1984 633CSi Rises again!

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dwcains
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Post by dwcains »

I think those solder joints fail with the passage of time, same as the ones in the ECU. I had a few bad-looking ones in my instrument cluster, too, and did the same repairs.
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Post by songzunhuang »

sansouci wrote:Song,
In your Solder2.png, do you think this was a manufacturing defect or could this develop over time?
It was self inflicted. There were a few joints that may have gotten "cold" over time, but my first attempt at re-flowing the joints was a disaster. The picture was after my attempted repair before I knew anything.

After more research and lots of YouTube videos, I did it again correctly.

The factory solder joints are pretty good. Over time I think little cracks occurred that would compromise continuous conductivity. I believe that was causing a lot of the intermittent issues. However, this all started with my useless SI board. The attempts to fix that (original disaster) started a cascading effect until I just bought a new SI board.

If I knew then what I know now, I think I may have been able to fix my original SI board.
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Changing out the locks is not so easy...

Post by songzunhuang »

Wow, it was one of those annoying days. I spend over 2 hours messing with my driver's side door lock and I never got it to work. Let me try and explain.

After getting a bag of locks from Ralph, I was able to get a barrel and wafers all set up to work with my key. So far so good. I studied the different locks that Ralph sent me and felt I understood pretty well how it work. Most of the locks had the nylon parts, but there was one lock in the bag of locks that was metal and was marked as a e28 lock.

So today I opened up my car and wallah, I had a metal version with the metal "L" bracket. Mine was not like any of the locks I studied so carefully. OK, I thought I could still figure it out.

First I removed the metal "L" shaped pin. The metal acutator lever came off. I saw that my spring was loose in there. It turns out that one of the "pins" had broken off and there was no spring tension. I later learned that even the base piece containing the spring was missing a metal part. I am not sure what it does, but maybe it's the reason why my key wold just spin the lock sometimes.

So I then put my key in the lock to extract it. When I pulled, a piece of the barrel fell off, along with the spring and bearings. :( This was starting to get challenging.

I removed the C-clip, which fell behind some metal in the door and I could not for the life of me see or reach it! I did get the lock barrel out finally.

I took the assembly inside and looked at the bag of locks to try and figure out how it was supposed to be assembled and to see if I had the four missing/broken parts in Ralph's bag of locks. I was missing,

1. C-Clip (Yeah, there was a spare in the bag o'locks
2. Broken spring
3. Broken base for spring
4. ball bearings and spring

So the good news is that I appeared to have the parts needed. However, I spent over an hour trying to figure out how to reassemble the lock in the barrel and make it all work. It appears that the e28 tolerances are just slightly different from the e24 because I couldn't get a complete assembly together that worked. How do you get those ball-bearings and springs back into the assembly?

By now, it was getting dark. I threw all my disassembled door parts into the car and closed it up. There's a big hole where the lock is supposed to be and I am going to have to think about this some more.

So frustrating. I won't be able to get to this again for several days.... I guess next week I'll be commuting in a different car.
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Post by sansouci »

Song,
Sort of like a jigsaw puzzle without a cover picture and it's missing parts.
BTW, the word is voila, French for "there it is."
Sansouci
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Post by baders »

Welcome to the ever frustrating world of BMW door locks. My only advice at this stage is to not give up and read my posts on the subject.
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Post by songzunhuang »

sansouci wrote:Song,
Sort of like a jigsaw puzzle without a cover picture and it's missing parts.
BTW, the word is voila, French for "there it is."
Those d#$! ball bearings. I must have searched for those 5 or six times whenever then decided to pop into the atmosphere. Also one of my lock wafers dropped into a garden bed. That was a trick finding it amongst all the plants. One of my springs got destroyed and I had to take one out of the bag o' locks from Ralph. Sheesh.
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Post by songzunhuang »

baders wrote:Welcome to the ever frustrating world of BMW door locks. My only advice at this stage is to not give up and read my posts on the subject.
I read everything I could find on this. One thing I wish was that there was a way to replace the older lockset with a new one. the ones with the plastic levers are so much simpler to deal with. However, the parts I had would not allow for the correct acutation of the microswitch when the key was turned.

