Spasso's Turbo Shark #0610023

Document your Sixer project here.

Moderators: GRNSHRK, ron, bfons

Post Reply
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Spasso's Turbo Shark #0610023

Post by Spasso »

I've been bad again.
On Halloween I traded my 530 Touring for a 1985 635 with an M106 Turbo motor from a 1985 745.

I guess you could call this a 645 CSI.

Except for the warped DOT bumpers the car is quite straight and rust free. The paint is pretty much done too, which I don't mind at the moment. It's about the performance.
The interior is in pretty fair shape and there is a plethora of detail items (as usual) to attend to.

The engine classification is M106, a 3.5 liter straight six like the one in my other 635 but has a turbo specific head and exhaust manifold. The turbo is a rebuilt K27 (OEM) set up to run 10 psi. (non-intercooled at this time).
Stock boost is 6 psi.

The exhaust is THREE INCH diameter, hand fabricated stainless steel all the way back. Very nice work. The welds are beautiful.

Transmission is a Getrag 5-speed (260) with a 3.25 Posi differential.
Recent clutch and driveline.

The timing and fuel are compensated with a Miller WAR chip (programmable), using the 059 ECU converted to 28 pin out..
It's been converted to MAF as well.
It runs fine in cool weather but I would have to be careful on hot days until I get it inter-cooled.

Current HP is about 290 with 300 ft lbs torque. Very tricky on wet roads.

Note: The lime green on the intake gives it an extra 15 horsepower.

The intake pipe/filter arrangement is funky. Something I will fix when I figure out the ducting for the I/C.

Even though the 745 didn't have a blowoff valve starting in '83 I will probably install one anyway, just to cover all the bases.

It's a RAT but it's FUN.

BTW, The Style 4's are going on my Euro. I think the look is just right for it.
Attachments
RR 1 (Small).JPG
RR 1 (Small).JPG (61.68 KiB) Viewed 25847 times
Engine Right 1 (Small).JPG
Engine Right 1 (Small).JPG (66.47 KiB) Viewed 31631 times
LF (Small).JPG
LF (Small).JPG (67.63 KiB) Viewed 31631 times
Last edited by Spasso on Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
bpoliakoff
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 3312
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:28 pm
Location: scottsdale, arizona
Contact:

Post by bpoliakoff »

Het Dana, looks like Josh's old car. Good buy on that as he builds high quality stuff!!
81 Euro 635 M90 with motronic. Currently under a complete nut and bolt restoration. Pictures at
flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos.
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

Yes. This one was Josh's car.
As time permits I will continue with the development of the car, intercooler etc....

I know of one other Turbo Shark in my area, running a water/air cooler. Too bad it's an automatic.
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

I got the blowoff/recirc valve in the mail today so I can start with that aspect of the project.

I am probably going to have to delve into the more mundane areas of automotive repair/improvement and start making the list for front suspension and brake parts. Gotta have good feet under this thing.

Struts are a must.
Possibly springs
Thrust arms are shot.
Should do ball joints and rod ends while I'm in there.
Both rotors have multiple cracks starting where they are drilled.
Take an eye ball at the calipers etc......................
A bunch of other stuff will make itself known once I get in there, I'm sure.

The driver's seat is an electric version of the sport seats in my Euro but the passenger seat is a standard type so I will probably replace both with the tan electric sport seats out of my wrecked 328iS.

.............the usual stuff you find an a well used E24.

One great thing about getting an E28/E24 is the BENTLEY MANUAL!
I love those things!
User avatar
tschultz Online
Posts: 2515
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:54 pm
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Post by tschultz »

Hey, that spoiler belongs on your other car!

Also keep in mind if they haven't been replaced already, rear dogbones/pitman arms. They make a drastic handling increase if your are worn out.
I think something like $80 shipped from AutohausAZ with new bolts.
http://www.Drive4Corners.com
Image
'79 635CSi Revival
'80 635CSi
'83 633CSi Callaway Turbo continued as 1988 535is Turbo
SOLD: '81 635CSi/A
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

tschultz wrote:Hey, that spoiler belongs on your other car!

Also keep in mind if they haven't been replaced already, rear dogbones/pitman arms. They make a drastic handling increase if your are worn out.
I think something like $80 shipped from AutohausAZ with new bolts.
The other car came with a spoiler, I just haven't put it on yet. It's the smaller lip style, see other thread.

