M635CSi #367

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olympia57
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by olympia57 »

:-N
1981 635 series 1
wattsmonkey
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

Cheers Don,

Ironically enough, there was ample opportunity to take pictures today as I left the M abandoned at the side of the road. Needless to say, I was showing off by giving Mrs W a lift to work at the time!

First petrol station - coned off for refilling; second one closed until 7:00 a.m; returned to first one, still coned off and then decided I'd make it to work no problem.

I didn't. Then it started raining.

Still, it makes a great noise when it's got petrol in the tank!
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by Soperman »

Congratulations on getting it back on the road, Rob. Fuel issues aside, I sincerely hope that the first drive met your expectations, and all that effort was worthwhile.
Don't forget, any sound recording would be enormously appreciated.
E24 M635CSi
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

Well, we're definitely in 19th Nervous Shakedown territory: throttle sticking open in alarming manner - throttle body mechanism itself is the problem, not the pedal/cable, despite careful cleaning and lubricating. When cold, the main return spring operates as it should, the retainer springs are in place (i.e. they haven't worn through, but I haven't removed them). Side-to-side play in the main shaft is within tolerance and moves freely within the needle bearings; the rose joints on the three main rods are free. With the plenum removed, all of the butterflies open at the same time.

Luckily, this did not manifest itself too badly driving through traffic to get the tracking set yesterday (my efforts with string and tape measures lacked a certain quality: accuracy!), with the throttle working normally apart from failing to return all the way home, so sitting at 1,500rpm. Lifting the bonnet and pushing the main shaft back into place meant a definite point of resistance.

The worry this morning is effectively nailing the throttle whilst the engine is still fairly cold...

Looks like I'll be rebuilding the throttle bodies sooner than expected! I was hoping to enjoy getting to know the car a bit first. I did wake up most of Cheltenham with a glorious banshee howl this morning though.

Nervously,

Rob
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

Had a brilliant time yesterday: Kevin came over in the most amazing E34 I've ever set eyes on with a bootfull of goodies from Ron, so I now have a powdercoated and pristine cam cover, plenum and airbox to make the M look all pretty once teething troubles fixed. More immediately, I now have a first aid kit in the cubbyhole in the boot and very pleasing plastic trim over the boot lip as per the highlines.

I also had the benefit of Kevin's brainpower in suggesting that I use an additional return spring to pull the throttle closed again whilst I diagnose what, exactly, is sticking. Pushrods are favourite suspects.

Having chatted to Kevin about electrical gremlins, I had a quick look at my dash (since MoT there's a battery drain of a fairly obvious nature: with key out, both obc and illuminated window switches are lighted up; windows working even with doors closed and key out; indicators staying on even when key removed). The indicators were the clue: the hazard light switch (obviously tested for the MoT) is broken in a peculiar way, meaning that it was making a permanent live to the many and varied items on the same circuit! A quick trip to the shed and a replacement hazard light switch did the job, as well as making me wonder whether the gutted remains of the old one might be useful for mounting an led volt gauge...

Also (nearly) managed to swap the engine in my E34 518i for an E36 one, but different sumps and absence of gasket interfered! Obvious once the E34 lump was out!
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
ron
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by ron »

How it all started!!

Image
They are ALWAYS rustier than you thought!!!!!!
'85 M #228
'87 M #367
'88 High line.
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

DRIVING

Have now had a tankful of shakedown experience!

The noise with the Fritz system and manifold is addictive, which might explain how quickly 70 litres got consumed. The feeling of speed is significantly stronger than the M30 - I like to think I'm a safe driver, but am probably just overcautious, yet I find myself blatting past slower traffic in complete confidence that I'll be past the slow stuff very quickly and safely.

I have also found myself going much faster than I thought I was travelling. The car corners flat, without any drama at all. Much smoother and more communicative than I'd hoped for. I think (with emphasis on the subjective verb here) the new Bilsteins on the front must contribute to this: the ride is firmer than the 635 (which had M6 set up on the front, but the uprated arbs must have the biggest part to play in the way it doesn't roll much at all. I've got 22mm on the front and 16 on the back, as opposed to the standard UK set up of 19/15.5 (the same as the 635). I bought a set of M5 25/18 bars, with the mounting brackets, but I am so happy with what I've got I'm not going to bother.

Of course, a shakedown reveals stuff still to do, namely:

Fritz manifold kicks out A LOT of underbonnet heat. I've got things under control with a new viscous fan and a Heath Robinson heatshield, but I must get the auxiliary fan working (I've removed the aircon in its entirety, and stupidly sold the M6 fan with the other aircon bits, the one I've put on the car has different connectors). The plan is to make the low speed fan operate on the thermo switch on the rad, with the high speed being manually operated. If I'm stuck in traffic the water temp is fine, but the throttles get sticky. This clears as soon as I hit the open road again. Not a difficult job, but one I should have done before refitting the bonnet and lights! I was very interested to see the 3.0 E36 M3 has ceramic spacers between the tb and the head, presumably for heat soak reasons?

