Thanks Spasso - Great post and thread.
Got'ta love some K27 Boost...
Spasso's Turbo Shark #0610023
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dlvad
- Platinum Member
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- Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:57 pm
- Location: Healdsburg, NorCal & Baja Sur, MX
Yeah...Whats up?
DV
Motorsport & Vintage Coupes
ALPINA Oldtimers of Course...
BMW-Classic CCA
Motorsport & Vintage Coupes
ALPINA Oldtimers of Course...
BMW-Classic CCA
I have been tied up with work and some other projects this spring, plus I've been waiting for it to warm up a little before I diagnose this starting issue.9mil wrote:Spasso - Where's the project at!!??
I'm tired of freezing my ass off!
I am taking 4 days off this weekend and plan on dedicating the time to this car until I get it figured out.
Spent 4 hrs testing today.
This is NOT my forte so please bear with me.
I tested spark plug output and coil high voltage output.
No spark.
Going through the checklist.
* There is power to the + & - terminals of the coil at the same time with the key on. This doesn't strike me as being right.
* There is 12.5 volts to term 15 (+) on the coil. Same on term 1 (-)
*Resistance between term 1 (-) & 15 (+) is 2.1 ohms. The check list says it should be .50 ohms.
* Resistance between term 15 (+) & the high tension tower is 6460 ohms. The check list says it should be 6000 ohms.
------ It took me a long time to figure out which relays on the outside of the fuse box was what, there are three. The Bentley shows a whole bunch and the layout didn't match other sources I had so I bounced the wire colors of each relay to the wiring diagrams in the Bentley. There is a Main, Fuel and O2 heater relay.
*Main relay pin #86 was hot with the key on, (I think). This relay doesn't have numbers on the bottom because the base isn't plastic, it is poured resin so I am guessing it is an original piece. Because of that it is being replaced.
I continued testing pins 87 & 87b per the checklist anyway and it seemed okay.
* I did try an alternate test for the Main relay which checks voltage at the ECU harness plug. Pin 4 and pin 35 are supposed to have voltage and in this case #4 did NOT. Another reason to change the Main relay.
* Speed & Reference Sensors
Here is where it got confusing for me.
Testing the terminals for both Sensors I couldn't seem to get consistent readings. I am also not sure what range my readings were coming up in.
As follows:
* Reference Sensor
Term 1&2= 949 ohms, Should be 960 +/- 96 ohms (Good test)
Term 1&3= 30.00 Milliohms?, Should be 100k ohms (Does 100k ohms mean 100 Kilo-ohms or 100,000 ohms?)
Term 2&3= 29.00 Milliohms?, Should be 100k ohms (Does 100k ohms mean 100 Kilo-ohms or 100,000 ohms?)
* Speed Sensor
Term 1&2= 37.40 Milliohms?
Term 1&3= 0.00 ohms, Should be 100k ohms (Does 100k ohms mean 100 Kilo-ohms or 100,000 ohms?)
Term 2&3= 0.00 ohms, Should be 100k ohms (Does 100k ohms mean 100 Kilo-ohms or 100,000 ohms?)
Regardless of what range my readings are in it looks like the Speed Sensor is toast.
* Testing the SUPPLY plugs for the Speed and Reference sensors.
Testing the Yellow & Black wires on each connector.
Reference Sensor supply was down around .40 volts. The checklist says .40 but I wonder if it is a typo.
Speed Sensor supply should have been 4.0 volts but was down around .70 volts.
If one of our resident gurus could compare this info I sure would appreciate it.
This is NOT my forte so please bear with me.
I tested spark plug output and coil high voltage output.
No spark.
Going through the checklist.
* There is power to the + & - terminals of the coil at the same time with the key on. This doesn't strike me as being right.
* There is 12.5 volts to term 15 (+) on the coil. Same on term 1 (-)
*Resistance between term 1 (-) & 15 (+) is 2.1 ohms. The check list says it should be .50 ohms.
* Resistance between term 15 (+) & the high tension tower is 6460 ohms. The check list says it should be 6000 ohms.
------ It took me a long time to figure out which relays on the outside of the fuse box was what, there are three. The Bentley shows a whole bunch and the layout didn't match other sources I had so I bounced the wire colors of each relay to the wiring diagrams in the Bentley. There is a Main, Fuel and O2 heater relay.
*Main relay pin #86 was hot with the key on, (I think). This relay doesn't have numbers on the bottom because the base isn't plastic, it is poured resin so I am guessing it is an original piece. Because of that it is being replaced.
I continued testing pins 87 & 87b per the checklist anyway and it seemed okay.
* I did try an alternate test for the Main relay which checks voltage at the ECU harness plug. Pin 4 and pin 35 are supposed to have voltage and in this case #4 did NOT. Another reason to change the Main relay.
