1984 633CSi Rises again!

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songzunhuang
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H&R and Bilstein Sports

Post by songzunhuang »

I was going to wait until all the parts came in for my suspension, but it was a nice day today and it wasn't raining. By about noon, I had to tear into the car. Of course the first one takes the longest. I had to make runs to the tool store to get something big enough to get around the shock cartridge collar. I was surprised that 2 auto stores I went to had nothing! I ended up buying vise grips made for pipes from the hardware store.

Wasted a lot of time looking for the wrench and reading up on the process. I ended up only getting one side of the front done today! Then I had to get ready for an evening event. The next side will have to wait a day.

In any event, here's a few pics and also a shot of the H&R springs compared to stock. Although they are about 2" shorter, they only dropped my car about 1" after I completed the install.

Here's another trick that I had to figure out the hard way. It's impossible to get the nut top nut off the strut tube as the tube just spins with the nut. To break it loose, I had to use a vise grip on the top strut mount and I cranked the nut with my 19mm socket. This is the last picture below.
All the parts laid out before I started taking everything apart.
All the parts laid out before I started taking everything apart.
Screen Shot 2016-01-30 at 11.43.42 PM.png (564.97 KiB) Viewed 8214 times
Had to go buy giant jawed vise grips that were made for pipes. I couldn't figure out how else to get around the shock tubes.
Had to go buy giant jawed vise grips that were made for pipes. I couldn't figure out how else to get around the shock tubes.
Screen Shot 2016-01-30 at 11.57.21 PM.png (496.67 KiB) Viewed 8214 times
H&R vs. stock springs. It's about a 2" difference, but it dropped my car about 1.25", which is exactly as advertised.
H&R vs. stock springs. It's about a 2" difference, but it dropped my car about 1.25", which is exactly as advertised.
Screen Shot 2016-01-30 at 11.47.18 PM.png (539.88 KiB) Viewed 8214 times
Removing the top self locking nut by immobilizing the strut mount with a vise grip.
Removing the top self locking nut by immobilizing the strut mount with a vise grip.
REmove nut.png (488.11 KiB) Viewed 8155 times
Last edited by songzunhuang on Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Song Huang
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by sansouci »

Song,
A chain wrench should work, too. If you need leverage, a cheater pipe can be put over the handle.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by captain awesome »

The H&R spring number looks to be different from the new set I just installed. Mine were 50428 and yours appear to be 50143. I wonder what the difference is?
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by 87Shark »

Song, I love your write-ups and have been following your progress. You're doing a FANTASTIC job and helping to keep me motivated on my own nightmare. Waiting to see your usual step by step on the shock/strut suspension overhaul. Following what you do with the pics and text is much better that ANY manual!!! =D> Thanks in advance for all your wisdom.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang »

sansouci wrote:Song,
A chain wrench should work, too. If you need leverage, a cheater pipe can be put over the handle.
I thought about a chain wrench, but decide against it. I had purchased a chain wrench adaptor to do the brake bomb a while back, but it didn't work for the bomb. I'm not sure it was clear from the picture, but what I was trying to turn was the aluminum collar that screws into the strut tube. It secures the strut to the tube. It didn't seem to have enough surface area for a chain wrench. Also, it's supposed to be at 95 ft lbs, which seems a lot for a strap or chain wrench. I any case, the wide jawed vise grip worked great.
Last edited by songzunhuang on Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang »

captain awesome wrote:The H&R spring number looks to be different from the new set I just installed. Mine were 50428 and yours appear to be 50143. I wonder what the difference is?
You know, I didn't shop for my springs. I bought then from Ralph in SoCal (super nice guy), so I didn't look at any numbers. I figured he knows more about these cars than I! I'll have to look it up later. They did fit just fine and my car is sitting at 14" from center of wheel hub to fender lip. I went and looked at my measurements from a previous post and realized it's actually a 1 1/4" drop, which is exactly as advertised!