If there's a particular posting you think I need to read more carefully, please send a link. Although I read all I could find, sometimes I don't find everything. OK, I need a break from this to ponder my next step. I fear that I will have to remove the barrel and C-Clip once again to fiddle with the bearing and springs, etc. Not fun.
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Post by Ralph in Socal »

songzunhuang wrote:
sansouci wrote:Song,
Sort of like a jigsaw puzzle without a cover picture and it's missing parts.
BTW, the word is voila, French for "there it is."
Those d#$! ball bearings. I must have searched for those 5 or six times whenever then decided to pop into the atmosphere. Also one of my lock wafers dropped into a garden bed. That was a trick finding it amongst all the plants. One of my springs got destroyed and I had to take one out of the bag o' locks from Ralph. Sheesh.
Look carefully at the hole where the bearings and spring go in. The hole is a little offset to allow for the end piece to retain one ball while you push down the other side with a small flat tip driver. You can then slide the end piece completely over the ball you are holding down.

It seems that you are working with the barrel still installed on the car? Much easier if you remove the lock barrel assembly from the car. Do your repairs in a large plastic bag so you don't lose parts then install the completed lock barrel when it's all together.

Ralph

Edit: Looking at the small end piece of the assembly, there is a small hole on one side of it. It appears to be the perfect size to slip the ball bearing and spring into the hole during assembly.

Links (lots of links in the bimmerforums thread):

viewtopic.php?t=7374

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showt ... -Lock-Help
Attachments
Completed Lock set
Completed Lock set
08 84 Driver Side Metal Actuating Arm.JPG (154.93 KiB) Viewed 10784 times
Parts
Parts
08 84 Driver Side Taken Apart.JPG (153.87 KiB) Viewed 10784 times
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

85 635csi Zinno Auto
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Post by sansouci »

"Do your repairs in a large plastic bag so you don't lose parts"

Great idea. Those 1-gallon zip locks can come in handy....
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
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Post by songzunhuang »

Ralph in Socal wrote:
songzunhuang wrote:
sansouci wrote:Song,

Look carefully at the hole where the bearings and spring go in. The hole is a little offset to allow for the end piece to retain one ball while you push down the other side with a small flat tip driver. You can then slide the end piece completely over the ball you are holding down.

It seems that you are working with the barrel still installed on the car? Much easier if you remove the lock barrel assembly from the car. Do your repairs in a large plastic bag so you don't lose parts then install the completed lock barrel when it's all together.

Ralph

Edit: Looking at the small end piece of the assembly, there is a small hole on one side of it. It appears to be the perfect size to slip the ball bearing and spring into the hole during assembly.

Links (lots of links in the bimmerforums thread):

viewtopic.php?t=7374

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showt ... -Lock-Help
Ralph, yeah towards the end I was working with the barrel in the car. It was such a b$%#h to get the C-clip back in that I was hesitant to take it out (and lose another clip) again. I realize now that I need to remove it again. I stuffed a paper towel in the slot where the first C-Clip fell into the door. Hopefully I won't lose another.

In the picture below, you can see all the issues that I found with my lockset. I may be able to carefully bend the metal L-clip to work again. I'll just have to take my time I guess.

Also, thanks for the hint about the ball bearing install. I was wondering about that hole. I'll have to give it a try. Funny that my lock was so full of gunk that when the end piece fell off, the ball bearings were still "stuck" in the lock due to dirt and gooey gunk. So I didn't lose those bearings.
Attachments
All the parts that were messed up in my lock are labeled. This picture supplied by Ralph is a good lockset. Mine wasn't in such good shape.
All the parts that were messed up in my lock are labeled. This picture supplied by Ralph is a good lockset. Mine wasn't in such good shape.
Screen Shot 2015-11-30 at 9.40.13 AM.png (1.45 MiB) Viewed 10768 times
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Post by Ralph in Socal »

Please confirm that those are all the parts you need. I have a spare end piece here and you should be able to use the spring and L-tab from the e-28 unit. Thanks

I can also send you more C-clips!!

