
Can you take a close up of the wiring terminal on relay, also what are the color wires are going to it!

The brown wire is defiently ground wire, looks like still connected to ground.

Any other relays on outside of fuse box?

Franke

[bimmerjoe]

Hope these Pics help. I did order a new main relay today. Not sure if many people here are familiar with Blunttech in Minnesota, that is where I got it from. They are very big into 02's and have bought many hard to find parts for my 1600 there. Steve is who I talk to & he was asking me about the relay as well. Saying he had never seen one that tall as well. His suggestion to me was to use the new relay in the spot where the one is near the fuse box is. If that doesnt work then replace the old one & try the main relay in the glove box next to the ecu. He was looking at the pictures I have posted on line & was very intrigued by that one in the glove box. I will try that when it comes in. Thanks again to everyone for their help!

Cheers

Joe

[GazM3]

Nice looking 6 u have there.

Also plenty of love here for the 2002

[miklilmag]

Hope these Pics help. I did order a new main relay today. Not sure if many people here are familiar with Blunttech in Minnesota, that is where I got it from. They are very big into 02's and have bought many hard to find parts for my 1600 there. Steve is who I talk to & he was asking me about the relay as well. Saying he had never seen one that tall as well. His suggestion to me was to use the new relay in the spot where the one is near the fuse box is. If that doesnt work then replace the old one & try the main relay in the glove box next to the ecu. He was looking at the pictures I have posted on line & was very intrigued by that one in the glove box. I will try that when it comes in. Thanks again to everyone for their help!

Cheers

Joe

The first picture, how many wires going to that relay? And what color?
The one you think for lighting!

Blunttech is in my town, there famous!

The tall one is a purge valve relay, the one next to is the fuel pump relay, then the relay in first picture should be main, red/white, red/blue, brown, green and red! Jumper that one!
Good luck!
Franke

[miike87]

You can hardly assume function from the manufacturer name. Hella and VDO produce all kind of car electronics.
The black box under the dash is the intensive washer controller (Steuergerät für Intensivreinigung).

[bimmerjoe]

Thanks again to all for your continuing help! I will get there eventually! Here are some more pics of the other relays I have found. Miike87, thanks for the translation! I appreciate it (The only German I know is how to order Beer!). I have used Blunt for my 1600 for several years and always have good luck with them!

Cheers,

Joe

[tschultz]

If you want to find out which is the main relay, you need to use the ETK which was offered for these cars.

This is for an '85:
http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/1985% ... Manual.pdf

Wire colors are listed.

First you need to make sure you have good speed and reference sensors. Great tech website here: http://www.hiperformancestore.com/motronic.htm

[bimmerjoe]

OK Guys, Update: Following the troubleshooting guide for the speed and reference sensors. Got a reading of 995 on the speed sensor on the contacts #1 & 2 and no reading on the rest of them. No readings on any of the contacts for the reference(or position) sensor. Ordered them from Blunttech today & will update when I put them in. Any advice on installation of these sensors? Thanks again for all the help.

Cheers

Joe

[hornhospital]

Just make sure you keep it straight which is which. The speed and reference sensors cross-connected is a no-start.

[bimmerjoe]

It looks as if the speed and reference senors were plugged in wrong. Its hard to see on this photo but if you look close enough, you can see the grey sensor on the left. According to the troubleshooting guide it is supposed to be on the right. That picture was taken the day I purchased the car. I have tried switching the plugs but still no start. Those 2 sensors also do not look like they are original equipment. They look to have very little wear and grime on them. When I took them out, there was a little spot on the outside end of the sensor, almost like a little pitting. Is there a gap or tolerance or some type of space that needs to be there when installed. I will try to get some pic of that. Should I also be tracing the upper wires of those sensors to make sure they are going to the correct places as well?

Thanks Again!

Joe