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1984 633CSi Rises again!

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dwcains
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by dwcains » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:07 am

Removing the oil pan is how you drain the transmission fluid. Once the pan is off, you replace the filter csreen, put the pan back on, and add new fluid. It's a messy job, because as you loosen the bolts on the pan the fluid begins to pour out, but it's a simple job, and I don't know what your mechanic is talking about,
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Head Gasket leak - in pictures

Post by songzunhuang » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:10 pm

Well, today I visited the shop and saw for myself the condition of everything on my car. I definitely had a failed head gasket at cylinder #6. It didn't look catastrophic, but it's so clear when you see it all apart.

First, here's a shot of the block and pistons. It's pretty darn obvious which one had liquid bathing it and keeping it "clean".
Pistons.JPG
Cylinder #6 is clearly cleaner than the rest. Thanks to the coolant bath.
Pistons.JPG (243.61 KiB) Viewed 709 times
Now here's a shot of the failed head gasket. It's in the upper right where the circle is no longer true. It's not a huge chunk or anything, but clearly enough for me to lose a few cups of coolant every 50 miles. Look closely and you can see where the reenforced ring deviates.
Gasket Fail.jpeg
Failure area in upper right.
Gasket Fail.jpeg (233.04 KiB) Viewed 709 times
For completeness, here's a shot of the cylinder head and valves. It is being sent out to be pressure tested for any cracks and then it'll be milled 0.01" to make sure it's absolutely true. The new gasket will be slightly oversized to make up for the milling. These guys appear to be doing everything in an exacting manner.
Head.jpg
Shot of the valves. Head looks solid.
Head.jpg (288.78 KiB) Viewed 709 times
While everything was open, I checkout out the timing chain guides for the car and it looks solid still. I'm going to leave it alone since it'd be a lot more work to change.
Guides.JPG
Timing chain guides look solid. Leaving them alone.
Guides.JPG (275.25 KiB) Viewed 709 times
So it's good to know the exact condition of everything on the car. All of the parts look really good with no signs for alarm. I was afraid that the 5 years of sitting no-op may have resulted in serious issue that would be revealed when it was opened up. I am so glad that's not the case. OK, I should have the car back in about 2 days.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by GRNSHRK » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:10 pm

Song, make sure they take 0.010" off the upper timing cover as well [-o<

Looks pretty normal otherwise, glad you're getting that "mystery" coolant leak sorted =D>

Don't think there are many more stones to turn over on your 6er now #-o

:mrgreen:
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by tschultz » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:06 pm

May failure late last year was also cyl #6 coolant leak.

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:18 am

tschultz wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:06 pm
May failure late last year was also cyl #6 coolant leak.
I have been told that this is common due to the higher temperatures that the rear cylinder experiences. OK, that makes sense. Still, what a pain to deal with. Oh well.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by TBM » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:58 am

songzunhuang wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:18 am
tschultz wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:06 pm
May failure late last year was also cyl #6 coolant leak.
I have been told that this is common due to the higher temperatures that the rear cylinder experiences. OK, that makes sense. Still, what a pain to deal with. Oh well.
The only way to prevent that is to install an E34 B36 water pump pulley. They under sized it to 102mm vs 144mm for your car...that translates to 30% smaller pulley. I did it on my M88 and it ran much cooler immediately. It was designed that way purposely by BMW because of that exact issue.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw ... 511315202/ Very cheap insurance.
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:35 am

TBM wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:58 am
songzunhuang wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:18 am
tschultz wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:06 pm
May failure late last year was also cyl #6 coolant leak.
I have been told that this is common due to the higher temperatures that the rear cylinder experiences. OK, that makes sense. Still, what a pain to deal with. Oh well.
The only way to prevent that is to install an E34 B36 water pump pulley. They under sized it to 102mm vs 144mm for your car...that translates to 30% smaller pulley. I did it on my M88 and it ran much cooler immediately. It was designed that way purposely by BMW because of that exact issue.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw ... 511315202/ Very cheap insurance.
Interesting, that makes sense as it'll circulate at a higher rate since the pump will turn faster. OK, something I'll consider. I've already put a lower temp thermostat in there. That helped a bit too. Thanks.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Head Gasket replacement cost

Post by songzunhuang » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:44 am

So I picked up my car today from the independent repair shop. On the 12 mile drive home the car seems to be doing well. I have learned to withhold a final determination until I have driven it for a week or so. However, here was the breakdown in cost for those who might be curious.