I'm sure it can use new suspension stuff in the rear but the front end takes priority, it's pretty much sacked.
User avatar
tschultz Online
Posts: 2515
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:54 pm
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Post by tschultz »

Yeah, i saw that, just saying that is the early 78-81 635CSi spoiler
Image

Image
Image
http://www.Drive4Corners.com
Image
'79 635CSi Revival
'80 635CSi
'83 633CSi Callaway Turbo continued as 1988 535is Turbo
SOLD: '81 635CSi/A
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

tschultz wrote:Yeah, i saw that, just saying that is the early 78-81 635CSi spoiler
Got it.
In fact, the entire rear lid and spoiler for this car DID come off a Euro 635 parts car.

The spoiler needs to be refinished. (along with the rest of the car).
It's been sprayed with gloss paint of some sort that is now cracked all over.
I need to figure out the best way to strip and prep this for a new finish that won't crack.
Someone told me that paint designed for use on plastic bumper covers is the way to go.
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

Took it to work for the first time today. It runs out pretty good on the freeway but it looks like I'll be pulling the instrument cluster soon.
It was intermittent when I got the car, meaning the gauge functions would quit, Idiot lights, Tach, Fuel and Temp. (The speedo doesn't work at all).

A slap on the right side usually revived it but today it went totally dead. I read a bunch of threads on the SI board issues and battery problems but that didn't seem to cover total black-out of the unit.

My first thought is to pull the cluster and check and clean all supply leads, including grounds. If the SI board circuitry doesn't look corroded or burned then I figure the smart thing would be to R & R the battery(s).

Lighting upgrades as well.
Some nice "indoor" work while it is storming outside.

I found the link to Euro-Electric on ebay and thought, cool, rebuilt clusters, until I saw that the units are for builds AFTER 2/1986. Mine is 10/84. RATS.
It looks like ProgRama can provide a battery-less board for mine. Time to pop it out and see what kind of shape it is in.


Oh well. Suggestions are welcome.......................................
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

Well, finally got the instrument cluster out so I can change the SI board.
The batteries on the old board were leaking a bit and there was corrosion to the surrounding circuits so I figured a rebuilt board would be the way to go.

Pictured is the old board.

I ordered a ProgRama 27301 from Pelican and installed it today. The basic price was good and the shipping was the cheapest for my location..

Of course, while I was in there, upgrades to 5 watt bulbs for the instrument lights and found a couple of the little "idiot" lights were burned out so ordered a few.

I noticed that the small odometer gear was missing so ordered a new "E1" 12 tooth from www.odometergears.com. Not cheap but where are you going to go for reproductions in a newer (and better) material.
These guys also supply gears for seat repairs. I used some for my E36.

The plastic face for the cluster was loose so I pulled it off the rest of the way so I can buff out the scuffs and scratches in it.

I will remount it with 3M Black Super Weather Adhesive.

The next step is to clean up the rats-nest of wiring under the dash and re-sheath it before re-installing the cluster.
Attachments
OLD 635 SI Board (Small).JPG
OLD 635 SI Board (Small).JPG (48.72 KiB) Viewed 31146 times
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

Well, I had a few false starts with the instrument cluster. Everything worked after installing the new SI board, that is until I hit a bump. Then the tach died and temp and Fuel.
The new odometer gear works in the speedo gauge but that quit working too when the I slapped the dash.

I pulled it all back out and started wiggling the two main gang plugs in the back, the blue one in the center and the white one behind the speedo.

I could see things working and then failing as I moved the plugs around a bit so pulled the cluster the rest of the way out of the car.

I figured the 40 odd, one millimeter male pins in the back of the cluster were not making tight consistent contact with the female counterparts in each plug so I took a jeweler's screw driver and slightly bent each pin laterally a tiny bit. Then I went back through and bent each pin off center longitudinally (in the same direction).

It was a little tricky to get the plugs to engage all of the pins but it went together tight and the cluster is rock solid now. MAN!
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

I got around to pulling the valve cover off today to check the valves and the banjo bolts on the spray bar.

The valves were down around .009/.010" so I readjusted them back up to .012" using the go, no-go method, .011"to clear and .013" to stop.

I thought about how small the holes are in the spray bar and how much crud might build up in the tube so I installed a new spray bar with new washers and the updated banjo bolts with the locking compound, torqued to 12 nm.

