orval2 - BMW M635CSI

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orval2
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by orval2 »

sansouci wrote:What would you plan to do at BMW Classic in Munich? I didn't know they do actual work, just thought they were a parts supplier.....
--Ken
They do everything as a BMW dealer. They also do complete restoration (see the Elvis' 507).
Before, they were doing it only for BMW museum, then 4-5 years ago they opened their services to the public.
Actually my M635 was one of their first public cars they worked on.
I will probably bring my car there to have the motor (256.000 kms) rebuilt. I haven't no yet made my final decision
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Stoffie
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by Stoffie »

If you are planning a full rebuild, I hope you have at least 15K laying around...having it done at BMW Classic would probably be even more expensive :shock:
The M88/3 was all about power, no cats. At idle the raw fuel from the exhaust will make your eyes water like an old V-8 powered muscle car's exhaust did.
orval2
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by orval2 »

Stoffie wrote:If you are planning a full rebuild, I hope you have at least 15K laying around...having it done at BMW Classic would probably be even more expensive :shock:
That was the case 4years ago. When a swap with them was around 8-9000 €. A rebuild was around 30.000€ !!!!
Now they are playing in the same range as "your local mechanics". I will give the cost estimations once confirmed.
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by orval2 »

Hello, I got the confirmation parts and workman time are included in the estimation.
So it is now around the third price of the one given in 2013.
No sandblasting of the motor, but it does not need it. And it makes a big save.

It should be now around 8 to 11000€ + taxes.

I sent an email to have an appointment at the repair center in Munich.

I choose them because they are in the same range price as any good motor specialist. They use only OEM parts. They remember me and my car. They are very friendly and open-minded. They have consideration to everybody (simple owner as me or rich emirate).
It is a big plus for the expertise of the car.
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by GazM3 »

Rebuilding the engine will make a big difference and prices seem pretty reasonable. The dillema always with our engine is whether to build to factory spec or take the extra 100bhp that's sitting on the table upgrading mainly the cams and compression.

Quality aftermarket upgraded parts are probably more cost effective than OEM originals. The only additional cost would be replacing the 055 dme with an aftermarket computer that will work with the upgrades. Upgrading the computer on a OEM spec build also makes sence
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84 E24 M635csi
90 E34 M5 3.6
94 E34 540i/6 SC E85
97 E36 M3 euro SC U/C
97 Z3 2.8 widebody

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orval2
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by orval2 »

GazM3 wrote:Rebuilding the engine will make a big difference and prices seem pretty reasonable. The dillema always with our engine is whether to build to factory spec or take the extra 100bhp that's sitting on the table upgrading mainly the cams and compression.

Quality aftermarket upgraded parts are probably more cost effective than OEM originals. The only additional cost would be replacing the 055 dme with an aftermarket computer that will work with the upgrades. Upgrading the computer on a OEM spec build also makes sence
I was thinking to upgrade the motor. But, I want to keep the original one. As it has 256.000 kms (european, not US highway), I must preserve it. Not sure increasing its power would be helpful. Also, to drive the car on the roads, it is already powerful enough.
Upgrading it would probably more expansive. I should find someone who knows what he does in my area, not easy (despite I have a name, but already more expansive then BMW with OEM parts).
Also, my wife is always coming with me in the car, and a baby soon.
The drivetrain upgrade I have done already give me satisfaction in the corners, where I like to drive fast.

Finally, I know me a bit, with a 350HP, I would not manage it at all. Maybe the motor now deserve a bit more respect. The car is becoming a classical.

But I do agree, it is a dilema.
orval2
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by orval2 »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5oq7Z4O4bk

Last summer I drove the car on Spa-Francorchamps. Here is a view from a Nismo 370Z who was following me. I did two sessions. It was the first and definitively the slowest one. (too much traffic). As you can see, it was not that slow. That Nismo was close to hit me to overtake me as I let his friend overtaken me.

Second session, I was in the front, so no traffic and I was overtaking more recent cars, not all driven to their maximum. But I wasn't too as I am not a pilot.
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by ///Moe »

Wish I could go there one day :-)
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by GazM3 »

Yes it's always a dilemma. 350bhp would be very streetable. Increasing compression to say the low 11's with new pistons, slotting the cam wheels to make them adjustable, upgrading the crank hub (OEM is borderline at over 7000rpm and an improved engine managment would get pretty close to 320-350bhp. It would have better manners than stock and u could make power all the way to 7500rpm. Adding the m30b35 crank (86mm stroke) would give 3.65ltrs and give some more torque.

