Help Support Bigcoupe.com

85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Document your Sixer project here.

Moderators: ron, bfons, GRNSHRK

User avatar
zinnocoupe
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 415
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:57 am
Location: Vancouver BC

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by zinnocoupe » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:51 am

Very nice pics. I don't think I've ever seen the m88/s38 documented like this. Almost makes me think I could work on one.......Maybe :oops:
Keep up the good work. I hope we'll be seeing a first start video.
Image
1979 Euro 635ci no longer a basketcase, just a running rust bucket!
1977 530i New addition ( nonrunner)
1987 635csi 60K KM Garage Queen

brickwhite
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm
Location: Jackson, MO USA

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by brickwhite » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:47 pm

Reassembly....

I'm starting with the timing cover (New Front Crank seal installed). I like to use the type 3 aviation (brown goo) gasket sealant on my parts with paper gaskets and Toyota FIPG sealant in the corners. Personal preference....

Make sure you cut the paper gasket flush at the top and bottom before bolting together. Then find your parts and bolts and reassemble.

Image


My fancy way to remember where bolts go.

Image

Start with the top bolts to snug your head gasket against the cover first. Then move to the rest of the bolts.

Image

Image

New S50 timing chain tensioner and crush washer 32mm socket torqued to 50ft/lb

PNs - 11311405081 and 07119963418

Image

On to the Water pump and gasket. I like to use HEPU water pumps had pretty good luck with them. And they are still made in Germany.

Check your Water pump bolts and replace any that are rusty and/or missing threads. Most of mine were in pretty bad shape.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Installing the new hardened crank hub and checking the timing again before I get any further. Just in case I have to take it all apart.

BenGerman on mye28.com... http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=149412

Image

Image

Image

Top dead center lines up with the cover , harmonic balancer, and the cams... Looks like I'm good to move forward with the oil pan and the rest of reassembly and torquing down the crank nut.
Last edited by brickwhite on Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
- 12 535i
- 92 325ic
- 88 535is
- 85 M635csi

brickwhite
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm
Location: Jackson, MO USA

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by brickwhite » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:46 am

I hate you oil pan gasket... :evil:

Image

But all kidding aside. I have moved further along and cleaned up the block and removed the old oil pan gasket it was a pain. I got a better scraper and moved pretty fast. Cleaned up the oil pan and pulled out the Cherry picker to lift the engine.

Image

Don't forget to trim your paper gaskets before assembly.

Image

I've put the oil pan with new gasket back on and tightened all speck but while I'm in there and have the engine able to be moved. I thought I would do some hard to reach gaskets.

- Back of head cam plate
- back of the head Coolant pipe gasket

Image

Image

Image

Image

Clean off the old gasket...

The coolant pipe is Pretty clean...

Image


The BMW service manual notes to use a sealant (microencapsulation cement? Blue loctite?) on the plate bolts so they do not leak. FYI. I used some Toyota FIPG.

Image

On to the rear main Gasket and pipes, hoses and stater....while I was in there.... \:D/
- 12 535i
- 92 325ic
- 88 535is
- 85 M635csi

brickwhite
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm
Location: Jackson, MO USA

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by brickwhite » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:30 pm

More while I'm here...

Image

Image

Make sure you cut the paper gasket flush!

I installed a new rear main seal and gasket using my fancy PVC tool to make it a little deeper than the original.

Image


Image

I also used the newer type of rear main seal that does not have a spring, PFTP seal I believe its called. You keep the plastic Grommet in place while installing. It pops out when you push it down and seals. It says do not use oil or grease on the inside of the seal.

Image

On to the clutch and fly wheel..

The manual states the Flywheel should have a step the closest spec I could find was .35mm others said .50mm and one other said .20mm so I split the difference and with .35mm.

Image
Had the lightweight fly wheel resurfaced - cost $84 at the local Napa with a machine shop.

bolt up the flywheel with new bolts that have loctite coated on the threads.

Image

Clean off any grease or finger prints with some brake cleaner and torq to spec.

Image

Then install the pressure plate and clutch with tool and torque the new 10.9 M8x16 bolts to 32ft/lbs.

Image

Don't forget to lube the Clutch plate splines....

Image

Image

Back to the Starter... FCP euro had the OE reman Bosch Starter for $92 plus core. While I'm there.

