Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

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LarryM
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Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by LarryM »

I recently installed a Behr radiator in my E24 and my engine seems to be running warmer. It doesn't get close to the red zone, but the temperature fluctuates quite a bit, between the 10:30 - 1:00 positions on the gauge depending on the load and speed. At idle and on a flat highway it's fine, but going up a long 7% grade near my home it creeps up past the 12:00 position, which it didn't do with the OE BMW radiator I just removed.

Most of the cooling system components are relatively new; I've bled and purged the system the best I can and am quite positive I've gotten all the air out. I'm wondering if the Behr radiator I've installed is defective, or maybe not up to par with the cooling capability of a BMW-branded radiator.

As an example, I own an E28 which has a BMW radiator (made by Behr); it runs at cooler and much more stable temperatures, never getting close to the 12:00 position, no matter the load. I've also noticed its cooling tubes are the "flat" type, vs. the "round" type in the new aftermarket Behr radiator I just purchased for my E24.

I know Behr is an OE supplier to BMW, but is there a difference between the Behr radiators sold through parts retailers, vs. those that are sold through BMW dealers? Has anyone else experienced the same issues I'm having?
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by sansouci »

I had read somewhere that they have a cheaper line for the aftermarket/DIY market. I'm guessing the difference is thinner material, leading to a shorter life span. Do you have the original to count and compare the cooling tubes? That may be the answer....
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by LarryM »

sansouci wrote: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:35 am I had read somewhere that they have a cheaper line for the aftermarket/DIY market. I'm guessing the difference is thinner material, leading to a shorter life span. Do you have the original to count and compare the cooling tubes? That may be the answer....

BMW-branded radiators are significantly more expensive than the ones sold through retailers. I'd like to believe that you get what you pay for, but my recent experience with defective BMW heater valves (now made in China) doesn't do much to support that theory.

Still, I might bite the bullet and buy one. Many guys seem to be having problems with aftermarket radiators lately. I just finished a manual swap at considerable expense so what's a few hundred more if it'll get the car completely sorted. I'll report back.
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by 86_6series »

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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by brickwhite »

For $142 dollars I'd buy from FCP

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-ra ... 111712447a

if it fails send it back... lifetime warranty on all parts...

or the Behr is $187...

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-ra ... 7111468546
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by plip1953 »

Are you sure your viscous fan is working properly?
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by LarryM »

Both the Behr radiator and Sachs fan clutch are brand new. The fan clutch is working properly. When I pull the radiator I'm going to have it flow-tested.
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by Jono B good »

86_6series wrote: Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:21 pm Wizard is the only way to go.

https://wizardcooling.com/1980-88-bmw-e ... -radiator/
That is pretty!!! =D>

Mine has a sticker it was built in Denmark, pretty sure it says Behr, but all aluminum no plastic crap.
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by LarryM »

86_6series wrote: Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:21 pm Wizard is the only way to go.

https://wizardcooling.com/1980-88-bmw-e ... -radiator/
The idea of a quality, all-aluminum radiator is very appealing but I've read there have been some fitment problems with these. What was your experience during installation? Also, these are reportedly slightly thicker than the stock radiator core; are you able to R&R your fan without removing the radiator? I assume it cools very well. Certainly looks nice.
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by 86_6series »

I have a 5 speed so was no need to fab trans cooler connections.

The Wizard bolted up with no problems at all. Plenty of room

for fan. I've owned the 6 for 30 years, never had an overheating problem.

Five months ago the orig radiator sprung a leak. Temp gauge needle at around

10 o'clock. With Wizard 10 o'clock even with AC on. Track days pushing hard

10 o'clock. Yeah, not cheap but reservoirs will not crack and leak.
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by Tommys 89 635 »

I ordered a Wizard radiator and it bolted up fine but it was too think. The space it left between the radiator and fan wasn't enough and with any motor problems the fan would have cut into it so I went back to my OEM one. Looks good though.
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by 86_6series »

Wondering if there's a difference in water pumps
that would reduce the clearance from an 86 to an 88 car.

Or maybe it's the b34 vs. the b35, assuming you have the m30.

I know that Jimmy S. had a US M and I think his Wizard was an

easy fit also. Just curious---
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by Tommys 89 635 »

yes my 89 does. Metric Mechanic used to have a cooling package with a 524d radiator and made an adapter which set the fan back toward the motor about 3/8 (?) inch or so. I called them and they no longer make it, said it's been years. :(
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by sansouci »

Here's a recent somewhat relevevant tidbit below but I'm not sure how it affects design and manufacturing:


MAHLE intends to continue its growth in the aftermarket with thermal management products
Stuttgart, August 9, 2018 – The MAHLE Group plans to acquire all the shares in Behr Hella Service GmbH, its current joint venture with Hella, and to distribute Behr Hella Service products via its own Aftermarket organization. This step will further strengthen MAHLE’s position in thermal management. Following a transitional period, MAHLE intends to manage the spare parts business for thermal management products on its own, starting on January 1, 2020.