Ralph
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

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Post by songzunhuang »

Ralph in Socal wrote:Please confirm that those are all the parts you need. I have a spare end piece here and you should be able to use the spring and L-tab from the e-28 unit. Thanks

I can also send you more C-clips!!

Ralph
Ralph, I think I am ok with C-Clips as long as I don't lose the last one I have. I noticed there was another C-Clip in your box o'locks, but it was actually a different size. It's a bit larger than the one in my car. I'll try and get a side by side picture when I take off the lock barrel again.

As for the part with the broken tab, there was a spare that seemed to be exactly the same size. I'll know more when I tinker later this week. See attached picture.

The one thing I could use is another metal "L" clip, Mine is bent oddly and will not fit easily in the slot, I fear that when I try to bend it to shape, it'll snap like the other one that was in the box o'locks.
Attachments
Here's the metal part out of my car (right) compared to the one from another lock assembly (left). Also, the L-tab has seen better days.
Here's the metal part out of my car (right) compared to the one from another lock assembly (left). Also, the L-tab has seen better days.
Screen Shot 2015-11-30 at 12.29.19 PM.png (1.18 MiB) Viewed 10738 times
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Post by Ralph in Socal »

Can you use the L-tab from the e28 unit? You have to push it out from the flat end instead of pulling on the tab end.

That is the same small end piece I have here.

Ralph

EDIT: The C clip should be easy to remove and install. Add a little lubricant and use a large screwdriver to pry it out. Use the end of a long 1/4 drive extension to push it in. Remember that the car will still lock and unlock even if you don't have a barrel in place. Removing the actuating arm will allow you to still lock and unlock from the trunk and still be able to open your door with the exterior handle. You can just put a dummy barrel in place to make it look normal while you work on your barrel.
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

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84 528i Euro
83 635 Euro Arktik
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88 528e Bronzit (Granpa Car)
86 535i Auto (For Sale)
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Post by songzunhuang »

Ralph in Socal wrote:Can you use the L-tab from the e28 unit? You have to push it out from the flat end instead of pulling on the tab end.

That is the same small end piece I have here.

Ralph

EDIT: The C clip should be easy to remove and install. Add a little lubricant and use a large screwdriver to pry it out. Use the end of a long 1/4 drive extension to push it in. Remember that the car will still lock and unlock even if you don't have a barrel in place. Removing the actuating arm will allow you to still lock and unlock from the trunk and still be able to open your door with the exterior handle. You can just put a dummy barrel in place to make it look normal while you work on your barrel.
Ralph, that broken L-clip in the picture is the one from the e28. It was twisted badly when I got it. I tried to untwist it and that's when it broke. I do have the L-clip from my door, but I made the mistake of trying to straighten it out. Now I can't get it to go into the slot. I'll have to carefully bend it to avoid snapping it in two. I am concerned that the metal doesn't seem too strong and it's the only thing actuating the lock lever!

Getting the C-clip out wasn't an issue. It's getting it back in that is challenging as hell. The first one I removed was the one that fell into the door into a place where there are to layers of steel. I cannot for the life of me reach it and I can't see it.

Question for you. If I was to assemble the complete lock outside of the car with the lock heater and the L-Clip in place, can I rotate it enough to fit it into the door? It occurred to me that I didn't try to remove the entire thing intact. If I unfastened the rod going down to the door latch, I should be able to rotate the entire lock assembly right?

Anyway, can't stop thinking about this even though I am at work and should be focused on other stuff. ;)
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Post by Ralph in Socal »

The entire assembly as pictured above and captioned Completed Lock Set will install from the inside of the door into the door handle. Removal of the C-clip and actuating rod allows the assembly to rotate 90 degrees (clockwise inside the door) then pop inside of the door with a little push. There is a very small e-clip (sometimes a sandwich clip) holding the rod end to the latch.

The L-tab is shaped specifically to go into the slot of the barrel. I would not venture to try and force it in as that will put undue stress on the end that breaks off easily already. Let me see about finding you a good replacement.