Don't forget the m88 is a detuned 480bhp race engine so 350bhp and modest rpm won't stress it too much. And for the purist thing the engine will look exactly the same. Oh perhaps for replacing te air meter with a maf or deleting it altogether.
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84 E24 M635csi
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97 E36 M3 euro SC U/C
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by TBM »

There are principals in creating more HP for any motor. Any real builder has to use many parameters to make a lot more HP. VIBRATION is an engine killer. The crank hub cracks because it is mild steel and the motor is long. The crank Oscillates and wants to grenade the motor above a certain RPM. Firstly, anyone whom wants to create a lot more HP should buy one of these: http://vibrationfree.co.uk/sterling-rat ... ler-works/. Then you have to balance the entire motor to the flywheel. Gas flow from the headers (read: shape of collector and length) is equally important in scavenging exhaust gases that make even more HP. I know from a fellow that actually reducing the bore of the ITB's will actually help in atomization and velocity of intake charge. Looking into At-power ITB's will help in the top end quite a lot. I'm simplifying a lot but that's why when you put all this effort to make a lot more HP you have to pay big $$$. There aren't a lot go guys that can detail a motor out this way.
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orval2
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by orval2 »

My car is now at Munich. At BMW Classic workshop.

Last ride with the car, a little bit of snow

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On the way to Munich. Some salty roads leads to a salty face. the car will be cleaned at arrival at BMW Classic.

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Arrival at the workshop

Image[/quote]

With some other nices BMW (nicer than mine)


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Soperman
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by Soperman »

Fantastic photos, Renaud, and thank you for sharing.
It is not likely that a local BMW dealer will be working on McLaren F1 GTR! And was that another E24 M635 on the ramp behind you?

What work is BMW Classic doing to your car? How long will it take?
I will ask you how much it costs another time.
E24 M635CSi
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Stoffie
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by Stoffie »

Driving through Germany with summer tires in winter...playing with fire! :D

It's so cool anyone can have their car done by BMW Classic! I'll be once again interested to hear your experiences. How long will she be there ?
The M88/3 was all about power, no cats. At idle the raw fuel from the exhaust will make your eyes water like an old V-8 powered muscle car's exhaust did.
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by Ronnie Wilson »

Wow :shock: =D>
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Shipper 01
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by Shipper 01 »

TBM wrote:There are principals in creating more HP for any motor. Any real builder has to use many parameters to make a lot more HP. VIBRATION is an engine killer. The crank hub cracks because it is mild steel and the motor is long. The crank Oscillates and wants to grenade the motor above a certain RPM. Firstly, anyone whom wants to create a lot more HP should buy one of these: http://vibrationfree.co.uk/sterling-rat ... ler-works/. Then you have to balance the entire motor to the flywheel. Gas flow from the headers (read: shape of collector and length) is equally important in scavenging exhaust gases that make even more HP. I know from a fellow that actually reducing the bore of the ITB's will actually help in atomization and velocity of intake charge. Looking into At-power ITB's will help in the top end quite a lot. I'm simplifying a lot but that's why when you put all this effort to make a lot more HP you have to pay big $$$. There aren't a lot go guys that can detail a motor out this way.
The M1 pro cars ran to 495hp but, ran a 146mm conrods. The Group C M88 ran to 420hp and needed a stock length conrods and stock bore, compression and piston size. These engines don't benefit from huge increases in compression. Anything over 11:1 will see negligible to no gains. Big CAMS work well along with stand along ECU's and performance valves, springs, crank etc.

My S38B38 now has 293/279 CAT CAMS and performance valves and springs. Anything bigger than this cam size and you will lose low down torque. It will run a Megasquirt MS3-PRO. With forged pistons and head work we are hoping for 390 to 400hp. Just awaiting a tuning slot now at the dyno shop. The new cams have so big an increase in valve lift that the cams did not turn in the cam box and we needed to modify the cam box.

Image

Image
orval2
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by orval2 »

Soperman wrote:Fantastic photos, Renaud, and thank you for sharing.
It is not likely that a local BMW dealer will be working on McLaren F1 GTR! And was that another E24 M635 on the ramp behind you?

What work is BMW Classic doing to your car? How long will it take?
I will ask you how much it costs another time.
I have not being close to the other E24. We were late, just before the closing. But, yes I do think it is a M635csi

Otherwise, I am not in hurry and I will have my car back in April or May. But I had to bring it in January or February. and as February is colder than January I took the risk to drive the car last week.
The motor will be rebuild in the OEM specification. My budget is limited and the original horsepower is enough for me and the roads in Belgium.

By the way, to arrive on time we drove at more than 160 km/h at the end, following some 335i or other fast car. My daily car was having difficulties to follow the E24. so the motor is still not too bad I presume. And no smoke at all during the travel and no oil consumption (while time to time it smokes...). Strange car. Maybe she was happy to go back to Munich.