* Speed & Reference Sensors
Here is where it got confusing for me.
Testing the terminals for both Sensors I couldn't seem to get consistent readings. I am also not sure what range my readings were coming up in.
As follows:
* Reference Sensor
Term 1&2= 949 ohms, Should be 960 +/- 96 ohms (Good test)
Term 1&3= 30.00 Milliohms?, Should be 100k ohms (Does 100k ohms mean 100 Kilo-ohms or 100,000 ohms?)
Term 2&3= 29.00 Milliohms?, Should be 100k ohms (Does 100k ohms mean 100 Kilo-ohms or 100,000 ohms?)
* Speed Sensor
Term 1&2= 37.40 Milliohms?
Term 1&3= 0.00 ohms, Should be 100k ohms (Does 100k ohms mean 100 Kilo-ohms or 100,000 ohms?)
Term 2&3= 0.00 ohms, Should be 100k ohms (Does 100k ohms mean 100 Kilo-ohms or 100,000 ohms?)
Regardless of what range my readings are in it looks like the Speed Sensor is toast.
* Testing the SUPPLY plugs for the Speed and Reference sensors.
Testing the Yellow & Black wires on each connector.
Reference Sensor supply was down around .40 volts. The checklist says .40 but I wonder if it is a typo.
Speed Sensor supply should have been 4.0 volts but was down around .70 volts.
If one of our resident gurus could compare this info I sure would appreciate it.
Thanks for the offer.9mil wrote:Wish I could help with the testing- mine is down complelty currently but Ill see if I can find something.
9
The new parts should be here Friday and with luck I can install them Sunday if I'm not working.
Out of curiosity I may start with replacing the two flywheel sensors and retain the original relays.
If it doesn't start I'll do the relays.
If it doesn't start then I have plans to re-christen the car with an appropriate name.
I got my parts this morning and only one of two flywheel sensors were included so I guess I'll install the new one to replace what I "think" is the bad one and reuse what I "think" is the good one.
Gotta give it a shot just to see if I was right.
I'll have to wait until next week for the other one.
I think this car is hexed.............................
Gotta give it a shot just to see if I was right.
I'll have to wait until next week for the other one.
I think this car is hexed.............................
Hexed... Ha!
I nowunderstand what my dad meant when I asked why everything didn't have a turbo (because that is a world I would want to live in!) and the reply was " more shit to break"
He was right-
I nowunderstand what my dad meant when I asked why everything didn't have a turbo (because that is a world I would want to live in!) and the reply was " more shit to break"
He was right-
1987 635CSI 5spd
1984 928S Black/Black 5spd
1988 Lotus Esprit - LS1 swap
1996 VFR750
Other stuff not nearly interesting
1984 928S Black/Black 5spd
1988 Lotus Esprit - LS1 swap
1996 VFR750
Other stuff not nearly interesting
Driving home last night from work the 525 started missing pretty bad, I assume from all of the oil in the spark plug tubes and shot spark plug extenders. ( I knew it was going to happen the last time I changed plugs).
The good news is, I managed to get the Turbo car running using the old Reference Sensor and the NEW Speed Sensor and the OLD relays. It appears I was correct about the bad Speed Sensor.
(The new Reference Sensor should be here next week sometime, easy install).
The new relays go in a zip-loc baggie in the glove box.
Note: When I hit the starter button it fired up on 1/2 revolution like there was never a problem
I need to drive it around this weekend to see if it is going to be viable transportation while I fix the 525.
Aaaaaaaah the joy of owning clunkers..............................
The good news is, I managed to get the Turbo car running using the old Reference Sensor and the NEW Speed Sensor and the OLD relays. It appears I was correct about the bad Speed Sensor.
(The new Reference Sensor should be here next week sometime, easy install).
The new relays go in a zip-loc baggie in the glove box.
Note: When I hit the starter button it fired up on 1/2 revolution like there was never a problem
I need to drive it around this weekend to see if it is going to be viable transportation while I fix the 525.
Aaaaaaaah the joy of owning clunkers..............................
Updated picture of engine bay.
Repainted cam cover and charge tube.
Installed new heat shield (rear) and fabbed a forward shield because new ones are NLA. It does the job.
Repainted cam cover and charge tube.
Installed new heat shield (rear) and fabbed a forward shield because new ones are NLA. It does the job.
- Attachments
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- Engine Repaint (Small).JPG (73.69 KiB) Viewed 9932 times
Last edited by Spasso on Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When I took it for a test drive the speedo in the newly repaired instrument cluster quit working. I JUST FIXED THE !!@#$%^&**! THING A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO !!!
I pulled the check panel on the left and reached in and wiggled the main plug on the back and it started working again.
