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1980 635CSi Euro

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tschultz
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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by tschultz » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:16 pm

I bled the brakes with ATE Typ 200 high performance brake fluid and changed pads for the first time ever on this car. The old style is a lot quicker and easier to replace pads than on the e28 based cars. Mainly because you don't have to remove the caliper and work on it while it is still connected via the brake line. Even after 20k miles they had tons of life left (and are now my backup pads. Conveniently the fronts also work as backups for my M5). I replaced them with Porterfield R4-S street/track pads. I am hoping they perform well for me at a lapping day this weekend. Topbrakes.com was a great resource as they are one of the few sites that allows you a few options for brake pads for the E12 based cars. The early euro shares pads with the e12 and e23 interestingly enough.
The turbo car has a blow by issue and I don't think it would be safe to abuse it currently. I figure why not try the 635 and dogleg at the track. Unfortunately, I don't think it has a limited slip (if it does, it is worn out). So I also installed by BBS RS wheels last night (they have the summer tires) as well as my 360mm steering wheel.

I should have some pics and videos to share sometime next week.

Oh and in my research I found out that along with taillights, the front brake pads are the same as the fronts for the M1. I'll be sure to keeps these pads as a backup set in case I ever stumble upon one of those :lol: :mrgreen:
Last edited by tschultz on Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by tschultz » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:08 pm

Had a great day at the track and the car was slightly faster than my 535i o the same track and very similar conditions. I was quite happy considering it was all stock.

Here's a video following my brother and another E30 on track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBUVdG5p9is

And another with a few laps in a row with the E30's following me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPS6htybvV4


I was bummed the sound didn't work but oh well. I had a radiator cap seal go bad on me so it effectively ended my day. I got part way home but it ended up boiling since the cap didn't seal.

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And a carbureted 633 euro. Didn't get out on the track at the same time as him but it has been lightened as well.

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I'll try to post more photos or video if my brother got any.

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by downforce22 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:17 am


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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by tschultz » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:35 pm

Thanks! It leans a lot more than my turbo car but I don't believe that the e12 chassis handles worse than the E28 chassis. After this experience, stock out of the box, I would argue an E28 635 handles worse than the E12 635 (euro)!

My turbo 633 with the old laggy turbo (but otherwise stock) I could hit 115 on the straight but was about a 2:26 lap. The euro I was 2-3 seconds faster per lap with the same tires but a year later!

Here's another view onboard the 325is a different part of that session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05L1mNEgeaQ

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by tschultz » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:59 pm

Some photos of the track day courtesy my brother and another friend.

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Unfortunately on the way home my coolant cap seemed to give way on the highway cruising and I lost coolant. I attempted to refill with water and continue but the same happened again, where ultimately we ended up trailering it home.

Well the first time driving it around the car started puffing white smoke as soon as I pulled into the garage :cry:

This will mean the head is going to be rebuilt with good valve guide seals and valve seats and I plan to replace the head gasket myself. I am sort of looking forward to the challenge of it, but am also sad about having the issue and not being able to drive it. Also, it appears my brake issue is related to a failing brake master cylinder. It will hold pressure and then suddenly get squishy until there are almost no brakes. The replacement brake master cylinder looks to be about $170 online. So those are two larger repairs I need to resolve. I am figuring it will be January before I can start on that project.

So for the moment both of my sharks are sick :cry:

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by tschultz » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:40 am

I got my garage organized with a new toolbox a few extra tools and some upgraded lighting. This gave me a bit more space on my work bench and I was tired of seeing the euro car sitting there sick.

I had been wanting to do this repair all winter as I haven't taken an engine apart before. I also was happy to be able to inspect the engine and see what it looked like inside. I hadn't known the true mileage but had driven it 20k since I bought it.

So late last week I started disassembling the engine and preparing for the head gasket swap. I haven't ordered parts yet just in case I need to get new rocker arms, valves or anything else upon closer inspection.

AFM and airbox, plenum, runners, exhaust manifolds off. Also drained the block of coolant and the radiator. You can see the fuel rail and injectors.
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This probably took the longest in my ~5 hours of disassembly. But I wanted to make sure I had the engine at TDC and understood the positioning of cams, cap and rotor and crank. I simply jacked up the back so the drivers wheel was off the ground and put the car in 5th gear. Turning the wheel turns the engine. Also note the Elring headgasket. That is OEM BMW and I suspect that the orange RTV is a headgasket replacement but I have no idea.

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I think this head is really clean from pictures on the net, but I don't have much to go off of...
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With the head off, it looks like burning coolant in cyl #6. That piston is also the one with the least amount of carbon. M90 pistons show 93.35 and are flat apparently!
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Initial brief inspection looks like no cracked valves but I haven't looked very hard and I will get it off to an expert and then likely a machinist for a slight shave (along with the front timing cover. On the right is cyl #6.