Ralph
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

85 635csi Zinno Auto
84 528i Euro
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81 528i Kastanien 5-speed
88 528e Bronzit (Granpa Car)
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Post by GripGreg »

Song
To find that 'c' clip maybe get a small flashlight from Autozone or wherever and a smaller mirror.
Use either a two ft. coiled retriever with a claw & plunger or a magnet.
It's worth a try. :wink:
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Root cause of my Door failure

Post by songzunhuang »

So one of the things i do religiously is take pictures while I work. I do this not only to be able to share, but it also allows me to study things after I educate myself a bit more. Lastly, it helps to inform me how to put things back together.

I realized something about my drivers door lock after studying the picture below. There was a time that my key worked in the driver's door although not reliably. After a while it would just spin around and not do anything.

Look closely at the picture and you can see that when the lock was turned, the "L-Pin" is supposed to catch the lever that transfers the motion to the actual door lock. In the picture, you can see that the L-pin has slipped out just far enough that it will not move the lever. That was the root cause of my lock not working!

Of course, there are a few other items as well. My return spring and the metal tab that it mounted on, which also limited the turning motion, was also broken. All these added to the issue.

Finally, when I removed the key barrel, there was so much dirt and gunk in the barrel that the lock wafers didn't all move smoothly. That was the final issue that prevented my key from turning the barrel. So now I know all the issues. I am going to reassemble the unit, re-keyed and with everything I know now to get this fixed once and for all. Thursday..... taking 1/2 day off from work to finish this.
Attachments
Root cause of my door lock failure? The L-Pin that was supposed to transfer motion to the lever has slipped out just enough to be ineffective.
Root cause of my door lock failure? The L-Pin that was supposed to transfer motion to the lever has slipped out just enough to be ineffective.
Screen Shot 2015-12-01 at 12.15.08 PM.png (1.77 MiB) Viewed 10581 times
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Song Huang
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Post by songzunhuang »

GripGreg wrote:Song
To find that 'c' clip maybe get a small flashlight from Autozone or wherever and a smaller mirror.
Use either a two ft. coiled retriever with a claw & plunger or a magnet.
It's worth a try. :wink:
Got a small extension mirror that has a magnet at the end. I also have a extension claw thing. I'll see what I can figure out.

The last time I looked, it was clear that there were two layers of steel in the door and the clip seems to have fallen in between the layers. The layers are close enough together that I can't seem to get anything to go in between them, well except a piece of a paper towel that I stuffed in there now to prevent the only remaining C-clip I have from experiencing the same fate.

I'll keep trying this evening. Issue is that it's dark and cold when I get home now. The car is parked outside and it's hard to work on comfortably at night.
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Driver's Side Lock Assembly Complete

Post by songzunhuang »

Big tip! Complete the entire assembly outside of the car! May be obvious to everyone, but I thought I would just say it. It took me a while to figure it out.

Getting it back in isn't so hard. I've included the numbered step by step. Follow the steps and you can get it out or back in inside of 15 minutes.

So with the excellent advice of Ralph, I was able to get the ball bearings into place. The hole in the last metal sleeve definitely helped to get the assembly in place. Read the notes in the picture for hints.

Finally, I had to carefully rebend the L-clip to get it all to work. It works great with my key and I am anxious to get it in the car! It's late and dark right now. More later.
Attachments
Clip the plastic ties holding the wires and follow the steps in this picture. #1 unplug the heater, #2 unplug the microswitch, #3 remove the E-Clip, The C-Clip in step 4 is removed by pushing it to the left. After the clip is off, rotate the entire assemb
Clip the plastic ties holding the wires and follow the steps in this picture. #1 unplug the heater, #2 unplug the microswitch, #3 remove the E-Clip, The C-Clip in step 4 is removed by pushing it to the left. After the clip is off, rotate the entire assemb
Procedure.png (1.6 MiB) Viewed 10547 times
The lower spring retainer is put in place first, then rotate the upper retainer around with tension. The idea is that it's to be on either side of the L-clip.
The lower spring retainer is put in place first, then rotate the upper retainer around with tension. The idea is that it's to be on either side of the L-clip.
Spring in place.png (1.46 MiB) Viewed 10547 times
After the bearings are in place opposite each other, you can put on the spring, lever and then slip in the L-Clip.
After the bearings are in place opposite each other, you can put on the spring, lever and then slip in the L-Clip.
Bearing In.png (1.29 MiB) Viewed 10547 times
Line up the hole and drop in a bearing and a spring. Drop the last bearing in place and press it down with a tiny screwdriver. Then slowly raise and rotate the metal piece until it is in the right place in the slot.
Line up the hole and drop in a bearing and a spring. Drop the last bearing in place and press it down with a tiny screwdriver. Then slowly raise and rotate the metal piece until it is in the right place in the slot.
Bearing Hole.png (1.15 MiB) Viewed 10547 times
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Remote lock & Unlock