THIS CAR JUST EARNED A NEW NAME, "Schei?haufen" (S**tpile)
I know the drill on grounds and have been doing visual checks on the under-dash main ground and chassis/engine grounds. I'll be pulling those and cleaning them as I go.
As far as the test results go, I think a lot of the weird results were due to my cheap Radio Shack volt meter. When I added everything up it pointed to a dead Speed Sensor which, when replaced, solved the problem. I will be investing in a Fluke in the near future.
I drove the car quite a bit today and it runs really well with the exception of neutral throttle positions, the chip in the ECU has a problem with consistent fueling at that throttle position. (Aftermarket programmable chip from Miller Performance)
As soon as you let off a little or give it a little gas it straightens right out. I just need to adapt my driving style to the programming until I can refine the fuel curve a little.
I pulled the check panel on the left and reached in and wiggled the main plug on the back and it started working again.
THIS CAR JUST EARNED A NEW NAME, "Schei?haufen" (S**tpile)
I know the drill on grounds and have been doing visual checks on the under-dash main ground and chassis/engine grounds. I'll be pulling those and cleaning them as I go.
As far as the test results go, I think a lot of the weird results were due to my cheap Radio Shack volt meter. When I added everything up it pointed to a dead Speed Sensor which, when replaced, solved the problem. I will be investing in a Fluke in the near future.
I drove the car quite a bit today and it runs really well with the exception of neutral throttle positions, the chip in the ECU has a problem with consistent fueling at that throttle position. (Aftermarket programmable chip from Miller Performance)
As soon as you let off a little or give it a little gas it straightens right out. I just need to adapt my driving style to the programming until I can refine the fuel curve a little.
Last edited by Spasso on Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
My 540i does the same thing on neutral throttle- Dinan ecu... I just dont let the throttle go neutral!
Before I disassembled the entire car, my 6 always felt like it was about to start at any moment... You would just touch the key and it would instantly be running- very odd.... Now that I have accidently coated the ref and speed sensors with oil and what not, not so much... I need to replace both of those and the crank position pickup too.
Congrats on getting her running... I'm about to put in 2 or 3 days of tying up loose ends and hope to get it on the road sooner than later!
Before I disassembled the entire car, my 6 always felt like it was about to start at any moment... You would just touch the key and it would instantly be running- very odd.... Now that I have accidently coated the ref and speed sensors with oil and what not, not so much... I need to replace both of those and the crank position pickup too.
Congrats on getting her running... I'm about to put in 2 or 3 days of tying up loose ends and hope to get it on the road sooner than later!
1987 635CSI 5spd
1984 928S Black/Black 5spd
1988 Lotus Esprit - LS1 swap
1996 VFR750
Other stuff not nearly interesting
1984 928S Black/Black 5spd
1988 Lotus Esprit - LS1 swap
1996 VFR750
Other stuff not nearly interesting
I decided to do something with the ridiculous "Park Bench" of a front bumper and pushed it in 3 inches.
Goggles and disposable rain suit recommended.
Disposable clothes optional.
The oil in the shock tubes STINKS.
Lots of kitty litter and Simple Green required.
I loosened the front airdam supports and let it drop a little and then drilled the shock tubes.
I went through the outer sleeves first and let those spray and depressurize.
Do NOT breathe the atomized spray! Set up a strong fan and hold your breath or wear a respirator.
LOOK OUT FOR IGNITION SOURCES. The mist can explode.
I took a block of wood and a 4 lb sledge and knocked the bumper in as far as it would go and then drilled the inner shaft of the shock tubes using the same holes drilled previously.
It sprayed a bunch more and drained.
I knocked the bumper in to the desired position, using a tape measure underneath to keep the ends even.
I sprayed the underside of the car heavily with Simple Green to break up the oil and let it drip dry overnight.
Today I used my telescopic transmission jack to raise the spoiler at each support location and retightened the bracket bolts.
To get the big clunky rubber caps at each end of the bumper to suck in to the bumper tighter I trimmed the bottom of each, taking off 1/2" at the front and tapering to zero where the side support brackets were located, aft of the side reflectors.
I used the hammer and block to shock each piece inboard and then used steady pressure while I drilled pilot holes through the rubber at the forward LOWER corners, into the bumper, and installed pan head self-tapping screws. (Unseen when the car is on the ground)
I did the same up top and installed the screw through the joint where the end cap and upper apron meet on each side. (I painted these screw heads black.)
When I have a warm day I will lay in a fillet bead of 3M Body Seam Filler along the lower edge of the rubber end caps and the airdam. ( The 3M product is paintable and doesn't shrink.)
The rear bumper will be done when I remove the giant muffler and install a smaller Borla unit back under the car further.
Goggles and disposable rain suit recommended.
Disposable clothes optional.
The oil in the shock tubes STINKS.
Lots of kitty litter and Simple Green required.
I loosened the front airdam supports and let it drop a little and then drilled the shock tubes.