I also noticed that the spray bar in NOT omni-directional. There is a front a rear though it's not apparent at first. The spray holes will only align with the paired cam lobes when in installed in one direction only.

New spark plugs on order today. OEM said WR8DC so I have WR8DC+7905 coming. The same as called out for the M90 engine I have.

I picked up a new rear heat shield for the exhaust manifold but the forward piece is NLA. I'll have to scrounge one or make one.
ron
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 4569
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:35 am
Location: South Wales U.K.

Post by ron »

Spasso wrote:
I also noticed that the spray bar in NOT omni-directional. There is a front a rear though it's not apparent at first. The spray holes will only align with the paired cam lobes when in installed in one direction only.
If you look closely there is an arrow pointing forward stamped on the spray bar.
They are ALWAYS rustier than you thought!!!!!!
'85 M #228
'87 M #367
'88 High line.
'10 X5
‘84 Alfasud 1.5 ti
User avatar
Brucey
6 Series Guru
6 Series Guru
Posts: 10077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:17 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Post by Brucey »

Spasso wrote:

New spark plugs on order today. OEM said WR8DC so I have WR8DC+7905 coming. The same as called out for the M90 engine I have.
this is the turbo car, yes? You should take advice here from other turbo owners re. the plugs, probably go a grade or two colder thus WR7DC (7900), WR6DC (7995) or something.

If you start having hot plug issues it will be when you are giving it the berries repeatedly; however, go too cold and you may get fouling if running at low speed for too long.

I've run WR7DC in a normally aspirated (Euro high compression) M30 motor OK withut fouling issues BTW.

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

ron wrote:
If you look closely there is an arrow pointing forward stamped on the spray bar.
I saw the "V" stamped on the upper side of the tube and sort of guessed that was what it meant but I did a visual verification to be sure.
The marking was rather faint and easy to miss.
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

Brucey wrote:
this is the turbo car, yes? You should take advice here from other turbo owners re. the plugs, probably go a grade or two colder thus WR7DC (7900), WR6DC (7995) or something.

If you start having hot plug issues it will be when you are giving it the berries repeatedly; however, go too cold and you may get fouling if running at low speed for too long.

I've run WR7DC in a normally aspirated (Euro high compression) M30 motor OK withut fouling issues BTW.

cheers
Yes, this is the turbo car. Currently at 10 psi but not used much until I get the rest of this car sorted out. It's winter here so charge temps are fairly low.
Dumb that I didn't see what the other turbo guys were running before I ordered these plugs, OEM for the 745, M106.

The plugs I pulled out are BoschWR8LC* (Brasil).
They are very clean, center insulator is white with just a touch of brown at the tip.
The center electrode and ground arm are light brown.

*****What are the "Hot Plug" issues to look for?*******************


I barely got the plugs out. They felt like they were torqued to 60 ft lbs and then came out with resistance most of the way. I am assuming, (and hoping) that they came out hard because they were put in dry.

I did NOT see any aluminum thread material embedded in the spark plug threads and visual inspection of the threaded holes in the head did NOT show any sign of thread peeling or "balling".

I plan on running a greased thread chaser down each hole before putting in the new plugs then flushing with solvent. I will torque them to factory spec. If they don't blow out of the head when I run the engine I won't worry about it until the next adventure.

***********. So what is the popular consensus on thread treatments for the plugs when installing.?*******************

Torque values given are for "dry" plugs. I have read that others have used a very small amount of copper based anti-sieze.

Thanks for your help and advice.
DJ
User avatar
Brucey
6 Series Guru
6 Series Guru
Posts: 10077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:17 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Post by Brucey »

I use a little copper ease on the threads usually.

One thing that can cause difficulties is the exact thread reach in your cylinder head. Basically if there are one or two plug threads exposed inside the combusion chamber and you get some deposits forming, the plugs will sometimes be incredibly difficult to remove.

How do you tell if this is likely to happen? Well the easiest thing is to look at the old plugs and see how the crud formed on the end.

With a turbo car it is quite possible that the CR has been lowered by removing material from the combustion chamber; this may have exposed a thread or two. If so, think about filing or grinding off the excess threads from the new plugs, being sure to leave no burrs on the dressed threads.

I guess the stock 745i plug is good for about 250bhp so if that is what your motor is pushing out and the air-fuel ratio is well held then the stock plug should be OK. But if the mixture runs lean or you are shooting for 300bhp plus then the #8 plug is likely to be a bit hot running. I'd be inclined to follow the lead of other turbo owners on this one.

