Relay madness

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matthewdesigns
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Relay madness

Post by matthewdesigns »

Hi All,

In the midst of trying to track down a battery drain problem I have run across a relay that stays energized when the ignition is off/key out. [Big drain, kills the battery in 2-4 days depending on the temperatures.] The relay would click off when I pulled the positive battery lead and that's how I tracked it down.

Figured OK I'll just look up which one this is and pop a new one in. Well, because the relays are not mounted to the fuse box (broken tabs) and potentially not in their original location I can't determine which it might be, but based on the harness running to them they appear to be in the right location (not enough slack to move them far). In looking around I also see that a 633CSi would appear to have 3 relays on the inboard side of the box, mine has 4. I found the color codes for the wiring in another thread, and while the mystery relay appears to be the main relay based on colors, the one directly behind it has even fatter power wires running through it, so I'm not convinced. Pics of the mess below.

Testing:

Barring any determination of which it actually is, I decided to swap in a different relay to see if the always-energized condition would be eliminated. When I initially pulled it and compared it to another 5-pin (the one with fatter leads) I see that the clicking one is a 5 pin type B, and the other a 5 pin type A.

Test #1 was pull the type B and see what happens on start. Fired up and ran for a few seconds and then died. Maybe the fuel pump relay, but all of those I've seen mentioned are 4 pin relays. And my pump is not running while this relay is energized, ignition off.

Test #2 I swapped the 5 pin type A and B relay locations and nothing burned up or exploded, but the car didn't start (in fact the starter stayed energized even after the ignition was turned off/key out and kept the engine turning over, but the car didn't start).

Test #3 I pulled the only other 5 pin type A relay I had around the house (a 0332204401 from an e30) and popped it into the location where the type B had originally been seated. Car started, ran/drove, turned off when I wanted it to, and when I pulled the positive lead there was no click of the relay.

I left the battery connected after all of this to determine if this is the battery drain.


SO, I guess my questions are:

Why are there four relays here when every other pic I find of a 633 has three? Car is a late '83 build date if that helps. I have read that the later e24 shares the e28 chassis, and from what I've seen those also have three relays in this location.

If in fact this car is supposed to have four relays there, is the 0332204401 I popped in there the right one? Again, car runs and drives and shuts down as normal. I just don't want to overload a circuit that may be getting power when it is not supposed to by using this relay here.

Thanks! Matthew

Four relays next to the fuse box. The clicking 5 pin type B is the black plastic relay.
IMAG9891.jpg
IMAG9891.jpg (128.58 KiB) Viewed 7174 times
This is the underside of the rear-most relay, which has the largest leads.
IMAG9895.jpg
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The 3 other relays and their wires. Note that there is a jumper between them (solid green)...not sure if that's normal.
IMAG9896.jpg
IMAG9896.jpg (237.36 KiB) Viewed 7174 times
'84 633CSi
Arctic White/Pearl Beige
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tschultz
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Re: Relay madness

Post by tschultz »

The big rectangular one is added on later and is the purge valve relay for emissions. Later US cars use a coolant based valve that is vacuum based. It connects to an extra harness on the AFM that you should be able to remove, but you may have to remove some of the relay wiring. Wires should have some combination of green

Fuel pump relay is wire colors red/wht, br/grn, red, grn/vio
Main relay is grn, brwn, red, red/wht
I can't remember what the 3rd relay is
http://www.Drive4Corners.com
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'79 635CSi Revival
'80 635CSi
'83 633CSi Callaway Turbo continued as 1988 535is Turbo
SOLD: '81 635CSi/A
Pod
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Re: Relay madness

Post by Pod »

I had this problem. Read "episode 2" of my thread. It may help!

http://bigcoupe.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=27921
matthewdesigns
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Re: Relay madness

Post by matthewdesigns »

Tom: Thanks for the info on the large rectangular relay, that checks one off the list for me. I'm still curious as to why I don't see a mention of another 5 pin relay in that area; descriptions seem to point to only (1) five pin and (2) four pin relays. Will keep poking around online and see what turns up.