I also tried to put a 15mm spacer on the front and decided that it's too much space! It looked like at full compression the wheel could contact the fender. So I'm going to move the spacer to the back when my rear Bilstiens finally arrive. OK, today I get to do the driver's side.
Last edited by songzunhuang on Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang »

87Shark wrote:Song, I love your write-ups and have been following your progress. You're doing a FANTASTIC job and helping to keep me motivated on my own nightmare. Waiting to see your usual step by step on the shock/strut suspension overhaul. Following what you do with the pics and text is much better that ANY manual!!! =D> Thanks in advance for all your wisdom.
Thanks for the note. Part the reason I knew these cars would be a great investment/hobby is because of the community around them. Like you, I find that reading posts and getting the advice of others is much more useful than a shop manual or an assembly diagram. There's just so much that you can only realize from experience!

For example, I realized that removing the 3 bolts from the bottom of the strut tube is best done with the steering wheel at a few different angles. If the wheels are pointed straight ahead, you cannot get a clear shot at all the bolts since the other suspension assembles will force your socket wrench to come at odd angles. The bolts for holding the steering arm to the strut tube have oddly shallow heads so they are easy to round off. It took me a few tries to realize that you should turn the steering wheel to get to one of the bolts.

In any case, thanks for chiming in. It's good to know that someone is listening to my ramblings and that they are helping out. I've realized that it's also a fantastic way to keep a record of what's been done to the car. OK, more suspension fun today.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by Ralph in Socal »

Had a nice visit with Song a few days ago. I needed a ride away from home and it was a benefit to be able to drive someplace to meet like minded folks as myself. The drive was very enjoyable then I arrive at my destinations to meet great people. Then I get to scour their local yards for my parts hoard and to help others on the board.

Anyway it has become very difficult to find the 80s BMWs in yards these days and to my surprise, the Pick and Pull yard in Stockton had 3 e24s on hand - one being an 84 5-speed with everything intact. I visited several yards when I was in the area but this yard always has surprises for me. I was able to find a rare center mount diff cover as used in the earlier e28 based e24s. Not many of those cars or covers around but I have an e28 and an e24 with those. Nice to have a spare on hand. Also found parts for some other BC members so it was a very productive yard.

The best find, however, was an 89 e34 535i with a 260/6 trans and 3.46 LSD. The diff took a ride to SoCal. I will be heading back for more parts as I have more items to pick up for my hoard.

BTW the Front Springs are 50413 which is the part number for the e34 front springs made by H&R. They are exactly the same as e28 front springs and were substituted when H&R did not have any 50428 in stock. You should enjoy the ride they provide as I'm sure Derrick is also.

Song - thank you very much for the hospitality and it was great to meet you. Going like gangbusters with your car is fun and agreed you're doing the group excellent service with your documentation of the work. You can use a pipe wrench on the collar nut for tightening but you're probably past that today already. 30 mm drop is advertised by H&R so that translates to about 1.25 inches. Funny about those 3 bolts at the bottom end of the strut tower. I just advised Vic about turning the steering to gain access but it is still a tight area. Well done sir!!


Ralph
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by captain awesome »

Good info on the springs Ralph. I figured you knew what the difference was.
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What a huge difference a H&R lowering spring makes.

Post by songzunhuang »

OK, I completed the front spring installation today. I just had to post a picture of the before and after. It's like night and day wouldn't you say? Ever since I got my car, I felt it was nose high. After driving it for 5 months and waiting for it to "settle", I realized that there was something amiss. My rear was sagging. So I finally decided to replace everything. This weekend I finished my fronts. The lowered front matches the sagging rear pretty well (lower picture).
Before on top after new wheels. After H&R and Bilstien sports on the bottom. I still need to do the rears.
Before on top after new wheels. After H&R and Bilstien sports on the bottom. I still need to do the rears.
Compare.png (605.02 KiB) Viewed 8155 times
After I thought I was finished for the day and had cleaned up the mess and put everything away, my aluminum hubcentric rings arrived! On a Sunday! Who woulda thunk? Of course I had to drag the car back out and install those as well.While removing the old plastic rings, every one of them broke. I guess I wasn't going to use those again. I put anti-seize compound as everyone advises.
Aluminum hub-centric rings should stop the vibrations at 55-66 range.
Aluminum hub-centric rings should stop the vibrations at 55-66 range.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by Ralph in Socal »

