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1984 633CSi Rises again!

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:20 pm

hornhospital wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:28 am
Have you ever tried a new set of OEM Bosch plugs, the WR-9-LS?

I normally prefer NGKs, but my 633 seems to run better on the Bosch plugs.
Have not tried Bosch on the e24. I have tried them in other cars.

The e24 has idled perfectly before which leads me to think it’s not plugs. The rough idle at start is a pretty recent development so something must have gone bad. Vacuum leak was my first hunch, but now that I’ve gone through all the hoses for the idle circuit, it doesn’t look like that’s the issue.

I’ve read of the Temp sensor, O2 sensor and a few other things to try, but as usual I am hoping to gain the collective wisdom of bigcoupe in hopes I can reduce the experimentation period!
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Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by raykoke » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:23 pm

I'd try a valve adjustment and an Italian tuneup first :)

I try Italian tuneups frequently. I don't know if they help, but I feel better :D

Your rotor and distributor cap are good, right?

I'd look at injector spray patterns after. Or maybe put some Lucas injector cleaner through, or Techron.

Cheers,

Ray
'85 ///M635

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Phantom Coolant leak

Post by songzunhuang » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:19 am

So in the past weeks, my car is losing about 1-2 cups of coolant every 40 miles. I can't clearly see any moisture or leaks most of the time, but every once in a while I spot something that could be a leak. It must be so slow as to evaporate on contact with the hot engine. As a result, I am systematically replacing all the hoses that are suspect. This weekend as I was scratching my head, I spotted a hose that I hadn't considered before. The is the hose along the firewall from the heater valve to the engine. I hadn't considered it because there's never been any evidence of moisture from that area. That didn't stop me!

I decided to use some really high-quality silicon hose that I happened to have lying about from another project. It wasn't until after I installed it that I realized it didn't look stock. LOL! Oh well, it's in there now and when my other hoses arrive (hopefully today), I will have eliminated all old or suspect hoses.
Screen Shot 2017-10-16 at 6.11.39 PM.png
Great hose but not OEM looking. Oh well.
Screen Shot 2017-10-16 at 6.11.39 PM.png (781.26 KiB) Viewed 821 times
At this point I am looking for function first, then I'll worry about appearances later. Meanwhile, I am sad to report that this fixed nothing. This morning after my commute to work, I was 2 cups low again. Argg. ](*,)
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:22 am

raykoke wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:23 pm
I'd try a valve adjustment and an Italian tuneup first :)

I try Italian tuneups frequently. I don't know if they help, but I feel better :D

Your rotor and distributor cap are good, right?

I'd look at injector spray patterns after. Or maybe put some Lucas injector cleaner through, or Techron.

Cheers,

Ray
Haha, I had to look up the Italian tuneup. OK, done. Valve adjustment will have to wait until a day I have more time. I did do one about a year ago.

Rotor and distributor have been replaced about 1.5 years ago. I guess I can check again when I have time.

Injector cleaner can't hurt. That's now on the list.
-----
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1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by raykoke » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:21 am

How are you measuring the coolant leak?

Um, the exhaust does not smell sweet, does it? :)

If you let it go further (days), does more coolant escape? I mean, it's not just seeking a lower level than you anticipate, right?

Good luck,

Ray
'85 ///M635

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:47 am

raykoke wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:21 am
How are you measuring the coolant leak?

Um, the exhaust does not smell sweet, does it? :)

If you let it go further (days), does more coolant escape? I mean, it's not just seeking a lower level than you anticipate, right?

Good luck,

Ray
No, the exhaust doesn't smell sweet (aka a head gasket leak). Also there is no puff entering into the cabin (heater core leak).

As for whether it is seeking a lower level, I have filled the expansion tank every time I drive it for almost 2 weeks now. It's consumed easily 1 gallon of coolant/water about 2 -4 cups at a time. It does lose more when I drive more. After about 1 hour of driving, the low coolant light will come one. It's definitely going at a pretty regular rate, I just can't figure out exactly where!