Image

I also did all hoses under the intake.

Image

Image
- 12 535i
- 92 325ic
- 88 535is
- 85 M635csi

brickwhite
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm
Location: Jackson, MO USA

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by brickwhite » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:39 pm

Thought I better get these (German/Chinese/whatever) euro headers on while I have access and the transmission is out.

remember these.. They were scratch free...

Image

Image

Oh Man this was a project... Hardest thing so far. #-o took about 6 hrs or more.

I read where others put the two header pipes together and was able to fit them from the bottom.... I had no luck with that.

So I tried just the front one.... NOPE

Image

Then just the rear one.. . NOPE

So I ended up installing the rear pipe and then lifting the engine with the Cherry picker about 5 inches to fit the front while both were not on the studs.

Then your 24 copper 9mm nuts some you can get to with at 1/4 ratchet some you cannot and have to use a small 9mm spanner wrench.

Image

Have some 6mm flange nuts on hand just in case you bodge up the copper nuts.

Couple things that helped
- Cut the tabs between the pipes that were there for fabrication
- little anti-seize or lube on the studs.
- Make sure your stud threads are clean
- Cussing and swearing a lot.
- A second person to hold the pipe would have been nice.


I needed a cold one after that... it was early no beer or whisky yet. Later

That aluminum foil AC pipe needs work.... I know

Image
- 12 535i
- 92 325ic
- 88 535is
- 85 M635csi

hffvdbl
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:30 pm
Location: DFW

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by hffvdbl » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:59 am

Those headers look great in there! Thank you for sharing the experience with all of this and documenting for others.

Shipper 01
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:26 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by Shipper 01 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:49 am

you need to do the double timing chain solution.

brickwhite
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm
Location: Jackson, MO USA

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by brickwhite » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:49 pm

No, no I don't.

- Spoke with http://metricmechanic.com/ they actually convert to a single chain for less mass and faster revving.
- As long a your guides and chain are in good shape the conversion is not necessary.

If you read earlier in the thread this was addressed.
- 12 535i
- 92 325ic
- 88 535is
- 85 M635csi

brickwhite
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm
Location: Jackson, MO USA

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by brickwhite » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:19 pm

Moving along...

The transmission is back in, new seals, pivot pin, throw-out bearing, mounts, and fluid.

Image

New shifter bushings, I didn't go for a Z4 short shifter, I'm using the stock shifter. I was never a fan of the feel on my e28 or e30.

Image

Used a stainless clutch line from Garagistic but not sure I'm going to keep it.

Image

Driveshaft with new center bearing and guibo goes in...

Image

Back to the Engine... Finishing up.

The top chain guide (dual chain) does not fit the M88/3 valve cover, I marked the cover with some bluing and sanded off what is needed to fit the cover.

Image

Not when it was in the engine... FYI

Image

And she fits...

Image

On to the Crank NUT..... Hub holder, torque multiplier, and torque wrench... and some muscle with trying not to break anything... 380ft/lbs..

Image

Image
- 12 535i
- 92 325ic
- 88 535is
- 85 M635csi

Shipper 01
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:26 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by Shipper 01 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:20 pm

brickwhite wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:49 pm
No, no I don't.

- Spoke with http://metricmechanic.com/ they actually convert to a single chain for less mass and faster revving.
- As long a your guides and chain are in good shape the conversion is not necessary.

If you read earlier in the thread this was addressed.
You may be right, for a street car. The M88/3 in the JPS 635 runs twin chains. I've got the spare slotted timing gears for the JPS car in my car. The JPS car runs 420hp so I don't think the twin chain is hampering the performance. All said though if you look after the car you'll have no issue. I've found the timing chain tensioner is a problem and goes slack. There's an S54 upgrade for that I believe.

And when you think about the underlying rationale of the twin chain, being there in case one chain lets go, what happens when that one chain lets go? You'd need to kill the engine straight away or it would fling around, damage the other chain, lead to crap timing and hammering of valves.

So although over here in Aus everyone including JPS Race Team engine builders swear by the upgrade, just how logical is it?

Love the thread, I've booked my ticket to come over and steal your headers! Lovely!!

brickwhite
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm
Location: Jackson, MO USA

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by brickwhite » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:36 pm

Putting it all back together....