Nice work Song. Looks great up front now. A couple of tips for the rears. First install the snap rings at a middle groove. I always start in the middle so that I can go up or down after the install. You may even like the initial height so that you will not have to do any adjustment. Starting at the top or bottom will usually require an adjustment. Put anti-seize on the 1 bolt at the bottom of the shock where it goes into the control arm. That is a known problem area. You should make sure that both bolts (on each side) will easily loosen prior to starting on the rears. Otherwise start with lots of PB Blaster penetrating oil before starting the work.

How is the ride up front? You need to go to the Stockton yard and pick up some parts such as the rear bumper ends I showed you. Only about an hour or so away from you and there's a bonanza of parts for you to pick up.


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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by captain awesome »

Much much better.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by ron »

songzunhuang wrote:
87Shark wrote: For example, I realized that removing the 3 bolts from the bottom of the strut tube is best done with the steering wheel at a few different angles. If the wheels are pointed straight ahead, you cannot get a clear shot at all the bolts since the other suspension assembles will force your socket wrench to come at odd angles. The bolts for holding the steering arm to the strut tube have oddly shallow heads so they are easy to round off. It took me a few tries to realize that you should turn the steering wheel to get to one of the bolts.
Song,
Did you know that these 3 bolts are fitted with a threadlock?
They are ALWAYS rustier than you thought!!!!!!
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by zinnocoupe »

What a difference, your car looks like a completely different beast now. Please comment of ride quality etc with the new springs. I have read the H&R springs can be very stiff and give a harsh ride( subjective I know) I feel my car on stock springs( I think) looks too high and is wallowy in corners, and would like to do something about it. Great work. I am jealous of your proximity to those great junk yards you guys down there have, and even better near a guru like Ralph! Nice work
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang »

ron wrote:
songzunhuang wrote:
87Shark wrote: For example, I realized that removing the 3 bolts from the bottom of the strut tube is best done with the steering wheel at a few different angles. If the wheels are pointed straight ahead, you cannot get a clear shot at all the bolts since the other suspension assembles will force your socket wrench to come at odd angles. The bolts for holding the steering arm to the strut tube have oddly shallow heads so they are easy to round off. It took me a few tries to realize that you should turn the steering wheel to get to one of the bolts.
Song,
Did you know that these 3 bolts are fitted with a threadlock?
Yup, I discovered that. Used some Locktite 270 to re-install.
I gotta say that a really long breaker bar is your friend in this process!
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Initial Impressions - Front's only

Post by songzunhuang »

OK, I have commuted in the car for 2 days now. My commute consists of a twisty drive over a mountain road. If you look up the road between Santa Cruz and San Jose, California you'll see that it's quite a drive! It called Highway 17 and it goes over the Santa Cruz Mountains.

Even though I have only done the front springs and shocks, there is a very noticeable difference. There is very little body roll now and the transitions from left to right turns are much more controlled. I can very confidently negotiate the turns without any wandering or wobbling when I hit imperfections in the road. My rear shocks come in tomorrow (Wed). I'm excited to see how it'll feel when all four corners are done.

Incidentally, when I finished the install last Sunday, I drove around the neighborhood including a few streets that have speed bumps on them. I noticed that the front suspension is pretty compliant when initially hitting the bumps. However, coming off the bump is a bit rough. A bit of a "crash". It's definitely not as compliant as the stock suspension.