Press release [PDF; 181 KB]
MAHLE plans acquisition of Hella’s shares in the joint venture Behr Hella Service, transitional period until December 31, 2019
Products and solutions for efficient thermal management are of great strategic importance for all powertrain technologies
Full spectrum of thermal management products for MAHLE Aftermarket customers from a single source
MAHLE and Hella have agreed that MAHLE will take over Hella’s 50 percent share in the joint venture Behr Hella Service. The planned transaction is still subject to the approval by the antitrust authorities.

“Behr Hella Service has been a successful company for many years and is a perfect match for us, both strategically and technologically,” says Arnd Franz, Member of the Management Board of the MAHLE Group and responsible for Automotive Sales and Application Engineering as well as for the Aftermarket business unit.

Established in 2005, the joint venture Behr Hella Service GmbH has specialized in the marketing and distribution of products for cooling and air conditioning in the automotive aftermarket. With the complete takeover of business activities, MAHLE will offer wholesalers and workshops the full spectrum of thermal management products from a single source in future.

“With this planned acquisition, we are complementing our Aftermarket product range by a business field of great long-term importance,” explains Olaf Henning, Head of the MAHLE Aftermarket business unit. “Efficient thermal management will play an increasingly important role in future—for all powertrain technologies. This move will allow us to give the best possible support in this very promising area and to ensure the successful operation of workshops.”

“Our long-standing partner MAHLE will continue managing the thermal management business of Behr Hella Service on its own in future. As a result, we will align our Aftermarket business more consistently with our strong original equipment competences, particularly in lighting and electronics, and will mesh these areas closely with our expertise in workshop equipment,” says Dr. Andreas Habeck, responsible for Hella’s Aftermarket business segment. “Together, we will make the transition of the business activities as smooth as possible for our customers.”

Once the acquisition is complete, MAHLE will expand its distribution of thermal management products in the aftermarket outside Europe. The newly added activities are going to benefit from MAHLE Aftermarket’s extensive sales network.

Find out more at the MAHLE press conference at Automechanika Frankfurt 2018 on September 11, 2018, at 4 p.m. in Hall 3.C, Exposé conference room.

About MAHLE
MAHLE is a leading international development partner and supplier to the automotive industry as well as a pioneer for the mobility of the future. The group’s product portfolio addresses all the crucial issues relating to the powertrain and air conditioning technology—both for drives with combustion engines and for e-mobility. In 2017, the group generated sales of approximately EUR 12.8 billion with about 78,000 employees and is represented in more than 30 countries with 170 production locations.

About MAHLE Aftermarket
MAHLE Aftermarket, the business unit specializing in spare parts, uses the expertise from the series production of original equipment in its automotive aftermarket product range, and supplies trade, workshop, and engine repair partners. The portfolio also includes products developed by MAHLE Service Solutions for workshop equipment as well as comprehensive services and customized training programs. The full extent of this expertise is found in the MAHLE ORIGINAL, BRAIN BEE, BEHR, CLEVITE, IZUMI, KNECHT FILTER, and METAL LEVE brands.

MAHLE Aftermarket is represented at 25 locations and other sales offices worldwide, with around 1,600 employees. In 2017, the business unit achieved a global sales volume of over EUR 950 million.

For further information, contact:
MAHLE GmbH
Bettina Schlegel
Corporate Communications/Public Relations
Pragstraße 26–46
70376 Stuttgart/Germany
Phone: +49 711 501-13185
E-mail: [email protected]
Last edited by sansouci on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by sansouci »

There is a long thread on bimmerforums about radiators called "Radiators: Genuine BMW vs Behr" started 1/12/16.

Here is what "shogun" said (and he's a BMW guru to the E32 world)

Behr/Hella alternative product range
Just for info, when you find a super cheap Behr / Hella product it is for sure a product out of their socalled Alternative Products Range and NOT the original Hella / Behr quality. Here is a flyer with important info on that, so that you see what you are buying. "Alternative for repairs in relation to the current value of the car"
That means cheaper products comparable to other aftermarket brands and I assume the quality is accordingly, see some claims for example about radiators, where people buy such a product and compare it with their old original Behr.

Alternative products are labeled with "Alternative". The alternative items which are being offered parallel to the corresponding original parts are provided with a separate part number and are labeled "Alternative".
As you can see from the flyer, the original Behr is marked as produced by Behr, while the Alternative product just mentions "Alternative, Time Value Repair, Made in....."