Costs are the same as any BMW dealers and mechanics specialist (for motor rebuild). that's why I choose to go back to Munich Classic. The expertised value than is more with a visit at BMW Classic
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by MrE »

That's fantastic. Image

I did not know that BMW offered a restoration service like this, on the older classics like ours. Looks like you had a great journey with the car getting there, it'll be good to see it again when the work is done and you get it back.
Image
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by Shipper 01 »

orval2 wrote:
Soperman wrote:Fantastic photos, Renaud, and thank you for sharing.
It is not likely that a local BMW dealer will be working on McLaren F1 GTR! And was that another E24 M635 on the ramp behind you?

What work is BMW Classic doing to your car? How long will it take?
I will ask you how much it costs another time.
I have not being close to the other E24. We were late, just before the closing. But, yes I do think it is a M635csi

Otherwise, I am not in hurry and I will have my car back in April or May. But I had to bring it in January or February. and as February is colder than January I took the risk to drive the car last week.
The motor will be rebuild in the OEM specification. My budget is limited and the original horsepower is enough for me and the roads in Belgium.

By the way, to arrive on time we drove at more than 160 km/h at the end, following some 335i or other fast car. My daily car was having difficulties to follow the E24. so the motor is still not too bad I presume. And no smoke at all during the travel and no oil consumption (while time to time it smokes...). Strange car. Maybe she was happy to go back to Munich.

Costs are the same as any BMW dealers and mechanics specialist (for motor rebuild). that's why I choose to go back to Munich Classic. The expertised value than is more with a visit at BMW Classic
Is it just mechanical work they restore or do they restore exterior and interior as well? New dash, door cards, carpets, trim, lights??

Sounds like a great service.
orval2
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by orval2 »

Shipper 01 wrote:
orval2 wrote:
Soperman wrote:Fantastic photos, Renaud, and thank you for sharing.
It is not likely that a local BMW dealer will be working on McLaren F1 GTR! And was that another E24 M635 on the ramp behind you?

What work is BMW Classic doing to your car? How long will it take?
I will ask you how much it costs another time.
I have not being close to the other E24. We were late, just before the closing. But, yes I do think it is a M635csi

Otherwise, I am not in hurry and I will have my car back in April or May. But I had to bring it in January or February. and as February is colder than January I took the risk to drive the car last week.
The motor will be rebuild in the OEM specification. My budget is limited and the original horsepower is enough for me and the roads in Belgium.

By the way, to arrive on time we drove at more than 160 km/h at the end, following some 335i or other fast car. My daily car was having difficulties to follow the E24. so the motor is still not too bad I presume. And no smoke at all during the travel and no oil consumption (while time to time it smokes...). Strange car. Maybe she was happy to go back to Munich.

Costs are the same as any BMW dealers and mechanics specialist (for motor rebuild). that's why I choose to go back to Munich Classic. The expertised value than is more with a visit at BMW Classic
Is it just mechanical work they restore or do they restore exterior and interior as well? New dash, door cards, carpets, trim, lights??

Sounds like a great service.
They can do all you want. They can make you a "new" car till the last screw, litteraly
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by Roku35 »

orval2 wrote:
They can do all you want. They can make you a "new" car till the last screw, litteraly
Sweeeet! Can you feel our jealousy? Looking forward to more posts of your M635csi project. I will certainly be watching... :shock:
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orval2
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by orval2 »

Roku35 wrote:
orval2 wrote:
They can do all you want. They can make you a "new" car till the last screw, litteraly
Sweeeet! Can you feel our jealousy? Looking forward to more posts of your M635csi project. I will certainly be watching... :shock:
Mine won't be new to the last screw. I have not even taken the sandblasting option for my motor. Only the inside
And I will still have work to do on my car (body)
orval2
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by orval2 »

this is how my motor looks like right now.
I got the confirmation it is a matching number. (256000 kms !)

Image

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Image
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Stoffie
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by Stoffie »

Awesome! It's great they actually send you pictures of the process/progress. Or did you go back there to have a look ?
The M88/3 was all about power, no cats. At idle the raw fuel from the exhaust will make your eyes water like an old V-8 powered muscle car's exhaust did.
orval2
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by orval2 »

Stoffie wrote:Awesome! It's great they actually send you pictures of the process/progress. Or did you go back there to have a look ?
They send me pictures.
I will go back only to pickup the car
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Re: orval2 - BMW M635CSI

Post by ron »

Do you know what model the starter motor is? It looks totally different to mine.
They are ALWAYS rustier than you thought!!!!!!
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