I do see traces of dried coolant on the front of the oil pan with streaks going back, indicating that wind is blowing it back. I can only guess this is coming down from the mess of hoses at the thermostat and water pump area. That's why I've pulled that apart twice and reseated the hoses. I am now awaiting the arrival of 2 new OEM hoses to replace some aftermarket hoses, although I don't see definitive evidence of the aftermarket hoses leaking either. So you see why this has become a total head-scratcher.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by hornhospital » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:48 am

You could take a giant step toward finding coolant leaks by using a pressure tester on the system. Super simple to use, it'll point out leaks where you never suspected there were any before. And it's done cold, so no chance of getting scalded if something lets go.
Ken Kanne
'84 633CSi "Sylvia"; '85 635CSi "Katja";'87 325is "Odette"; '93 325is "Elvira"

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by TBM » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:11 pm

Song,

If you have the OEM radiator with the crimped tanks that is a prime suspect as well. I had a really good radiator shop take mine apart check the internals and crimp it back.
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by TBM » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:20 pm

[/quote]

Haha, I had to look up the Italian tuneup. OK, done. Valve adjustment will have to wait until a day I have more time. I did do one about a year ago.

Rotor and distributor have been replaced about 1.5 years ago. I guess I can check again when I have time.

Injector cleaner can't hurt. That's now on the list.
[/quote]

Replacing injectors is not a bad idea either way. Think about the amount of years they have been working. Reaction time and spray patterns on the new injectors would be superior. http://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Parts/BM ... 73272.html
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:20 pm

TBM wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:11 pm
Song,

If you have the OEM radiator with the crimped tanks that is a prime suspect as well. I had a really good radiator shop take mine apart check the internals and crimp it back.
Radiator was replaced with a Nissen unit the first week I got the car. That’s just over 2 years ago. I’ll keep an eye out, but it’s low on the suspect list.
Last edited by songzunhuang on Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by sansouci » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:29 pm

Song,
I don't know if you park inside a garage, but the $12 drip pan from Walmart is helpful in keeping things tidy as well as trying to locate leaks:

Product TitleATP Large Oil Drip Pan
Average rating:4.4118out of5stars, based on51reviews(51)ratings
Price
$11.97
Pickup Only
Show only ATP items
Product Spec
Galvanized steelMany usesBiggest drip pan available
FREE PICKUP TODAY

Also, from your pic, the bottom hose clamp on the old fat one doesn't look like it's in the right place.
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 535i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by 86_6series » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:30 pm

+1 on the pressure tester.
Eliminates the guesswork.

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:08 pm

sansouci wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:29 pm
Song,
I don't know if you park inside a garage, but the $12 drip pan from Walmart is helpful in keeping things tidy as well as trying to locate leaks:

Product TitleATP Large Oil Drip Pan
Average rating:4.4118out of5stars, based on51reviews(51)ratings
Price
$11.97
Pickup Only
Show only ATP items
Product Spec
Galvanized steelMany usesBiggest drip pan available
FREE PICKUP TODAY

Also, from your pic, the bottom hose clamp on the old fat one doesn't look like it's in the right place.
The car is outside. I can see little spots in our dyed concrete driveway, much to the alarm of my wife. These little spots are inconclusive. They are small and all over the place! Lol.

Today, I had to turn around and go back home as the car puked up a ton of coolant after the temp warning light lit up! I actually removed the thermostat housing and checked the thermostat on the the side of the road. It looked fine. Luckily for me, I pulled over at a Caltrain staging area so there was a porta potty with a hand wash station. That station had gallons of water. 😏 I used some to refill the coolant and drive home.

So, this weekend I’ll get to replace hoses and check the cooling system again. Sigh - so annoying.

Finally, your comment on a picture where the hose seems to be in the wrong place? I can’t resolve that comment with what I see. I didn’t swap any hose placements and I’ve driven the car for thousands of miles in the current hose configuration. I’d be surprised if it was totally wrong.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by hornhospital » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:45 pm

songzunhuang wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:08 pm

Finally, your comment on a picture where the hose seems to be in the wrong place? I can’t resolve that comment with what I see. I didn’t swap any hose placements and I’ve driven the car for thousands of miles in the current hose configuration. I’d be surprised if it was totally wrong.
Song, he said the hose CLAMP appeared to be in the wrong place, not the hose. Your center photo shows the clamp well off the large end of the hose. It should be where the second line is in this edited shot, unless that's some sort of boot over the hose. ???.
Attachments
Hose clamp.JPG
Hose clamp.JPG (43.79 KiB) Viewed 729 times
Ken Kanne
'84 633CSi "Sylvia"; '85 635CSi "Katja";'87 325is "Odette"; '93 325is "Elvira"