BTW the Bosch LC plugs have an extended nose which puts the spark in the middle of the combustion chamber; it also slightly extends the working range of the plug temperature wise.

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

Thanks for the tips Bruce.

I took another look at the plugs and the ends do not appear to have had much carbon build-up on them, but then, I don't think they have been in the car that long.
Everything is pretty dialed back on this car and I don't run it hard when I do drive it, (which isn't often)

It "might" be making around 280 if I run it hard but most of the time I'm below 3,000 rpm and moderate boost at best.

I'll toss the stock plugs in and run them for a while and see what they look like down the road. More than likely I'll go for the colder plug as you suggest, especially for the summer months..They are easy to change, (when the threads aren't buggered!)
I have the copper anti-seize on hand.

Obviously I need to do some reading in the boost threads.

Thanks again.
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

As long as I was going to have to wait for spark plugs I went ahead and ordered the WR6DC+7995 plugs. I'll shelve the WF8DC+7905 for now.

I picked up a thread chaser and ran it in all the holes. It looks like Brucey was right. The residue in the flutes was a brown carbon-like material.

I wiped the grease from each chaser after each hole and spread the grease out on a hard clean surface to look for grit and aluminum bits. Clean as could be. Looks like I dodged one on this one.

I shot some carb cleaner in each plug well and used the but end of my inspection mirror wrapped in a rag to clean the plug-gasket boss area then re-sprayed the threads with carb cleaner and scrubbed the threads with a welders "bottle-brush". Everything should be spic and span for the fresh plugs.
Last edited by Spasso on Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

In the mean time I wanted to correct a dodgy circuit for the cooling fan.
There is no mechanical fan, no room because of the size of the 745 radiator, just the aux fan in front of the radiator.
It was wired to a rectangular switch below where the radio went, (which I have NO idea it's original purpose).
Nothing automatic , fully manual. It was wired for the hi-speed function.

Pulling into town town I would watch the temp gauge and turn it on when need be. (Now you see the need for my need of a fully functioning instrument cluster.)

As I pulled the switch out I found that NO spade connectors were used and that just a few strands of conductor was wrapped through the hole in each male spade on the switch.

I went to the splices in the engine bay found conductors of the wire were merely jammed into the female spades of the OEM wires. It's a wonder this car didn't burn down!
***********************
I purchased an adjustable Derale Fan Controller and put it in a project box from Radio Shack and mounted to the core support on the RH side. I ran the capillary tube down to the lower radiator hose and installed it about 4 inches up inside that.

I drew power from the back of the Alternator terminal and routed through a stand-alone 20 amp water proof fuse up by the fuse box and routed the supply wire along the lower valance with the stock wire bundle back to the Derale Controller.
The reason I wired it like this is so it would continue to run after the engine shut down, until the coolant reached the lower temps desired instead of boiling and puking right after shut down as is common on an open system.

The nice thing about the Derale is that it is adjustable and can be shut off at the control knob if need be.

I use this exact set-up on my '70 Chevy truck and I never have coolant purges with this set-up.

The supply wire from the controller to the fan is for the "normal" slow speed.
***********************************************
I ran a wire from the output side of the controller to a small circular blue light that is mounted in the panel below the radio so I can see if and when the fan is running.
*************************************************
Now back to the original set of "hi-speed" wires this thing was originally set up with.
This circuit is not your typical plus side / negative side circuit but instead a shunt circuit that works in conjunction with the "normal" speed circuit. I simply spliced to and ran both wires back to the panel area on the left of the rectangular "mystery" buttons and hooked to a toggle switch. This shunt circuit works only with the key "on".

When the "regular" Derale controlled circuit runs, the blue light comes on.
A nice bonus is when I manually turn on the high speed fan circuit, the blue light also comes on.
********************************************************
With the key off, the high speed circuit will not run but the regular circuit will, until things cool down to what ever temp I have the controller set at..
*************************************************
Derale Kit #16769, from Doug Herbert Performance, free shipping. Cost 32.94
****************************************************
One and a half days of personal labor to cut out the crap wiring and do a clean install of all components and wiring.
***********************
Fun holiday activities!!!!
User avatar
Brucey
6 Series Guru
6 Series Guru
Posts: 10077
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:17 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Post by Brucey »

sounds like a good job with the fan there; all that work is certainly worthwhile if it builds reliability.