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by songzunhuang » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:43 pm

Thanks for the pictures. I love it when the big jobs are documented well. I know one day I may have to tackle these jobs and seeing it in pictures a few times inspires confidence. I'm sure I am not the only one who will be tracking this closely.

Btw - the area under your valve covers look super clean to me! When I adjusted mine, everyone was a brown/bronze. There was no buildup or anything alarming, but it seemed everything had a tint to it.

- Song
-----
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1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by zinnocoupe » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:09 pm

Tom, As you saw when I did my HG, the strangest part was getting the distributor to go back in the same spot it was before I took it out. Its still not looking the same but the car runs great so I gave up pulling it out and trying to find a different spot. And yes, the inside of that head looks super clean. It looks cleaner than mine AFTER I had it hot tanked and put everything back together :oops: That looks line the same HG than came out of the m30b32 that came out of my parts car, which I assume was the original. The M90 Victor reinz that I just put back into the engine didn't look nearly as solid or well made. Are you going to use a BMW HG? Great pics
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1979 Euro 635ci no longer a basketcase, just a running rust bucket!
1977 530i New addition ( nonrunner)
1987 635csi 60K KM Garage Queen

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tschultz
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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by tschultz » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:12 pm

That's good to hear, haha.

I just ordered a BMW genuine version from Blunttech and am hoping this means elring.
FYI early M30B32 (533/633/733 motronic) heads are the same but the cam (distributor vs cap/rotor IS different though).

I pulled the distributor out and am hoping all aligns properly. If it is a tooth or two off, simply pull out, rotate and push back in. Not that I see how timing of the engine works, you set the O|T marks, verify cyl #1 rocker arms have both riding on the low spot of the lobes. If this is true, the engine is TDC (as shown in my photos after disassembly). At this point the distributor should align with the small mark at ~5 o'clock. If it is off, the timing could be advanced or retarded slightly.
Last edited by tschultz on Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by zinnocoupe » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:18 pm

Well, I have fooled around with the distributor for ages. After making sure the engine was at TDC, cam lobes correct etc. There seems to be two spots or teeth that the distributor slides into. The first spot the whole distributor seems to be rotated too far to the rear of the car, the second spot too far to the front of the car. But I am assuming maybe its because it was in the wrong spot in the first place. Who knows what the PO was up to. I seem to remember him saying he played with the distributor and he also had a two foot long philips screwdriver that he used to adjust the throttle body. The screwdriver came with the car. Not sure why he used such a long one HAha. Anyway the car runs really well, idles great, midrange and higher speed seems good. So I think its OK. I set the timing with a light after a little messing around.
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1979 Euro 635ci no longer a basketcase, just a running rust bucket!
1977 530i New addition ( nonrunner)
1987 635csi 60K KM Garage Queen

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by tschultz » Sat May 20, 2017 8:02 pm

Another update,

While the head was off and getting worked on, I was able to replace the brake master cylinder with a new one. I think I got a fair price for $183 new plus shipping. Most places online have the E12 master listed for $220+ and the rebuild is $125. Didn't take a picture but will with everything back together.

When the head was apart my guy took a couple photos to identify the cam.there is a lot of mystery out there about the M90 and I think it is partially due to the specific cam.
Mike, and anyone else who cares about this issue. I took my M90 cam and my early b32 cam into a local cam grinding shop. The lift was identical on them both but the duration was less on the B32. The tech at the shop said" the B32 cam is wimpier" Anyway he welded more metal onto the worn lobe and reground the whole thing. Hopefully I'll have the engine back together soon. If it ever stops snowing here. Thx again for you're help Mike
The number is stamped in the back of the cam. If the cam is installed in a head, if you pull the plate for the duck gasket, you can see it there. I was told that M90s had a #3 cam but the evidence above suggests otherwise. Also the four #3 cams I have definitely all came from 530s. I may actually take one of each to get measured but it's not top priority. Comparing the two side by side, it does look like the 7 has a less-aggressive ramp than the 3 but I couldn't visibly tell if the lift was any different.
Cam casting #'s:
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I finally got the head back reassembled. It took longer than expected but I was able to get away with a 3 angle valve grind and a head that is basically in brand new condition. I didn't replace the camshaft or all of the rocker arms, but they were all well within spec for reassembly.

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I decided against taking everything apart and blasting or refinishing parts as I want to get it running well again and don't see the point since this car isn't anywhere close to a show car.

I did clean these parts but didn't get them sparkling clean. Here it is with the exhaust basic intake base in place. I was missing the gasket for the coolant pipe so I can't reassemble it today like I wanted.