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by sansouci » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:19 pm

Mr. Kanne,
You are correctamundo as to what I meant. Your artistic embellishment is spot on.
--Ken
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 535i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:19 am

sansouci wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:19 pm
Mr. Kanne,
You are correctamundo as to what I meant. Your artistic embellishment is spot on.
--Ken
Interesting, I'll take a look at that later. I've never had any issues from that junction so I never looked more closely. Of course, I've nothing to compare it to. Thanks for the heads up. BTW - that's one hose I haven't replaced. Maybe it's a sign...
-----
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1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Phantom Coolant Leak - the fun continues

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:51 am

If you have been following along, you'll know that I am tracking down a phantom leak that's been going on for weeks and then last week, my car decides to overheat! It's been quite the mystery.

First, here's a clue to the origin of the leak (or leaks). At the front of my oil pan, you can see a few droplets have settled after my car sat overnight. You can also see the traces of streaks of coolant that must have been pushed back by the wind. So I know I have one slow leak originating from the bundle of hose connections around the thermostat.
Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 7.19.37 PM.png
Evidence of leaks from above.
Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 7.19.37 PM.png (848.74 KiB) Viewed 666 times
Now, I have a co-worker who keeps telling me that he thinks it's a bad head gasket. He has been telling me this so much that I started to get a bit paranoid. So, I decided to change the oil and look for signs of coolant in the oil. Crossing my fingers, I drained the oil and ... thank goodness there's no sign of anything but oil in the oil. I also installed an ECS magnetic oil drain plug just for good measure (you can see it in the previous picture)
Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 7.19.51 PM.png
Nothing but oil drained out. This is a good thing.
Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 7.19.51 PM.png (759.97 KiB) Viewed 666 times
Next, it was time to replace the non-OEM hoses. This particular hose was a EURO. I've never had good luck with these hoses. I kept getting moisture at the junction (at the plastic T under the manifold), but I was never quite sure if it was coming from the junction or just settling there as it was the low point. Well, time to eliminate any issues. I replaced it with an OEM BMW hose. Here's the two side by side and you can really see how they are different. The non-OEM hose (bottom) never fit snug at the ends. I had to tighten the heck out of the clamp. In fact the right side was so loose that I cut the end off to get to a smaller part. Still you can see as compared to the OEM hose, it is still too wide. Well, good riddance to that hose.
Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 7.20.11 PM.png
OEM hose at top, crap EURO hose at the bottom.
Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 7.20.11 PM.png (753.04 KiB) Viewed 666 times
Just for completeness, I also replaced the main hose from the thermostat housing. Just because I was so tired of the crap, I also ordered all new BMW hose clamps! I noticed that the aftermarket stainless clamps I had been using was cutting into the hose. The slots for the screws would start to cut the hose when I had them super tight. I noticed on the OEM clamps, the threads for the screws to tighten the hose are stamped into the band. The holes do not go all the way through so no matter how tight they get, the do not cut into the hose. I hope that made sense.
Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 7.20.28 PM.png
All OEM hoses from now on.
Screen Shot 2017-10-22 at 7.20.28 PM.png (578.18 KiB) Viewed 666 times
Incidentally, I as I was testing the system, I noticed that the small hose from the top of the radiator to the expansion tank had some blockage. I blew it out and made sure that was clear. After all the work, I idled the car in place for 15 minutes and it was fine. Then I drove the car around town about 7 miles. Still it was fine. So I hopped on the freeway and drove about 20 miles to and then back into town idling around a bit. All was good. So, I hope I have somehow remedied the overheating and the leak. I'll find out more this week as I use the car for my daily commute (50 miles each day) once again.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Overheating fixed, leak still happening...

Post by songzunhuang » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:58 pm

Just checking in for those following along.
I've been commuting all week in the e24. It's been a rough commute week with several days of 2-3 hours on the road stuck in traffic jams. So after over 225 miles, the car has yet to show any sign of overheating. I can proclaim the overheating issue resolved, although I can't say exactly what resolved it.

However, I am sad to report that the phantom coolant leak is still present. It has gotten a little less severe as I only lose about a cup of coolant for each hour drive, but it is definitely there. I don't have a way to pressure test the system so I may ultimately have to take it to a shop. I count my blessings that it's at lease fully drivable. I just have to keep an eye on the coolant level.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:00 pm

hornhospital wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:45 pm
songzunhuang wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:08 pm

Finally, your comment on a picture where the hose seems to be in the wrong place? I can’t resolve that comment with what I see. I didn’t swap any hose placements and I’ve driven the car for thousands of miles in the current hose configuration. I’d be surprised if it was totally wrong.
Song, he said the hose CLAMP appeared to be in the wrong place, not the hose. Your center photo shows the clamp well off the large end of the hose. It should be where the second line is in this edited shot, unless that's some sort of boot over the hose. ???.
I did get chance to look into this and that big bulgy part is actually a rubber cover and not the hose. I don't know why my clamp is in the location it is, but it's definitely not leaking so I am leaving it alone for now.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Turning it over to the Pros...

Post by songzunhuang » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:55 am

Today I took my car to the Catalpa street garage in Santa Cruz. This weekend I noticed the white smoke coming out of the exhaust and I continued to lose coolant at a rate of about 2 cups per 50 miles. I don't have time to mess with a head gasket replacement and I need a car to drive.
Screen Shot 2017-10-31 at 5.47.00 PM.png
My e24 (far left) waiting to see the doctor.
Screen Shot 2017-10-31 at 5.47.00 PM.png (749.91 KiB) Viewed 452 times
They pressure tested the motor and sure enough, they see evidence of cylinder #6 leak. It's really slow, but it's there. The estimate to remove the head is $600. The testing of the cylinder head for cracks and to true it up is $150. They will use Victor Reinz gaskets. I'll get a call in about 1-2 days with the prognosis on the head. If it's not cracked, the final tally will be close to $2,000. If it is cracked, we enter a whole new world of hurt. This is not making me happy.

As many of you know, a complete head gasket kit is less than $80. It's all labor. I wish I had time to do this. Alas it is not going to happen.

While it was there, I thought I would ask about a transmission fluid and filter change. They quoted $400-500! What!? They have to drop the engine support member or something like that to get the tranny pan off? Whose design was this? Crazy. I may defer this for another day.

Meanwhile, I wait for the head gasket and cylinder head prognosis. Now this car is getting real expensive...
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by dwcains » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:08 am

It's been several decades since I worked on a '85 535i auto trans, but I don't remember those complications in changing the transmission fluid. I did a full service for a friend, and I just recall dropping the pan, as on any other car. Since the E28 and E24 are so similar, you may want to get a second opinion.
Dean
Lutz, FL

'85 635 CSi Euro #9402254
'87 Spider Veloce
'92 Spider Veloce
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by dwcains » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:59 am

Factory service manual confirms what I said above:

http://www.malloc.nl/BMW/635CSi/pages/e ... l#refertoc
Dean
Lutz, FL

'85 635 CSi Euro #9402254
'87 Spider Veloce
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by TBM » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:42 am

dwcains wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:59 am
Factory service manual confirms what I said above:

http://www.malloc.nl/BMW/635CSi/pages/e ... l#refertoc
Nice catch Dean!
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:02 am

dwcains wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:59 am
Factory service manual confirms what I said above:

http://www.malloc.nl/BMW/635CSi/pages/e ... l#refertoc
Scratching my head. I asked them about a transmission fluid and filter change. That reference I just looked at appears to be for an oil pan? Am I confused?
-----
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1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by TBM » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:06 am

songzunhuang wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:02 am
dwcains wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:59 am
Factory service manual confirms what I said above:

http://www.malloc.nl/BMW/635CSi/pages/e ... l#refertoc
Scratching my head. I asked them about a transmission fluid and filter change. That reference I just looked at appears to be for an oil pan? Am I confused?
No Song..That is the oil pan for the transmission.
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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