Labor:
Head removal and gasket replacement: $1,500
Head resurface and pressure test: $125
Tranny Fluid & filter change: $120

Parts:
Head Gasket & various gasket kit: $290.46
It included new exhaust shields a few locating dowels, exhaust gaskets and miscellaneous other things.
Coolant & oil: $60.44

Tax: $28.95

Grand total = $2004.85

After I got home, I let the car run a bit and made note of a few things.
  • The valve train is a lot quieter than before. It sounds less like a mechanical sewing machine.
  • There was no rough idle on startup, probably because there was no coolant to burn off.
  • Everything is nice and clean. Good to see that they appeared to clean up various areas as they installed parts.
The temp gauge was dead center, which was a bit of surprise since I changed to a lower temp thermostat. It used to run slightly under the middle. But I had also replaced the temp sensor so maybe it's reading differently. In any case, I'm just going to drive the car now and enjoy it.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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raykoke
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by raykoke » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:24 am

Ouch.

Here's to not doing that again. ;-)

Glad it's back for you!

Cheers,

Ray
'85 ///M635

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Inspecting the work in the daylight

Post by songzunhuang » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:18 am

So today I finally looked at the car in the daylight. Overall, the independent shop did a really good job. There were a few odd things that I noticed that bugged me. I am documenting all the stiff here.

First. I took a picture of the clean engine compartment, but then I noticed something really weird. The oil filler cap! Mine was nicely finished in black. I know because I did it myself when I got the car. It looked liked they got the filler cap mixed up with another car in the shop. The one on my car was all old looking with much of the black flaked off. Well, that will not do! I commenced to refinishing the cap. I also noticed that one of the stainless steel acorn nuts was missing and that one of the other acorns was an old weathered piece! I went to the store and got replacement stainless acorn nuts.
Screen Shot 2017-11-04 at 6.06.52 PM.png
Refinished oil filler cap so it looks nice.
Screen Shot 2017-11-04 at 6.06.52 PM.png (1.14 MiB) Viewed 632 times
Next on the list was something that was a nice surprise. I didn't get a picture of my reconditioned cylinder head before they put it back on. When I was refinishing the oil filler cap, I got a glimpse of the valve train through the filler hole and noticed that it was super clean! My valve train was all brown colored the last time I adjusted the valves. This time, it looked immaculate! Nice to know that they fixed it all up even though you can't see it! I like the attention to detail in that way.
IMG_4360.JPG
Look at the nice clean valve train! It was all brown before.
IMG_4360.JPG (151.21 KiB) Viewed 632 times
I also liked that they replaced my heat shields with new ones. You can see the new shields installed on the exhaust manifold here.
IMG_4364.JPG
Nice new exhaust shields.
IMG_4364.JPG (199.03 KiB) Viewed 632 times
Finally, my last minute approval to change the tranny filter and fluid which was a lot less money than originally estimated piqued my curiosity. I looked under the car to see if access to the tranny oil pan was so hard as initially stated. Well, of course, it wasn't! However, it looks like they really cleaned it up! I didn't realize it was that color metal!
IMG_4352.JPG
Nice clean tranny oil pan.
IMG_4352.JPG (137.55 KiB) Viewed 632 times
Overall I am very happy with the work performed. I am concerned that they put on the wrong oil filler cap and also missed a few of my acorn nuts fastening the valve cover. Also, I was using Xerex Gold coolant. They put in green stuff. Not a big deal I guess, but I intentionally used the Xerex gold at a cost of $20 a gallon. Oh well, in the scheme of things all is still well.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Quick paint touchup - window frame

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:43 am

So today I cruised around in my newly fixed e24 for no particular reason. I ran errands and generally took the long way home. As I was getting in and out of the car, something bothered me. The paint on the frame around the window was all oxidized. I have been meaning to fix this. OK, today is the day.