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I am hoping to get it reinstalled sometime this week and will of course post photos as it comes along.

i will need to get feeler gauges of course and maybe a large torque wrench for the reassembly process.

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by zinnocoupe » Sun May 21, 2017 4:04 am

Nice to see you are back at it Tom. Did you get the weird fiber/metal washer on the duck gasket cover. I assume it will leak without it?
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1979 Euro 635ci no longer a basketcase, just a running rust bucket!
1977 530i New addition ( nonrunner)
1987 635csi 60K KM Garage Queen

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by tschultz » Sun May 21, 2017 1:20 pm

Yeah it's on there. Thought I had all the gaskets already! ](*,)

The head work was more pricey than I wanted but I am hoping the oil smoke issue will be totally gone after I reassemble. Some say it is the rings causing the issue, so we will see. But they told me some of the guides were loose (which could have been a cause). Switching to 15W50 helped tremendously on the oil consumption front though.

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by zinnocoupe » Sun May 21, 2017 3:02 pm

Oh, switching to 15W50? Isn't that the oil thats specified for these engines? What did you use before?
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1979 Euro 635ci no longer a basketcase, just a running rust bucket!
1977 530i New addition ( nonrunner)
1987 635csi 60K KM Garage Queen

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by tschultz » Mon May 22, 2017 2:03 am

Yeah, 20W50 is suggested. For a while I had used 10W30 and 10W40.

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by tschultz » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:53 am

Had time to get on this. Sorry for the slow update-- I had put the head back together and tried cranking the car. Unfortunately immediately heard a metallic tapping noise and left the garage frustrated. I realized I couldn't turn the engine by hand and that i had a screwed up the timing and had piston valve contact. This left me a bit fouled as I knew it would be more time and $$$ to repair my mistake, so I had the car sit. Instead, I worked on my M5 euro conversion and drove to it Drive 4 Corners in August. That event keeps me busy in preparation both pre and post event, so the 635 sat again in the garage.

Fast forward to about a month ago, I finally started getting some funds available (and more importantly, my mental state not frustrated by my mistake) to tear the car apart again to get it ready for the road.

Yes, this means I tore it down and redid the headgasket swap a second time ](*,)

What I think was the hg failure was a missing section of metal ring that eventually allowed coolant pressure to seep into the cylinder.

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The milkshake look. I really didn't drive it that far with the failure, but the coolant pressure must have seeped through.

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Coming together (although I didn't actually have the slack of the chain on the tensioner side, and my guides didn't seem to indicate this very important step!!)

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Of course disassebly looks the same so I didn't take pictures of it, but here are some pictures of the piston damage. Ignore the lubricating oil that seeped onto the piston top.

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(2nd) New HG in place

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Here are some of the photos I was going to share of the oil change prior to full reassembly.

The head reassembled with 6 new exhaust valves. Not horribly expensive, but $170 I'd rather have back (plus assembly fees).
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With engine at TDC as shown, here;s the harmonic balancer.

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Cam lobes facing down on Cyl #1

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Alignment of sprocket (this time with slack in the right place.

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Well, I assembled it and now have the car running! I got hung up last night with the Distributor timing and man, there are no good write-ups for that!

Basically you set the engine to TDC and then have the distributor out of gear engagement. You point the Rotor to the mark inside the distributor and then note the position of the arms of the spider assembly (not sure what to call it). You have to turn it about 35 degrees CCW and then slowly push the distributor in place so that when it bottoms, the rotor arm points to the distributor marking (and also cyl #1 location of the cap when it is reinstalled). Then you align the cap and place the cap back on.

Originally I must have been a tooth or two off because the engine bucked horribly and wouldn't idle. Then I adjusted it without resetting to TDC and the car just wouldn't start. It turned out i was 180degrees out on the rotor, so I reset it. I ended up another tooth off the other way and the engine was lazy to rev. Finally I resit it and the engine runs, although I think I need to finalize the tuning. hoping to drive it and have it running well on Friday.

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by ///Moe » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:04 pm

Cylinder head looks really clean 👍
E24 635CSiA 85' (garage queen)
E24 628CSiA 83' (turbo/manual?)
E23 745i 82' (turbo project)
E23 728i 86' (745i project)
E23 728i 79' (part's car) [x]
E28 525i 81' (part's car) [x]

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by zinnocoupe » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:11 am

