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Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:52 pm
by 635sharknose
I'm struggling with removing this nut, how do you guys remove it?
I do not have impact tools available, just a wrench and 30mm long socket.

I read in the Bentley service manual that I have to hold the flange while loosening, but how? There is not mutch to hold down to.

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:25 pm
by 86_6series
I would insert a screw driver through one of the ears and wedge it against the
edge of the casting.

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:33 pm
by 635sharknose
Can that be done without risk of damaging the ear of the flange or the casting?

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:44 pm
by Ralph in Socal
From your pic I can see you have not removed the sheetmetal lock that keeps the nut in place

Use two screwdrivers to pry the bent edges from the curved recess then pry out the lock

Put 2 of the DS bolts in the flange holes then wedge a bar between the bolts for use as a stop leverage

Ralph

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:28 pm
by 635sharknose
Oops :-"
Took the lock plate out, blocked the flange with 2 bolts...
Tight!! Not easy to loose!
Stopped for now, was not able to get it loose. ](*,)

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:11 pm
by Ralph in Socal
Impact wrench makes it so much easier. The cheaper battery units are more than capable so you don’t need an air compressor. Good luck

Ralph

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:32 pm
by bpoliakoff
Try giving it a pull to the to the tight side. Sometimes that will break a bolt, nut or screw loose. You might also put your socket on and give the handle a hard wrap with a hammer and that could very well break it loose

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:12 pm
by 635sharknose
Thanks guys, tried it all but without luck.
Will get me a battery impact gun.
What would you recommend as minimum torque?

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:53 pm
by 86_6series
Good idea with the bolts, either way I think you would feel the tension
on the casting and stop applying pressure. The impact is the safer way of removing.

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:46 am
by hornhospital
It'll take in the neighborhood of 400 lb/ft CCW torque to break it loose, maybe more. I'd err on the side of overkill and get something in the 750 lb/ft range. The assembly torque us like 350 lb/ft. Trying to recall from memory.

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:47 pm
by 635sharknose
Thanks, was thinking of a torque around 500nm too, which is close to the 400 lb.ft you mentioned.
The assembly torque isn't that high it is 120nm (89 ft.ft) for the 2nd stage of tightening.

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:44 pm
by miklilmag
Hello
Worth a try
Sometimes they brake loose tab/hitting the breaker bar with a small sledgehammer

Good luck
Franke

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:21 pm
by 635sharknose
Hi, thanks for your reaction. I will give it another try. [-o<
If it won't I will rent a powerful 600nm impact gun.

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 2:59 pm
by 635sharknose
It eventually broke loose with a 1300Nm (958 ft-lb) pneumatic impact gun... :shock:
Tried first with a 680Nm (500 ft-lb) without luck.
Took off the flange and pried both seals out.

The small transmission selector shaft seal seemed impossible at first but when I smashed it in on one side, it rotated a bit in the seal bore, after that it was out in a minute. [-o< I used a grinded screw driver to pull it out, which was helpful.

20200502_123353.jpg
20200502_123353.jpg (280.54 KiB) Viewed 1898 times

Took out the output shaft seal without issues, but after it was out I noticed a scratch in the housing. Seems like someone was in here before me and scratched the bore :evil:. The scratch is visible on the photo and it is also visible on the seal I took out. I am not sure if it leaked oil through the scratch, but I assume it did. It did leak before, that's the reason I changed the seals.
I do not want to just put in a new seal as the person before me did. I want to seal the gap.
Was thinking of using sealant, I have Curil K2 available. Not sure though if it will seal the scratch good enough. I have read about repairing it with JB Weld. Not sure though if that will work with the transmission still in the car. Someone has a good idea to fix this? :?:

scratch seal bore.jpg
scratch seal bore.jpg (165.35 KiB) Viewed 1898 times
scratch seal.jpg
scratch seal.jpg (128.42 KiB) Viewed 1898 times

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 3:02 am
by hornhospital
That's way more than a scratch. That was deliberately done. The seal was put in, then a hole was drilled lapping over the joint and a tapped, and a setscrew was put in there. It's called a "Dutch lock" to prevent the seal from turning or backing out. I'm surprised you didn't find the setscrew.

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 10:49 am
by 635sharknose
Thanks for your reply.
Perhaps it isn't visible on the photo but it is in fact a scratch. :(
It is not a drilled hole with thread in it I'm afraid.

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 6:03 pm
by 635sharknose
Contacted J-B Weld and they advised this epoxy.
Anyone have experience with it with similar repairs?

Image

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 6:35 pm
by plip1953
635sharknose wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 10:49 am
Thanks for your reply.
Perhaps it isn't visible on the photo but it is in fact a scratch. :(
It is not a drilled hole with thread in it I'm afraid.
That really doesn't look anything like "just a scratch". And there's an indentation in the rubber seal too. Could it be that someone has previously been somewhat exuberant in trying to remove the seal at an earlier time?

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 7:55 pm
by bpoliakoff
My belief is the scratch on the seal is passing oil and then through she slot on the case a good seal should hold but as has been suggested fill the groove in the case with JB weld To do it right and proper pull that housing and have it welded and machined. But that would be last chance if the JB Weld didn't do the deed

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 8:59 pm
by jps635
I've tried the JB weld 2 part mix before and is quite liquid - takes a while to cure and won't hang up in that location.

I would think a putty would be more suitable; just did a quick search so something like this

https://www.motoquipe.co.nz/buy/jb-j-b- ... ced/JB8267

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Mon May 04, 2020 9:20 pm
by bpoliakoff
JBWeld makes a two part putty problem solved Thick and moldable like modeling clay

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 6:24 am
by 635sharknose
plip1953 wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 6:35 pm
That really doesn't look anything like "just a scratch". And there's an indentation in the rubber seal too. Could it be that someone has previously been somewhat exuberant in trying to remove the seal at an earlier time?
I'm afraid so Phil, looks like they tried to pry it out with a sharp object, prying between the seal and the bore. The spot you see on the seal is where it touches the groove. You see that the rest of the seal is pressed in except for that spot. I'm quite sure it must have leaked.


Guys, thanks for the tip with the putty style JB Weld, will get get instead of the liquid version. Thanks! =D>
Oh by the way, would perhaps a combination be best? Seal the deepest part of the scratch first with the liquid form and the use the putty to close the gap?

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 6:49 pm
by bpoliakoff
You are over engineering this. Just use the putty and sand it down to match the contours Remember "Kiss, keep it simple stupid"

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 2:10 am
by Rondel Fan
Pretty sure you're setting a new definition of "scratch". I've never seen a scratch cast a shadow! That said it is hard to tell if the corresponding area on the seal is concave or convex. It sure seems like it is concave which would argue it having housed a pin or grub screw as was previously posited.
It also seems that gouge was formed from the inside out which is also curious. :-k

Re: Removal of 30mm driveshaft flange nut

Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 4:44 am
by Ralph in Socal
I would set the new seal in with jb weld or some other sealer like curil. Let the jb weld fill and then cure in the gap. Just don’t use too much that you have severe overflow into the trans

Ralph