First I sanded the trim with 400 grit. Then wet sanded with 800. Wiped it off with lacquer thinner and then masked it up.
IMG_4374.jpg
First pass with just blue masking tape. Masking paper later.
IMG_4374.jpg (209.72 KiB) Viewed 593 times
I had some Dark Gray metallic paint lying around. Let's see if this works well. The color of the trim seemed a bit darker than the color of the car. Perhaps it won't be so noticeable.
IMG_4376.jpg
This color seems pretty close to the right one.
IMG_4376.jpg (194.53 KiB) Viewed 593 times
Of course, the passenger side had the same issues, so I had to do that side as well.
IMG_4384.jpg
Passenger side after a coat was applied.
IMG_4384.jpg (176.03 KiB) Viewed 593 times
After I shot 3 coats on each side, I took it all apart and I must say it looked pretty spot on. It almost looks like a dead ringer for the original body color!
IMG_4386.jpg
All done on the passenger side. Painted window frame.
IMG_4386.jpg (175.03 KiB) Viewed 593 times
It feels good to do a little thing here or there to make the car nicer.
Tomorrow I begin my normal commute to work. It'll be the test of the new head gasket and tranny service. I have high hopes that all will be well.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by ron » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:38 am

The original paint was Nogaro silver #243.
They are ALWAYS rustier than you thought!!!!!!
'88 High line.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by sansouci » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:50 pm

Regarding the tendency of the #6 to overheat: Since the block drain is between #5 and #6, is it feasible to plumb in an "auxiliary" cooling line into the opening? Make it a bit more useful. Perhaps use a thin copper tube and take it off the 12mm screw plug on top of the T-stat housing. Not a fully baked idea, but it could start others to thinking. $10 of copper and fittings vs $2k of repair woes.

I should have deferred to Brucey who posted on this topic Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:59 pm with diagrams, pictures, etc.

Time to show some love to that oil filter housing!
Ken
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 535i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:04 am

ron wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:38 am
The original paint was Nogaro silver #243.
Thanks, if I ever want to go back to factory spec, I now know what to do.
I took a more revealing picture of the difference. The new paint I applied is on the left.
IMG_4379.JPG
New paint on left, old paint on right.
IMG_4379.JPG (202.34 KiB) Viewed 473 times
This is in direct bright sunlight. It's hard to tell the difference in less harsh lighting.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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There goes my Steering Box bracket

Post by songzunhuang » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:41 am

Well, the steady state for my car didn't last long. As I pulled my car out to drive to work, I hear a loud crack sound when I turned the wheel. This was then accompanied by a clunk as I turned the wheel. I drove to work anyway and noticed my steering wheel was now cranked oddly and no longer straight. Finally, on Saturday (today) I got to take a look and figure out the issue. It didn't take very long.

I had my daughter turn the wheel and I could hear and see the issue. The steering box mount had cracked clean through.
Here's the view looking from above. I cleaned the area up a bit so you can see the metal and the crack.
Bracket Cracked.png
Cracked steering box from above.
Bracket Cracked.png (1.1 MiB) Viewed 426 times
Crawling under the car, it was harder to get a good shot. I finally put a paper towel behind the assembly to give a contrasting background. You can see the crack very clearly now. I also cranked the steering wheel a bit to make the crack widen.
Screen Shot 2017-11-11 at 6.34.57 PM.png
Crack steering box from below.
Screen Shot 2017-11-11 at 6.34.57 PM.png (1019.49 KiB) Viewed 426 times
So I had 4 good days of driving after my head gasket replacement. Now this. Although it's clunky, I wonder if it's ok to drive the car still. What do you all think?