Post by songzunhuang »

Just when I got all my door lock issues pretty much figured out, I decided to get a remote lock & unlock unit. I found a product on Amazon made by a company called DoCooler. It was less than $20, but would it be any good?

The reviews were great so I thought I'd give it a go.
Well, after much research on the wiring (I've been warned that the instructions are terrible) I went about installing on my car. I installed it in the trunk area by tapping into the wiring for the power trunk lock. I used the trunk light wire for a continuous 12v tap.
No frills complete kit. The remote has a nice sliding cover to protect the buttons. The one on the left is "closed"
No frills complete kit. The remote has a nice sliding cover to protect the buttons. The one on the left is "closed"
Keyless Remote.png (1.23 MiB) Viewed 10380 times
The good news is that in about 30 minutes, I got it all working. The only issues I ran into were that the lock/unlock wiring was reversed. I just swapped the wires at the harness and all was well. One other annoying issue is that my right side lights will flash when locking or unlocking, but my left side does not. I think I must have tapped into the wrong wire, but I'll have to address that another day. It's raining today and I didn't want to deal with it in the rain.

One thing I will say is that the remote fob is quite nice. It's metal with a sliding cover to prevent accidental pushes.
Last edited by songzunhuang on Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Remote lock & Unlock

Post by slofut »

songzunhuang wrote:Just when I got all my door lock issues pretty much figured out, I decided to get a remote lock & unlock unit. I found a product on Amazon made by a company called DoCooler. It was less than $20, but would it be any good?

The reviews were great so I thought I'd give it a go.
Well, after much research on the wiring (I've been warned that the instructions are terrible) I went about installing on my car. I installed it in the trunk area by tapping into the wiring for the power trunk lock. I used the trunk light wire for a continuous 12v tap.

The good news is that in about 30 minutes, I got it all working. The only issues I ran into were that the lock/unlock wiring was reversed. I just swapped the wires at the harness and all was well. One other annoying issue is that my right side lights will flash when locking or unlocking, but my left side does not. I think I must have tapped into the wrong wire, but I'll have to address that another day. It's raining today and I didn't want to deal with it in the rain.

One thing I will say is that the remote fob is quite nice. It's metal with a sliding cover to prevent accidental pushes.
What kind of range do you get? The one I used on the e24 only had about 15ft range, unlike my gm truck which has about 100ft.
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Re: Remote lock & Unlock

Post by songzunhuang »

What kind of range do you get? The one I used on the e24 only had about 15ft range, unlike my gm truck which has about 100ft.[/quote]

So I finally gave it a shot to figure out the range. I think mine is approximately 40-50 ft. I was able to lock \ unlock the car from my front courtyard while the car was in the driveway. I went into the house and tried to do it through the window, but that wouldn't work.

I don't think it'll go 100ft, but 40-50ft is plenty for how I use it. I also discovered that I can only make one side of marker lights flash when I lock or unlock. When I wired up all the lights, it affected my turn signals. Turning any direction would make all the lights flash like a hazard! Oh well.
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Headlights fail at the worst times... my saga

Post by songzunhuang »

So I am commuting home and I get off the train and get to my car after dark. I turn the key and the headlamp warning is flashing. Walking around to the front, I see that my drive side low beam is out. Crap, I don't want a ticket. My drive is over a mountain road and not having lights in the dark would be challenging. So I called the nearest Auto Parts store and ask them if they have headlights for my car. Can't be that hard to replace right? I asked them if they would mind my changing the light in their parking lot and they said that would be ok.