So that's my initial impression. My rear bottoming out started all of this upgrade business. The rear hasn't been changed so I expect more improvements when it's swapped. I did check my dogbones and all bushings and they seem pretty solid with no play. Another thing I noticed is that in turns the car seems more "planted". It holds a line much better.

Also, the aluminum hubrings appear to have eliminated a vibration that I used to experience at around 55-65mph. I'm sure glad that's gone. It feels much better.

After this weekend I'll install the rears and then post more impressions.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang »

Ralph in Socal wrote:Nice work Song. Looks great up front now. A couple of tips for the rears. First install the snap rings at a middle groove. I always start in the middle so that I can go up or down after the install. You may even like the initial height so that you will not have to do any adjustment. Starting at the top or bottom will usually require an adjustment. Put anti-seize on the 1 bolt at the bottom of the shock where it goes into the control arm. That is a known problem area. You should make sure that both bolts (on each side) will easily loosen prior to starting on the rears. Otherwise start with lots of PB Blaster penetrating oil before starting the work.

How is the ride up front? You need to go to the Stockton yard and pick up some parts such as the rear bumper ends I showed you. Only about an hour or so away from you and there's a bonanza of parts for you to pick up.


Ralph
Thanks for the tips. Please see my impressions of the ride so far in another post.
I still need to get new front tires and that might make things better still! I'm trying to space out my purchases, lest I wreak the wrath of the wife.

Not sure when I can make it to Stockton, but we'll see. So how do these pick-n-pull yards price their parts? Any hints on what to expect?
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by zinnocoupe »

I'm trying to space out my purchases, lest I wreak the wrath of the wife.

LOL I can relate, Its like a bit of a game at my place. As long as I don't spend a lot at one time I stay under the radar. \:D/ Just nice steady spending keeps me out of the evil eye! :evil: Of course I have to hold my tongue on those clothing etc purchases and pretend I like whatever it is. What a life :lol: Your first reports sound good, should be interesting to see what the rears do for your ride.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by baders »

I guess wives have other benefits (I'm happily single), but I spend as much time as I want, doing what I want, when I want :D

Great work on the 6 Song !
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Bilstien rears are in - and different?

Post by songzunhuang »

Ah, I came back from a long day to find my Bilstien rears had arrived. I opened them up just to inspect them and touch them. You know how it is. I noticed something surprising. Most pictures that I have seen of Bilstein sports have 4 adjustment positions with the default set at the highest position. Mine had 6! Is this something new?
Look! There are 6 adjustment positions on these Bilsteins.
Look! There are 6 adjustment positions on these Bilsteins.
RearShock.jpg (173.52 KiB) Viewed 8047 times
Of course other stuff came in as well. I've got the bump stops and also some spring seats. It'll all go in this weekend.
Also note that they painted the shocks with the ring on the top. In this picture I moved the ring down to the 3rd from the bottom and you can see the unpainted top position.
All the parts and the adjusted position. ALl ready for the weekend.
All the parts and the adjusted position. ALl ready for the weekend.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by captain awesome »

I'm pretty sure mine has the same amount of grooves.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by Ralph in Socal »

I have no idea when they increased to 6 grooves but the bad set of shocks I have also have 6 grooves. Previously there were only 5 grooves but that was some time ago.

Song - the Pick and Pull franchise is having a 50% Off Sale next weekend but actually starts on Feb 10 (Wed) and runs until Monday the 15th. For their "Toolkit Members" only but it's easy to sign up. The 84 5-speed car had some recent suspension work as the Dog Bones were in nice shape. The steering linkage also appeared to be in very good condition. I did pull the pedal set and I was getting ready to pull the shifter but I got lazy after pulling a trans and rear diff from another car. Driveshaft was also recent as it was very clean.

You'll find me there on one of the sale days!!


Ralph
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

85 635csi Zinno Auto
84 528i Euro
83 635 Euro Arktik
81 528i Kastanien 5-speed
88 528e Bronzit (Granpa Car)
86 535i Auto (For Sale)
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Rear H&R with Bilsteins In!