I've written Ed at Mwrench.com as I think he has a kit to repair this. I'm not sure how active he is nowdays. Are there other sources for a kit to fix this?
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by hornhospital » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:06 am

I wouldn't drive it. You risk it coming apart further, with possible disastrous consequences.
Ken Kanne
'84 633CSi "Sylvia"; '85 635CSi "Katja";'87 325is "Odette"; '93 325is "Elvira"

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by sansouci » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:27 pm

Ssong,
Matthewdesigns just did a steering box repair so it is likely Ed is still making them available.
Can the bracket itself be welded where it failed as a stopgap?
--Ken
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 535i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:03 am

sansouci wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:27 pm
Ssong,
Matthewdesigns just did a steering box repair so it is likely Ed is still making them available.
Can the bracket itself be welded where it failed as a stopgap?
--Ken
I am glad to report that Ed is active and responsive. I wrote him yesterday and got a response today. I've sent him payment and I'll get the fix soon. It's a good thing because I was looking at the pictures that I took and then I noticed this!
IMG_4462.JPG
My steering bracket is completely toast.
IMG_4462.JPG (220.43 KiB) Viewed 368 times
Yup, I only thought it was broken on top. Looking closely at the picture I noticed it was broken at the bottom too. Basically, there is nothing holding this in place anymore. The car is parked until I get the kit and have it repaired. I had 4 days after the major engine service to fix the head gasket before something else broke. Sigh... surely I am running out of things to fix? Haha! LOL!
Last edited by songzunhuang on Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by raykoke » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:51 am

I was going to say that you've worked out 98% of the bugs in that car.

I won't jinx you by outlining the remaining 2%.

:D
'85 ///M635

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sansouci
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by sansouci » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:53 pm

Song,
Where's all the oil slime coming from?
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 535i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by baders » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:08 pm

sansouci wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:53 pm
Song,
Where's all the oil slime coming from?
The BMW rust prevention system of course !!
1986 635csi LOCUTUS
Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige
S38B36/Close ratio dogleg 5sp
Perth Australia.

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:03 pm

sansouci wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:53 pm
Song,
Where's all the oil slime coming from?
I am sure that was leftover from the Front Mail Seal issue I had when I first got the car. It was spewing oil everywhere. The leak would trickle onto the balancer which would fling it all over the place. Notice its all covered in gunk from dirt buildup over the years. I just never had reason to do much cleaning in that area. Well that's changed now. I had vowed one day to detail the heck out of the underside, bit just never go to it. There's always something broken on the top side!

I like Baders response better. It's BMW rust prevention!
After I get the kit to fix this, I'll clean the heck out of the area too.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:05 pm

hornhospital wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:06 am
I wouldn't drive it. You risk it coming apart further, with possible disastrous consequences.
As you can see, it has come apart further and I didn't have to drive it anywhere! How convenient.
It's all dark in there and when I first inspected it in the evening, I didn't see the broken lower bracket. It wasn't until I went back and looked at the pictures I took that I noticed. Sheesh.
Last edited by songzunhuang on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by zinnocoupe » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:44 pm

raykoke wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:51 am
I was going to say that you've worked out 98% of the bugs in that car.

I won't jinx you by outlining the remaining 2%.

:D
Very accurate, It seems like you are basically doing everything and documenting it all. Others would have thrown in the towel. Great work Song. Of all the postings etc I've seen you sure show a lot of determination.
1987 635csi
1979 Euro 635ci no longer a basketcase, just a running rust bucket!
1977 530i New addition ( nonrunner)

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Ed's Steering Box Fix - Excellent

Post by songzunhuang » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:29 am

So I met up with Ed at this home and had a great time talking shop! He's a car guy through and through. However, the reason I went there was to pickup the Steering Box fix that he manufactures. This piece is amazing and exceeded my expectations. It's created on a CNC machine and the finish is amazing.
SteeringBox Fix.png
Ed's Steering Box fix. It is excellent.
SteeringBox Fix.png (657.42 KiB) Viewed 262 times
I can see how this piece is going to be a stellar fix. My bracket is completely gone and with this fix, I can just throw out the broken bracket and use this CNC machined piece. I thought it was going to be a long bolt, but no! The top of that steel dowel has the threads for the screw machined into it. And it's not just the wall thickness of the steel dowel, but almost an inch of threads to grip the bolt. I am just admiring the worksmanship before I actually install it.

If you don't have this already for your e24 or e28, you should get it ASAP. You'll never have to worry about your steering box bracket ever again. Email Ed at ed@mwrench.com and just get it!

OK, I have to arrange to get this welded after I install it. That's my goal for this week. I need to get the car back in action.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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