Basically you set the engine to TDC and then have the distributor out of gear engagement. You point the Rotor to the mark inside the distributor and then note the position of the arms of the spider assembly (not sure what to call it). You have to turn it about 35 degrees CCW and then slowly push the distributor in place so that when it bottoms, the rotor arm points to the distributor marking (and also cyl #1 location of the cap when it is reinstalled). Then you align the cap and place the cap back on.
Tom, Wow sorry to hear all the trouble you've had. I certainly had a ton of messing around with trying to get the distributor back in at the correct place. I still suspect mine is not in the right place as it looks different than before I took it all apart. Can you post a pic of the distributor looking straight down at it so I can see how far its rotated front to back. ( not sure if that makes sense) . Just curious to see if its similar to where mine is placed. Glad to hear your up and running again
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1979 Euro 635ci no longer a basketcase, just a running rust bucket!
1977 530i New addition ( nonrunner)
1987 635csi 60K KM Garage Queen

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by tschultz » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:04 am

The final position is irrelevant as it all depends on where it was inserted (and the position of the cam when it was installed).

I have a guy who suggested using a timing light to fine tune it to the desired advance. I can get a picture, but let me know what you want to see-- the position of the cap relative to the head?

It seemed like the engine didn't run super smooth after wednesday and I had a light puffing of blue smoke,so I figured I needed to verify that I set the valves properly. On thursday I checked the valves again and set the clearance between the eccentric and the valve tip to -010 on the intake and .012 on the exhaust.Plugs gapped to .032. However I still had a loud ticking: https://vimeo.com/237014812

I pulled off the valve cover and found a very loose valve (#1 intake) that I thought was causing the noise. My wife gave me a lapping day certificate for my birthday and it was only valid through today, so i was working to get the car down and ready. In effort to make to the the track day, I got the valve cover off and ready to double check all 12. I woke up early and got in the garage just after 5am. I checked all 12 ans found #1 was the worst and one or two were out of spec.

I started the car and the loud ticking was gone! I felt confident enough that everything else was right that I could make it through a track day. SO i loaded up the car and departed to the track after driving the car only about 4 miles on the reassembly.

The timing certainly isn't perfect but it drove pretty well. Man was it great to get back behind the wheel and hear the exhaust note! Just driving it to the highway would have been enough of a great day for me! I made the 60 miles out to the track-- It was foggy and damp, but the car ran great and the track day was still on.

Here are some photos:
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With no ABS and an open diff on the damp track, it was sure slippery, but I had a lot of fun! You really had to search for grip and the car car was very easy to to control when it started sliding at all.

There were some sections where the water really came down a bit and my RainX worke well at clearing the windshield.

Afternoon when things started drying out:
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A turbo 528e with i head swap and china turbo.
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A friend showed up unexpectedly

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The car really is fun to drive and a great setup for the track being totally stock. I didn't have as many photos of last time, but the car looks the same :)

I took some video and may upload it if it turned out at all. I will report back with more details on timing too.

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by zinnocoupe » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:25 am

The final position is irrelevant as it all depends on where it was inserted
Right OK I think I actually figured this out when I had just finished doing my head. ( maybe with your help or Dana's) I forgot. Your car looks awesome. Must be a lot of fun. Congrats!
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1979 Euro 635ci no longer a basketcase, just a running rust bucket!
1977 530i New addition ( nonrunner)
1987 635csi 60K KM Garage Queen

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by MrE » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:04 am

Awesome! Your car looks great and I'm glad you had a good time with it out on the track. Love to see the video footage.

I've had mine at a track day once, a few years ago, and it was awesome fun to be able to hammer the car to its limits in the safety of a nice, clear racetrack and without fear of getting pulled over or slamming into gutter or something like that!

And +1 for the RainX too - I've used it and it really is impressive how effective it is.
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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by ron » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:05 pm

tschultz wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:04 am
I have a guy who suggested using a timing light to fine tune it to the desired advance. I can get a picture, but let me know what you want to see-- the position of the cap relative to the head?
Pics of my E23 735. I did the timing with a Snap-on digital timing light. 33 degrees @1800 RPM.
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They are ALWAYS rustier than you thought!!!!!!
'88 High line.
'85 M #228
'85 M #207
'80 735i

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by zinnocoupe » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:51 pm

Thx Ron. Looks very clean and tidy. I'll compare that to mine when i get it out of storage. Cheers
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1979 Euro 635ci no longer a basketcase, just a running rust bucket!
1977 530i New addition ( nonrunner)
1987 635csi 60K KM Garage Queen

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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by captain awesome » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:49 pm

Did your brother have a build thread on the 318is somewhere? I could have sworn I read one some time ago, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.
84 633csi 5 spd

6727698

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tschultz
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Re: 1980 635CSi Euro

Post by tschultz » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:31 pm

Yeah: https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showth ... p?t=381139

He didn't update it lately but took it to D4C 2016, there are some photos on the website showing it. Actually somebody stole 2 of his spark plug wires and he left the car out there until a month later when he could pick it up and drive it home!

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