I know I've still got some fine tuning to do with the throttle synch/mixture adjustment on the afm, idles fine, but very impatient below 2,000rpm. I've got the pipes and the connectors to make a manometer, but still lack the brainpower to complete the job.

My paint repairs are crap. Stuff done with the hvlp gun still looks great, but the rattle can stuff has reacted on the boot and screen bottom.

The highline dash and doorcaps squeak.

I'm still waiting for the rear seats from Boyd to finish the rear - come on Boyd! I need them!

The rear tyres are ancient 245/45 r16 Pirelli P700s, original spec for the Hartges, but would like 225/50/16s all round.

Need to fit Lokaris

Need to work out what to do about lsd wearing out, if that's what's happened (other thread refers).

Anyway, hope of some interest and apologies for rambling!

Rob
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by baders »

Ramble away ! I love reading this stuff though more pictures would help ! Reminds me, must update my conversion thread.
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by Stoffie »

Great reading about your experiences!

Makes me ponder about the first time I really extended mine, coming off an exit onto a stretch of empty freeway. In third, flooring it and just marvelling at the glorious M88/3 wail and the unrelenting surge of power onto the redline. My mate sitting next to me and being used to diesel crap pretty much jizzed himself, figuratively speaking :D

Have to say I've seen plenty of traffic jams in mine but never experienced the sticky throttle problem you describe. You can definitely feel the fan clutch dragging the engine but other than that ?

What do you mean by the car being very impatient below 2K rpm ? Hunting ? Mine has a tendency to do that, even after syncing the ITB's and doing all the work, going through the injection system etc.

Friend of mine has an interesting tool though, he made a pipe to insert into the exhaust, fitted with a wideband lambda sensor. That way you can measure the lambda under load on the road. Findings on an M30 and an M90 were that both were too lean under load all the while being perfectly 'tuned' in stationary condition according to specs. AFM's were adapted to compensate (you can do stuff with the spring inside) and now both engines have much better pickup and driveability while also being in the safe zone, running even a tad rich. Must have something to do with fuels being rather different than when these engines were designed.

I plan on doing that test on mine as soon as it's back together.
The M88/3 was all about power, no cats. At idle the raw fuel from the exhaust will make your eyes water like an old V-8 powered muscle car's exhaust did.
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

Stoffie wrote: Have to say I've seen plenty of traffic jams in mine but never experienced the sticky throttle problem you describe. You can definitely feel the fan clutch dragging the engine but other than that ?

What do you mean by the car being very impatient below 2K rpm ? Hunting ? Mine has a tendency to do that, even after syncing the ITB's and doing all the work, going through the injection system etc.
Hey Stoffie,

Mine was fine before putting the Fritz manifold on, so I assume it's the extra heat that is making the throttles stick. It's definitely fine before getting stuck, in any case!

The impatience bit is more a comparison with the M30 I suppose: whereas the 12v engine pulls like a train from very low revs, my M88 does not get into its stride until a few beans are given! It does hunt a bit, yes, it's interesting that even the synching might not cure this entirely.

Cheers,

Rob
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Stoffie
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by Stoffie »

wattsmonkey wrote:
Stoffie wrote: Have to say I've seen plenty of traffic jams in mine but never experienced the sticky throttle problem you describe. You can definitely feel the fan clutch dragging the engine but other than that ?

What do you mean by the car being very impatient below 2K rpm ? Hunting ? Mine has a tendency to do that, even after syncing the ITB's and doing all the work, going through the injection system etc.
Hey Stoffie,

Mine was fine before putting the Fritz manifold on, so I assume it's the extra heat that is making the throttles stick. It's definitely fine before getting stuck, in any case!

The impatience bit is more a comparison with the M30 I suppose: whereas the 12v engine pulls like a train from very low revs, my M88 does not get into its stride until a few beans are given! It does hunt a bit, yes, it's interesting that even the synching might not cure this entirely.

Cheers,

Rob
I'm actually anxious to try the wideband lambda on mine and see if tweaking the AFM could solve some of this hunting. ITB's have been synced, valve clearances set correctly, new plugs, new leads, new coil, new reference sensors, new injectors, new AFM, new CTS, new TPS, new pressure regulator, all new air hoses and compensators everywhere,... The only thing mine has is helicoil like reparations on the plug threads on three cylinders, been nagging my mind whether that could actually make a difference. So your mileage may vary...

Indeed the M88/3 takes a while to get into its stride, around 4.5K really starts making a difference, in comparison below that rpm range it feels a bit tame if never lacking in absolute torque! I wonder if tweaking the AFM would also make a difference in how the engine reacts and feels in that rpm range.
The M88/3 was all about power, no cats. At idle the raw fuel from the exhaust will make your eyes water like an old V-8 powered muscle car's exhaust did.
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by sharkfan »

In my experience some breathing efficiencys can help the lower rev range response of the M88/3 in an E24; simply looking at the diameter of the entry hole to the standard air filter box gives cause for concern. Opening that out to a larger entrance area yields huge breathing gains across the rev range, even across the standard filter.
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

Thanks Kevin,

The mods to the "battery box" under the intake are definitely on my to-do list.