I went through the outer sleeves first and let those spray and depressurize.
Do NOT breathe the atomized spray! Set up a strong fan and hold your breath or wear a respirator.
LOOK OUT FOR IGNITION SOURCES. The mist can explode.
I took a block of wood and a 4 lb sledge and knocked the bumper in as far as it would go and then drilled the inner shaft of the shock tubes using the same holes drilled previously.
It sprayed a bunch more and drained.
I knocked the bumper in to the desired position, using a tape measure underneath to keep the ends even.
I sprayed the underside of the car heavily with Simple Green to break up the oil and let it drip dry overnight.
Today I used my telescopic transmission jack to raise the spoiler at each support location and retightened the bracket bolts.
To get the big clunky rubber caps at each end of the bumper to suck in to the bumper tighter I trimmed the bottom of each, taking off 1/2" at the front and tapering to zero where the side support brackets were located, aft of the side reflectors.
I used the hammer and block to shock each piece inboard and then used steady pressure while I drilled pilot holes through the rubber at the forward LOWER corners, into the bumper, and installed pan head self-tapping screws. (Unseen when the car is on the ground)
I did the same up top and installed the screw through the joint where the end cap and upper apron meet on each side. (I painted these screw heads black.)
When I have a warm day I will lay in a fillet bead of 3M Body Seam Filler along the lower edge of the rubber end caps and the airdam. ( The 3M product is paintable and doesn't shrink.)
The rear bumper will be done when I remove the giant muffler and install a smaller Borla unit back under the car further.
- Attachments
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- Frnt L (Small).JPG (56.7 KiB) Viewed 9931 times
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- Frnt L High (Small).JPG (51.38 KiB) Viewed 9931 times
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- Frnt L Side (Small).JPG (69.2 KiB) Viewed 9931 times
Last edited by Spasso on Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've been driving it to work three days straight and it hasn't quit on me yet, A RECORD!.
I just installed the new Reference Sensor today.
The more I drive it, the better it seems to run. I have had to adjust my throttle technique a little to smooth out the transitions from idle to power and back to cruise etc..........................sudden changes in throttle position can cause the engine stutter and hunt around a bit.
I'm sure some work on the fuel maps will help but for now I just need to run it while I fix the 525.
As bad as the 525 was running when I parked it last week, I was surprised when it started up this morning and ran perfectly. I'll be interested to see what the plug wells look like.
I just installed the new Reference Sensor today.
The more I drive it, the better it seems to run. I have had to adjust my throttle technique a little to smooth out the transitions from idle to power and back to cruise etc..........................sudden changes in throttle position can cause the engine stutter and hunt around a bit.
I'm sure some work on the fuel maps will help but for now I just need to run it while I fix the 525.
As bad as the 525 was running when I parked it last week, I was surprised when it started up this morning and ran perfectly. I'll be interested to see what the plug wells look like.
I SWEAR TO GOD THIS CAR IS HAUNTED BY LUCAS, PRINCE OF DARKNESS HIMSELF!
or somebody installed the electrical system out of a Jag XJS in this thing.
Driving home last night the Tach started to jump a little. Then the Speedo jumped a little, but I knew which wire bundle to jiggle so that stopped.
Then the Tach quit all together. Then it started again and everything stayed on.
Today it started all over again, when ever I hit some ripples or bumps. One or both would jump and then both just quit.
I jiggled the bundle and eventually got the Speedo working again.
Mind you, I took great care to recondition and tweak the main plugs going into the back of the instrument cluster when I changed out the S.I. board, making sure they were tight and I wasn't going to experience this B.S.
Yes, "Der Schei?haufen" is living up to it's name today...................................
or somebody installed the electrical system out of a Jag XJS in this thing.
Driving home last night the Tach started to jump a little. Then the Speedo jumped a little, but I knew which wire bundle to jiggle so that stopped.
Then the Tach quit all together. Then it started again and everything stayed on.
Today it started all over again, when ever I hit some ripples or bumps. One or both would jump and then both just quit.
I jiggled the bundle and eventually got the Speedo working again.
Mind you, I took great care to recondition and tweak the main plugs going into the back of the instrument cluster when I changed out the S.I. board, making sure they were tight and I wasn't going to experience this B.S.
Yes, "Der Schei?haufen" is living up to it's name today...................................
Ha. My tach stopped wOrkIng al together just before I took it all apart... I swapped it out and finally got the temp gauge working but still dOnt have a tach/... I'll be interested in that one
1987 635CSI 5spd
1984 928S Black/Black 5spd
1988 Lotus Esprit - LS1 swap
1996 VFR750
Other stuff not nearly interesting
1984 928S Black/Black 5spd
1988 Lotus Esprit - LS1 swap
1996 VFR750
Other stuff not nearly interesting