So on the drive over to the store, it begins to rain. Great. I get to the store and attempt to change the light. This is when I discover that I need to remove the grille. Ok, four screws and we are done right? No, there's also two nuts holding the turn signal assembly. I remove the top nut and then the bottom nut strips. Crap. it won't come off but it's loose enough that I think I can get to the headlight retaining rings if I had a long screwdriver. Into the auto parts store I go to purchase a long screwdriver to reach the screws. Remember, it's raining the whole time and I am getting nice and wet. I finally get the headlight ring off and detach the headlight then go into the store to get the replacement.

They don't have them in stock! They only have high beams. Really? They couldn't have told me this before I started this?

I spend 30-40 minutes calling all the auto-parts store within 10 miles and NONE of them have this headlight. It's about 9pm now and the store is closing and I have to figure out what to do. I ended up adjusting the high-beams and pointing them down so that I can use them as regular headlights. I promptly order 2 headlights from Amazon on my iPhone and set it for 2 day delivery. They are going to arrive while I am on vacation.

Fast forward about a week. I finally install the new headlamps. I changed out both of them for good measure and so that they will match. I briefly considered upgrading to H4's or another fancy light with changeable bulbs, but in the end, I don't need the hassle or expense. Also, how does the metal buckets get so darn rusty? I had to sidetrack myself and do the best I could to brush off the rust and use a rust treatment. Also, maybe crazy, but I just had to polish the chrome rings before I put them back. Yeah, no one will really ever see this but I just like knowing that I am cleaning it up whenever I can. But finally, I have new headlights on the car.
Changed out both headlights and also polished up the chrome ring, just because I could.
Changed out both headlights and also polished up the chrome ring, just because I could.
Headlights.png (803.52 KiB) Viewed 10405 times
Oh, I never fixed that lower bolt on the turn signal assembly that stripped. I can't figure out how to get that off as the entire screw appears to turning with the nut now. I seems I have to just break it off and get a new assembly. I just tightened the upper nut and left it alone for now. The light still works and I will save this battle for another day.

Ah, the joys of old cars.
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Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383
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dwcains
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Location: Lutz, FL

Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by dwcains »

I didn't think you could pull a headlight out with the grille still in place.

I've got that same keyless entry unit, and seeing your post makes me want to install it tomorrow. Good idea mounting it in the trunk.
Dean
Lutz, FL

'85 635 CSi Euro #9402254
'87 Spider Veloce
'92 Spider Veloce
'08 350Z

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songzunhuang
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang »

dwcains wrote:I didn't think you could pull a headlight out with the grille still in place.

I've got that same keyless entry unit, and seeing your post makes me want to install it tomorrow. Good idea mounting it in the trunk.
Well the grille was technically "in place", but I had removed the 4 screws for the grille and then the top nut holding the turn signal in place an also loosened the bottom nut (but it stripped and got stuck). This gives you enough wiggle room to move the grille to a position where you can get a clear shot at the headlight retaining ring screws if you use a long screwdriver.

As for the remote lock, there are 3 tips.
1) Tying 3 wires from the harness to the brown wire. It turns out that the unit needs a ground for the main unit and the lock/unlock.
2) The lock unlock was reversed in the instructions I found. It was each to swap the wires in the harness itself so I didn't have to do further rewiring.
3) The "flash" lights confirmation can only happen on one side of the car. I stupidly split the wire to do both sides (all my turn signal lights would flash in confirmation) but then when my normal turn signal operated, it worked like hazards - all lights would flash.

Not sure how to make all the lights flash with only one wire from the harness.
Also, I used these blue inline connectors. They were cheap and worked well.
Here's a shot of the harness connecting to the wiring in the trunk acutator using the blue in-line connectors.
Here's a shot of the harness connecting to the wiring in the trunk acutator using the blue in-line connectors.
wiring.png (660.29 KiB) Viewed 10398 times
Last edited by songzunhuang on Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383
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