Had a proper drive to see Ron Saturday, along with Brucey. Much fun had, thanks both, and thanks to Brucey for help getting the boot springs back into place - definitely a two-man job. Thanks too for wiring in the manual auxiliary fan.

Car performed in a very pleasing way, averaging out at 30mpg too, which was a pleasant surprise. Fritz manifold and system makes a glorious noise - always worth seeking out a tunnel or two!

Now also on to-do list

Electrical gremlins evident in temp gauge shooting up when headlights are switched on.
Electrical gremlins in windows not going up unless a quick downward press of switch applied first.
Electrical gremlins in obc function limited to clock only!
Change thermostat as a maintenance item?
Paint wheels again - Halfords wheel silver is unequivocally grey!
Get spare bonnet painted, mine is dented after falling over during storage.
Set spare passenger door painted: bubbles and scratches on this one have grown over course of refurb.
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"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

Have gone a bit keen on getting the original reg: D27 DJU back on the car.

Enquiry logged with DVLA, unless it isn't really the DVLA and I've just typed details into one of the online scams which seem to make up an increasing portion of the internet!

If anyone's got experience of getting an original plate back on a car I'd be interested to hear.

Cheers,

Rob
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by rattusM6 »

Slowly but Surley - keep up the good work Rob. Hope to see you in the near future.

Kev
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

DVLA really helpful, polite and quick in response, but no chance of getting original reg back.
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

Fitted powder coated cam cover today, thank you Ron!

Removed breather cover to make sure no blasting media was stuck in there - clean as a whistle. Re-secured with high strength threadlock.

Need to get some M6 studs to attach the pillar nuts to the plug lead clamps.

Also changed thermostat. Some puzzling over round versus square section o ring, but all sorted now.
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

Oh, the before shot!
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

MoT passed, no advisories. Still haven't done 2k miles since buying it in 2012! It's quite a steep £ per mile figure at present!

Oil changed: Mobil 1 10w60. meets API sl, so hoping all good in the ZDDP hood.

Hartges refurbed; new boots next week. Am thinking Pirelli P7 at the moment due to lack of choice in 225/50r16 size, otherwise Porsche fitment conti sport contact.
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'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

New Wheels

Oh dear, just got new boots fitted to the Hartges when these came up for sale not very locally. Eight hours' driving and a few minutes of fitting later:
E31 Split Rims small.jpg
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Lots of earlier posts in the wheels and tyres section show my searching for a decent set of 16"s - this is me giving up on that having seen the split rim light!

You'll notice that they are E31 fitment, no doubt. Will need a refurb at some point, but very happy to make the most of the abundant Goodyear Eagle F1 rubber that's on there for now.
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'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

...just finished giving the Hartges a refresh too: Upol wheel silver much nicer than Halfords!

Fitted Yokohama Advan Sport 225/50r16 in the end: have got two sets of Hartges so refurbed the spare front set to give me 7 1/2" ET13 all round.

Not sure what to do now: one of the rears has got a ding to the rim, so might get that repaired and then sell one of the sets. I have got the centre caps but I really don't like them.

One thing's for sure - the car is nicer to drive on the smaller rims and tyres...
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"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

Sacrilege!

My bonnet is dented and has no insulating foam on the underside. I have a couple (actually four) good spares which I will get painted at some point, but my plan for the summer is to fit one of these...
bonnet louvres.jpg
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The Fritz manifold kicks out a load of heat and I am loathe to risk a shedload of money on having it ceramic coated, so here's plan D or E on the manifold saga! I have some very Heath RObinson heatshielding around the actual manifold at the moment, so that will be replaced with something prettier, but there is still the problem of the heat having nowhere to go.

So, an ersatz RS Ford bonnet louvre coming soon!
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by baders »

No, no, no, no [-X :D
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by jps635 »

The HPC coating, although pricey does do the the job. See my engine rebuild - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29340&p=210630&hilit=m30b34#p210630. I'd so most race cars I see have their headers coated.

Also, re your fan situation, I'm successfully running a single Davies Craig pusher fan (others prefer Spal), with the viscous fan deleted (also ditched the A/C). This is run off an aftermarket ECU, but with ability to manually override, if desired. We've had a very hot summer, and have been sitting in 30 deg traffic with the fan cycling just fine. However, Davies Craig do a thermatic switch that enables the cycling to be fine tuned. I was running this before connecting to the ECU.
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Re: M635CSi #367

Post by TBM »

Have a slightly off topic question:

Will the brake expansion tank seen in the pics above on wattsmonkey's right hand drive master fit on my left hand drive brake master? I'm trying to make more room for a bigger plenum and every inch makes a difference?

What would be the part number?

thanks in advance guys!
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