Post by songzunhuang »

Ok, this morning was fun. Josh, the guy I bought the car from, came to my house in the morning and helped me to put the rears into the car. It was nice having help to fasten the tops of the shocks in the trunk while I held everything in place. The entire operation with 2 people took around 3 hours for both sides. This was MUCH faster than the fronts.

In the picture below, you can see Josh in the trunk of the car to loosed the three top mounting bolts.
Josh is in the trunk of the car taking care of the tip while I ....take a picture. It was great having someone up top when I was lifting the new assembly into place.
Josh is in the trunk of the car taking care of the tip while I ....take a picture. It was great having someone up top when I was lifting the new assembly into place.
JoshTrunk.png (1018.72 KiB) Viewed 7993 times
The bump stops in my car were beyond shot! more than half of it was completely missing. Disintegrated from all the years of use I guess. Here you can see the condition it was in Ha, ha!
The new bumpstop is nice and clean and about 3 times thicker than the old, which is basically gone! Also I was surprised that the new springs were about the same height (if not a bit higher) than stock!
The new bumpstop is nice and clean and about 3 times thicker than the old, which is basically gone! Also I was surprised that the new springs were about the same height (if not a bit higher) than stock!
BumpShot.png (859.69 KiB) Viewed 7993 times
Here's the entire assembly installed in the car. The rears are much easier to do than the fronts. I was b.s.ing with Josh the whole time and not going real fast. Still, we completed the 2nd shock inside of an hour.
Here's the nice new assembly with all the bits in place. Looking forward to a nice driving car.
Here's the nice new assembly with all the bits in place. Looking forward to a nice driving car.
Done.png (1009.34 KiB) Viewed 7993 times
OK, with all the parts in place, I had to take it for another drive through the mountain roads near my house. There was crazy traffic on the freeway, so I went into the mountains.
This is a beautiful mountain road near my place. What a great way to test the new suspension!
This is a beautiful mountain road near my place. What a great way to test the new suspension!
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The car feels great. I wasn't doing real high speed so I can't tell you how it is in ultimate performance, but on the twisty mountain road it was great. The car feels much more controlled and I never bottomed out! Fantastic.
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Stance with new suspension

Post by songzunhuang »

Here's a picture below of the before and after. As it turns out, it's about the same stance as the sagging stock springs, but I wanted the same stance. I actually adjusted the new Bilstiens to match the height of the old. I liked the height of the rear. Turns out I was within 1/4" when done. I measured just under 14" from hub to fender with the old. After the new, it's right at 14". Looking good. The picture on top has the new front suspension in place, but the older rears. This was the previous weekend. The picture, below has all the new suspension in place.
Old rears up top, new on the bottom. I liked how it sat before so I kept it as close as possible to the previous height.
Old rears up top, new on the bottom. I liked how it sat before so I kept it as close as possible to the previous height.
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'

Since I was in an open lot, I thought I would get a quick front 3/4 shot. The car isn't so clean but I wanted a picture anyway.
Great sunny day for an inpromptu photo session.
Great sunny day for an inpromptu photo session.
Front 3-4.png (919.29 KiB) Viewed 7992 times
Here's the backside.
Here's the backside.
Rear 3-4.png (935.57 KiB) Viewed 7992 times
So now, I think I need to replace that darn dogbones. They looked great upon first inspection, but when I looked underneath and from the opposite sides, I can see that they are not in such good shape. Oh well, next project.
From below and the inside, you can see that the dogbones are in fact in questionable shape.
From below and the inside, you can see that the dogbones are in fact in questionable shape.
Screen Shot 2016-02-06 at 2.59.19 PM.png (984.8 KiB) Viewed 7992 times
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by captain awesome »

Good work Song. I found the rear seats and parcel shelf being removed made loosening of the 3 nuts holding the rear shocks much quicker. I doubt you will need to get in there again, but it was time well spent as you can gain access to all three nuts from above and loosen with ease.
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