My instinct is to err on the side of cold-running plugs if I am in any doubt; a cold running plug risks fouling under low-speed running, but a hot running plug can make holes in pistons and worse. I know which I prefer fixing!

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

Brucey wrote:sounds like a good job with the fan there; all that work is certainly worthwhile if it builds reliability.

My instinct is to err on the side of cold-running plugs if I am in any doubt; a cold running plug risks fouling under low-speed running, but a hot running plug can make holes in pistons and worse. I know which I prefer fixing!

cheers
Glad I decided to go with the WR6DC plugs then.
There is no intercooler on this car so, again, err on the side of caution and use a light foot.

From what I have been told and read, the stock 745 didn't use a blow-off/ recirc valve in the OEM system. I figure running anything over stock 6 psi requires one, especially if I go over the 10 psi it is at now. I hear blow-back and stalling the turbo is hard on it and fouls up consistent flow through the range.

I had a one inch I.D. spud welded on the side of the charge pipe that runs across the top of the valve cover, then added a Kayser blow-off valve that recirculates back into the intake pipe downstream from the MAF sensor. Not pretty or trick but functional.

I have been told I could have just vented to atmosphere but too late now that the recirc fitting is installed in the intake pipe. I'll change that when I redesign and build a decent intake pipe. The design appears to be cobbled together, complete with hammer marks on two sides of it to flatten for clearance to the exhaust manifold/ frame.

More opportunity to design and refine the basic design.
I found a local one-man machine shop in town that can handle all of the TIG, Heli-arc, CNC, Fab and machining I night need. He has no problem banging out a few small jobs once in a while. Nice to have the resource..
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

Adjustable Derale Fan Controller in Radio Shack project box.
The black box and blue knob are from Radio Shack. The mounting bracket from the controller kit.

One lead going in is power supply and one other of the two to the fan. The extra output wire goes to the blue indicator on the dash panel.

Everything is sealed with Permatex Black OEM silicone and wiped clean.

You can see the coiled capillary tube on the left side of the box as it heads down to the lower radiator hose.
Attachments
IMG_0436 (Small).JPG
IMG_0436 (Small).JPG (117.85 KiB) Viewed 24641 times
IMG_0435 (Small).JPG
IMG_0435 (Small).JPG (118.62 KiB) Viewed 24641 times
User avatar
Spasso
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 pm
Location: The Jet City, USA

Post by Spasso »

Looking under the car to see what I can do to improve the intake tube routing and filter placement I came across an enigma with the oil drain-back hose on the bottom of the turbo.

It was obvious the drain tube in the drain back flange and the pipe in the block didn't come close to matching up and the hose was kinked and collapsed.

A picture from the build thread shows the two lining up. But no longer.
Fortunately the hose wasn't collapsed totally so some oil was getting through to the oil pan. (Glad I haven't been driving the car much.)

I'm still trying to decide if clocking the compressor housing outlet from the OEM down position to the UP position it is in now has something to do with this offset and the center section wasn't reclocked on the turbine section when this was done.

Shown are comparative pictures of "correct routing" and "as found."
Attachments
PICT0117 (Small).jpg
PICT0117 (Small).jpg (54.03 KiB) Viewed 24601 times
Drain Back Hose, Through (Small).JPG
Drain Back Hose, Through (Small).JPG (40.6 KiB) Viewed 24605 times
Current Drain Back Routing (Small).JPG
Current Drain Back Routing (Small).JPG (91.87 KiB) Viewed 24605 times
Correct Drainback Angle (Small).jpg
Correct Drainback Angle (Small).jpg (79.47 KiB) Viewed 24605 times
9mil
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:48 am
Location: Atlanta GA - USA

Post by 9mil »

Love the updates as I am in the midst of an e24 turbo conversion as well and there are so many intricacies that will 20$ bill you to death - it is nice to be able to refer to pictures and experiences here.
Also- not sure if it is an optical illusion or was an older picture - but it looks like your wastegate signal line off the compressor housing is capped off with tape from when it was powder coated-
PO had some questionable tastes in colors BTW ;-). Your a betwr man than I for dealing with it!

9
1987 635CSI 5spd
1984 928S Black/Black 5spd
1988 Lotus Esprit - LS1 swap
1996 VFR750
Other stuff not nearly interesting
Post Reply