Pod: This does indeed seem to be very similar to what I am experiencing, thanks for the link. As noted above there was a 5 pin type B in place of what I'm hoping is now the correct type A I've installed. I had no idea that there were differences either, but my Spidey Sense said "don't just cram another relay in there"...glad I dug into it a bit. And I've also been over the whole fuse box a few times checking for leaks but never came up with anything. I'll know in a few days time if this was the cause of the drain.
'84 633CSi
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raykoke
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Re: Relay madness

Post by raykoke »

I've seen infrared cameras used for heat detection of hot relays when they shouldn't have been. You may be able to use an IR temp gun for the same application. FWIW.

https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-ONE-Thermal ... B00VILVV62

I have a drain also that I need to chase one day....

Cheers,

Ray
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cgswift
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Re: Relay madness

Post by cgswift »

I'll try to look at my '83 tomorrow. Can't guarantee anything, I work too much! It was built in 10/82, might be close enough to garner some information. Toph (Colorado 6'ers, too cool!)
1983 633CSi Balticblau Metallic
1972 K5 Blazer w/4Wheel Popup
1972 Datsun 510 Badass Monster!
1959 Corvette FI 283
1950 8N Ford Tractor (Harrison)

"Strive for perfection, excellence will be accepted."
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tschultz
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Re: Relay madness

Post by tschultz »

If you notice, the 5 pin type B is going to the purge valve relay. This is because all of that harness was added after production and it likely should have been a 4 pin to begin with. When you remove that relay and harness you won't use the 5th plug on the relay.

Also, Toph, my car is 9/82 VIN ending in 021... I wonder how close to mine yours was in production? I'll have to check out your place sometime since I live pretty close to you.
http://www.Drive4Corners.com
Image
'79 635CSi Revival
'80 635CSi
'83 633CSi Callaway Turbo continued as 1988 535is Turbo
SOLD: '81 635CSi/A
matthewdesigns
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Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:18 am
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Re: Relay madness

Post by matthewdesigns »

Thanks Toph! Nice to see another Coloradan here.

Tom, per your earlier post, the large rectangular relay is for the purge, but it is a 4 pin.

Either way, removing the black relay and replacing it with the other type *seems* to have cured the battery drain. I let the car sit for 4 days and it fired right up...otherwise would have been dead with the old relay installed.

I do have another relay-ted request: what are the Bosch part numbers for the relays here outside the fuse box? The random one I stuffed in place of the old clicking one comes up as a fuel injector relay (0332204401), and while everything seems to be working normally I don't want to fry anything.

Thanks everyone!
'84 633CSi
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cgswift
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Re: Relay madness

Post by cgswift »

Finally got an opportunity to go out back and take a look. Mine looks like yours, except reversed, and a lot more dust. Big silver is closest to the firewall. I'll try to upload my crappy phone pic soon, it's time for dinner. I was incorrect about my car though, it is a 12/82 build date, 725687 are the last six VIN #'s.

You should try to hook up with Rainer (Hefeweitzen) in the Springs. He's been around these beauties long enough to know what's going on.

Schultzy, come on by! I'm off starting Friday through Tuesday, Nine on, five off, a billion hours a day. Come check out the progress on the Garagemahal, or Carthedral, whichever you prefer. Toph


I've got more info on the relays, just outta time.
1983 633CSi Balticblau Metallic
1972 K5 Blazer w/4Wheel Popup
1972 Datsun 510 Badass Monster!
1959 Corvette FI 283
1950 8N Ford Tractor (Harrison)

"Strive for perfection, excellence will be accepted."
matthewdesigns
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:18 am
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Re: Relay madness

Post by matthewdesigns »

Thanks Toph, I appreciate the continuing bits of info. No rush over here, and greatly appreciated. So far the battery has not drained out again, and nothing has melted, so I"m starting to relax a bit haha.

I did manage to get my hands on an e28 Bentley manual this weekend so I'm hoping there will be relevant information inside. Have not had time to dig through it yet.

Matthew
'84 633CSi
Arctic White/Pearl Beige
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