Horns.... Getting closer... I replaced the original rubber boots with Red silicone boots (NOT FROM MILLER, HIS ARE TOO LONG). I like the look but it's not for eveyone.

Image

Image

come to find out you have to put the horn on the intake first then bolt them to the engine, they don't fit the other way around.

Image

All new hoses and cleaned up most the original hose clamps...Replaced a couple with OE new but most were good.

One note on OE BMW hose clamps. Unless the screw is completely rusted reuse them. They are great and work much better than any slotted clamp out there. Unless you replace with new from the Dealer, but the old ones clean up and work well.

All is back on the engine. Need to fill with Gas/petrol, coolant and hook up the battery.

Then it's fingers crossed for initial startup
Last edited by brickwhite on Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- 12 535i
- 92 325ic
- 88 535is
- 85 M635csi

brickwhite
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm
Location: Jackson, MO USA

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by brickwhite » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:18 pm

I got then engine completely back together... and Started here up...

Video

https://youtu.be/ZhII2gItHs8

I have one injector leaking and the power steering pump was low with fluid.

Valves need shimmed/adjusted

So far so good...

now on to the interior.... ugh...
Last edited by brickwhite on Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.
- 12 535i
- 92 325ic
- 88 535is
- 85 M635csi

baders
Bigcoupe Contributor
Posts: 965
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:38 am
Location: Perth Australia

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by baders » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:14 am

Great work BW ! Waiting on the vid. I just noticed that the intake horns on the M88 are metal whereas my S38B36 are plastic.
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers

88m53453
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:44 am
Location: Butler, GA

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by 88m53453 » Tue May 07, 2019 1:23 am

ok, my hat is off to the documentaion. I recently completed the single to double row conversion. Main reason was customer wanted all new parts and that is not possible as you found and stay with the single row chain.

MY BIG QUESTION....What did you use for the valve cover to intake box vent hose when you went to the silicon intake boots ??? AND WHERE can I get one ?

thanks !

brickwhite
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm
Location: Jackson, MO USA

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by brickwhite » Tue May 07, 2019 1:37 am

It is possible to stay with a single row chain on the m88/3. I did, and was able to use some dual row parts.

Only part not available was the cam sprocket.

What did you charge for this Job? I'd like to see that bill!

The silicone throttle bodies hoses I think I got them here...

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/intake-pipe-reducer/ or Ebay...?hmm

as for the Vent hose from valve cover to intake I'm pretty sure it was stock. PN-11151306958

https://www.wallothnesch.com/en/vent-ho ... 70-12.html

or here

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-ve ... pUEALw_wcB
Last edited by brickwhite on Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- 12 535i
- 92 325ic
- 88 535is
- 85 M635csi

88m53453
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:44 am
Location: Butler, GA

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by 88m53453 » Sun May 19, 2019 1:35 pm

after silicon intake install, the standard vent hose will be about 1" short.....it won't work well at all

User avatar
TBM
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:05 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by TBM » Sun May 19, 2019 2:34 pm

88m53453 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 1:35 pm
after silicon intake install, the standard vent hose will be about 1" short.....it won't work well at all
I actually had the silicone intake boots and the breather hose just fits on.. I don't think I had any issues for the two years I ran it that way
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

brickwhite
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:29 pm
Location: Jackson, MO USA

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by brickwhite » Mon May 20, 2019 12:19 am

It depends on where you buy the Silicone adapters.

If you buy them at Miller (chip/maf guy) they will be too long. The ones I measured at the Vintage on a M5 were about 80MM which will cause your intake to be too far from the engine and interfere with stuff. You will need a longer intake breather etc.

https://www.millerperformancecars.com/s ... kit-detail


I bought mine at siliconintakes.com adapter and they are shorter at 73mm or 3" and allow you to use all stock stuff.

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/intake-p ... bf0dfe40a1

Image
- 12 535i
- 92 325ic
- 88 535is
- 85 M635csi

User avatar
TBM
Bigcoupe supporter
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:05 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: 85 euro m635csi & m88/3 timing chain - my project

Post by TBM » Mon May 20, 2019 4:42 am

Speaking of lengthening of runners.....
Your torque will now be available lower in the RPM range. I tested my car on a quick Dyno run before and after.. I could also feel the difference... The bottle neck is the AFM...
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests