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Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

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GazM3
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by GazM3 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:37 pm

Interesting direction change. Can understand to look group A with the intake but using ITB you would gain some serious power after 5000rpm. It would turn your 300bhp m30 into a 400bhp m30. Don’t the group2 e24 run m30 with ITB.

Also a company called RHD just doveloped a bolt in ITB “kit” so no more chasing unobtainable Paul Burke ITB adaptors.
BMW’s
74 2002 2.3ltr
84 E24 M635csi
94 E34 540i/6 SC
97 E36 M3 euro SC U/C

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VintageRacer
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by VintageRacer » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:26 am

So I finally got around to doing a prototype adapter plate and managed to get a tko adapted to an M30. I posted the pictures to my Instagram account @rapidterrier.
Last edited by VintageRacer on Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

VintageRacer
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by VintageRacer » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:29 pm

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Shipper 01
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by Shipper 01 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:40 am

Vintage,

I had my M30 race engine built by Pip Barker from the JPS racing team. He guarantees 330hp with the stock M30B34. No internal dimensional changes permitted, stock Group A only. Mine is taken to 3.6 litres, has Group C pistons, S14 Rods, a B35 head all ported and with combustion chamber work and big 314 degree CatCams. Dyno is actually tomorrow onwards and with triple 45 DCOE's we are hoping 330hp to 350hp. With 50DCOE's it would probably run to 370hp although be less drive-able. So I believe you'll get 300 plus hp.

My current engine is here. https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/show ... acer/page6

I forgot to ask, what's faster? The jag or the bimmer??

VintageRacer
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by VintageRacer » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:40 am

The Jag is heavier but has a lot more torque with the V12. The BMW does turn faster lap times at Road America. We'll be running at COTA in a few weeks and I expect the BMW to do a bit better with the high revving S38. I've been keeping the rev limiter at 6000 to preserve the motor but I'm going to bump it up to 6750 for the COTA race.

I'd love to have someone like that build up my motor but shipping a motor down to Oz and back would be cost prohibitive.

Do you happen to have the cam card specs for the group A cam and the piston specs? So far I'm just guessing on the compression ratio and cams basically going as big as possible and high as 110 race gas will allow to make the most power but I'd like to get as close to Group A spec as possible,

Shipper 01
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by Shipper 01 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:12 pm

Vint,

I can get them for you if you want. Although the CatCam 314 grind is said to be an almost direct replacement for the Group A and single valve Group C cam. See here; http://www.catcams.co.uk/acatalog/BMW_M ... gines.html

The catcams are apparently ground in Belgium so are not a shelf item.

Significant work is done to the combustion chamber and this is crucial to big hp. Funnily enough huge compression is not required to get the best hp possible. We see it all the time on line but Pip usually states 10.5 to 11.5 :1 is sufficient. Prior to finishing my engine he re-freshened up the spare engine for a JPS Group A car bought by someone in the USA. Again he needs to guarantee 330hp and appears to always achieve it.

An engine by Pip, as of today costs around AUD $13.5k. Postage would be upwards of AUD$1k. For this you get a $25k engine with original Group A & C parts along with a modern B35 head. If you decide to stroke it like I did or, increase capacity then you are looking closer to 370hp with a stand alone ECU. It may even be more. There are 4 litre stroker kits available here in Australia.

My pistons were sold to a mate of Pips back in the 80's when Australia went from Group C to the World Group A configuration. Best thing we ever did in racing. In building my engine last year he called his mate up in NZ and bought them back for the same price he sold them for in the 80's. The original JPS head guy living in Canberra does the combustion chambers. When he's gone that art will be lost.

Anyway, let me know what specs you are after and I can chase them down for you. Love that M635CSi. You should be able to take it to 7250rpm. My endurance S38B38 that is currently idol on the bench dyno will apparently be taken to 8500rpm. I do have the benefit of the dyno guy being the engine builder however and knowing what's going on inside.

Edit: Just had results back from the dyno guy. 347hp at flywheel. 38mm/39mm conical chokes in the 45 DCOE's. Could have gone up to 41mm as engine power lineal to 6800rpm but then dropped off. Redline is 7200rpm. Engine had no dips. Loved the 38 chokes and corresponding jets so that's where she stays. Then called Pip Barker (JPS racing team mechanic) who notes that when the first Group C engines came out from Germany there was one put together and two in parts. The head race engine builder from Germany came out and spent time with Pip dyno'ing the engine in Grice's garage (Grice is a famous and very successful Group C and Group A Australian touring car driver). Apparently when it went on the bench dyno it did not even make 300hp. This is the single cam Group C engine. It has the M1 bottom end so can go to 8000rpm. Pip and the BMW Germany engine specialist fiddled with it for two weeks and eventually ended up with 350hp (changed pump settings, timing, everything they could). Grice was hoping for 380hp as the M1's were running 475hp with the twin cam head but identical bottom end. The BMW Germany guy said "don't worry about it, wait until it is in the car, it will be a rocket. Grice was apparently very sceptical'. After completion of testing Grice stated that it felt like it had 400hp and was delighted with the results. Funnily enough, pistons from the Group C spare parts shelf in Grice's garage back in the early 80's are now in my engine.

Vint; Pip said go a steel crank as you can take the engine to 8000rpm.

VintageRacer
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by VintageRacer » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:11 am

The crank in my 4.0L S38 is a billet steel piece with forged Pauter rods so I'm hoping it should be stout!

I'll shoot you a PM but I'm thinking that having Pip build the engine may not be a bad idea, need to mull it over and see if the bank (wife) will approve.

VintageRacer
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by VintageRacer » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:02 pm

Well I finally got around to solving another issue with the race car. RAIN! I've got amazing Continental GT rain tires but in July at Road America it rained and the visibility was terrible, even with Rain-X. I'm doing two things to solve this, a single wiper like the original car and an interior blower/defog. I haven't gotten around to the blower yet but I finished the wiper this weekend.

I didn't want to mess with modifying the original linkage so I did a bit of research and found that you can get a marine wiper motor that mounts with a simple L bracket. It is fully adjustable in sweep up to 110 degrees and parking position (left or right). It is two speed and heavy duty, perfect for a race car. You also need an arm since it's a 5/8" spline and they make one that is adjustable from 12-18" and you can adjust the blade angle. I used a standard 21" wiper blade but I think the motor is rated for up to a 22". I got all the parts on Amazon. The motor and blade are made by Ongaro Marine.
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Shipper 01
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by Shipper 01 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:59 am

I need to do this for my E3 race car.

Can you post more pics, or pm me further details.

Current twin wipers on the E3 are 90% useless and 10% hopeless.

VintageRacer
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by VintageRacer » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:18 pm

I don't have any more pictures right now but here is what I used.

Ongaro Heavy Duty 1.5" 2-Speed Wiper Motor - 12V - You can get it with a 1.5 or 2.5" long shaft. I then made a spacer on the lathe out of nylon to place over the shaft and used the retaining nut to mount the motor where the OE wiper stalk came through. Next I made a small "L" bracket to secure it to the firewall. This took a bit of trial and error to get the spacing correct.

For the arm I used Ongaro Deluxe Ultra HD Adjustable Arm w/J Hook Tip - 12-18". This is great because it can allow the arm length to adjust and pivot to get the sweep you want.

I used a standard Walmart 21" blade.

I'll try to get more pictures this week. I don't have it wired just yet but the specs for the motor indicate it can handle up to a 22" blade. I figure this combined with Rain-X should do the trick.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by VintageRacer » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:23 pm

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Centerlocks!

VintageRacer
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by VintageRacer » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:35 pm

We did however warp the two front rotors and glazed the pads. We are having Coleman Racing make up a new set that will be gas vented and stress relieved with a full
Floating T slot rotor and custom billet hat. We will also likely swap from the ST-41 to a more rotor friendly ST-43 compound.
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TBM
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by TBM » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:49 am

VintageRacer wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:35 pm
We did however warp the two front rotors and glazed the pads. We are having Coleman Racing make up a new set that will be gas vented and stress relieved with a full
Floating T slot rotor and custom billet hat. We will also likely swap from the ST-41 to a more rotor friendly ST-43 compound.

613A6CCC-EDCF-4CDD-A224-02DBCCC4B07E.jpeg
The stress relief is ok at best... if you want better heat dissipation, longevity as well as stress relief you need to cryo treat them...ask me how i know...
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

VintageRacer
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by VintageRacer » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:43 am

Yep cryo will also help. I don't think I was honestly fully ready for the brake demands of COTA. The car was hitting upwards of 150+ on the long straight going into turn 12 which is tight and I was hauling it down to about 45. I also need to add brake ducts and some other toys to help cooling. My dad's XJS is 500lbs heavier and running the Coleman Rotors with no issues. They make excellent stuff.

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jps635
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by jps635 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:14 am

Check out the Aussie V8 Supercars - they run an AP package
'85 635csi JPS (RA2-66)

VintageRacer
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by VintageRacer » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:28 pm

Yep I’ve seen those cars. They run carbon carbon brakes similar to those on the newer Porsche and Ferrari’s. I have to stick to what was on the FIA papers in 1984 and that’s a 332mm disc made out of iron or steel.

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MrE
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Re: Updating an M635csi Track Car to a Race Car

Post by MrE » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:35 am

VintageRacer wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:23 pm
Image
Centerlocks!
That looks awesome.
Image

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