E34 radiators as example

Original part.............Alternative part
8MK 376 713-241...........8MK 376 713-244
8MK 376 717-211...........8MK 376 717-214
8MK 376 712-371...........8MK 376 712-374
8MK 376 710-781...........8MK 376 710-784


http://www.behrhellaservice.com/behr...e_Range_GB.pdf
SHOGUN'S TRICKS AND TIPS FOR THE SEVEN SERIES
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by pgh880 »

Hi ,

I had replacement Behr radiator made in South Africa it lasted for 10 years then sprang a leak . Replaced it by a more OEM looking Nissen Radiator so far so good it’s been in my car for more than 3 years no problem so far . Our climate here in the Philippines is very hot & humid . Traffic is a way of life . So I always make sure the cooling system of my car is in excellent condition. I change the coolant yearly just using 1 gallon of Preston mix w/ distilled water . Have been doing this religiously since 2001 when I acquired the E24 .

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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by LarryM »

I’m the OP with an update.

So I decided to purchase a new radiator and thermostat from a BMW dealer (Husker BMW in Nebraska). What I discovered was, there are indeed some differences between a BMW-branded radiator (made by Behr in Germany) and a Behr radiator (made in South Africa) sold through retailers.

The BMW radiator uses 45 “flattened” coolant tubes running crossways, while the Behr uses 25 either round or oval (hard to tell) tubes, in each row. I don’t know how many rows there are in each radiator; I assume 2 or 3. But it does appear that the BMW radiator’s core has more surface area and I would thereby assume it’s more efficient for heat transfer.

The plastic used in the header tanks on each one is different. The BMW’s tanks have a rougher texture, while the Behr’s are smooth. I’ve read that some radiator manufacturers have been using recycled plastic but I have no idea how to tell by appearance and feel.

Also, the header tanks on the BMW radiator are crimped as well as bonded; the Behr’s are simply bonded. The BMW’s appears to be more costly to manufacture, but more rugged.

So I drove my car today with the new “genuine” BMW radiator and BMW thermostat, and took some readings with an infrared thermometer. (Note that the ambient temp today is about 80*F, whereas it was about 85*F last time I drove it.) The temp gauge still fluctuates somewhat under different driving conditions, but it stays between 10:00 and 11:30 and never goes beyond the 12:00 position. Previously, with the Behr radiator, it would sometimes go beyond 12:00 and approach 1:00 while under load, going uphill on a long grade. My readings on the radiator, thermostat housing, hoses, etc. confirm it’s now running about 10*F cooler than before. I feel this is about where it should be.

BTW, the BMW-branded t-stat (made by Wahler) appears to be virtually identical (aside from the “BMW” logo) to the Wahler t-stat I removed. I tested both of them in hot water and they perform the same. So don’t waste your money by paying extra for one of these at a dealer.
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by sansouci »

Larry,
Great post!
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by JCS »

LarryM wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:16 am I’m the OP with an update.

So I decided to purchase a new radiator and thermostat from a BMW dealer (Husker BMW in Nebraska). What I discovered was, there are indeed some differences between a BMW-branded radiator (made by Behr in Germany) and a Behr radiator (made in South Africa) sold through retailers.

The BMW radiator uses 45 “flattened” coolant tubes running crossways, while the Behr uses 25 either round or oval (hard to tell) tubes, in each row. I don’t know how many rows there are in each radiator; I assume 2 or 3. But it does appear that the BMW radiator’s core has more surface area and I would thereby assume it’s more efficient for heat transfer.

The plastic used in the header tanks on each one is different. The BMW’s tanks have a rougher texture, while the Behr’s are smooth. I’ve read that some radiator manufacturers have been using recycled plastic but I have no idea how to tell by appearance and feel.

Also, the header tanks on the BMW radiator are crimped as well as bonded; the Behr’s are simply bonded. The BMW’s appears to be more costly to manufacture, but more rugged.

So I drove my car today with the new “genuine” BMW radiator and BMW thermostat, and took some readings with an infrared thermometer. (Note that the ambient temp today is about 80*F, whereas it was about 85*F last time I drove it.) The temp gauge still fluctuates somewhat under different driving conditions, but it stays between 10:00 and 11:30 and never goes beyond the 12:00 position. Previously, with the Behr radiator, it would sometimes go beyond 12:00 and approach 1:00 while under load, going uphill on a long grade. My readings on the radiator, thermostat housing, hoses, etc. confirm it’s now running about 10*F cooler than before. I feel this is about where it should be.

BTW, the BMW-branded t-stat (made by Wahler) appears to be virtually identical (aside from the “BMW” logo) to the Wahler t-stat I removed. I tested both of them in hot water and they perform the same. So don’t waste your money by paying extra for one of these at a dealer.
Larry,

Thanks for your in depth analysis.
I also bought a BMW Radiator from Husker, 3 months ago.
And in your blog you mention the side tanks are plastic.
My tanks are metal NOT plastic, as I tested with a magnet.

Best,
Jay
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My NEW Website https://www.jaysbmwparts.com/
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Re: Radiator: BMW brand vs. aftermarket?

Post by pgh880 »

I had the Behr Radiator that was made in South Africa and it’s nowhere near the appearance of my OEM Behr radiator . The Nissen brand looks like the OEM Brad probably identical .
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