M635CSi #367

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wattsmonkey
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M635CSi #367

Post by wattsmonkey »

I've been restoring this car since the engine fell out, due to a rotted chassis rail, back in October 2012.

The bodywork has been sorted.

New timing chain and valves shimmed.

Suspension and steering back on.

Yesterday was a bit of a landmark:[edit: can't work out how to put photos in line. Tired!]

Engine bay just awaiting torqueing of hub.

Feeling good, so thought I'd put the bootlid back on. Now, I'd been really, really clever with this and had removed the hinges, bent the torsion bar brackets back into shape and painted them so they were all shiny and lovely. This was a mistake, because I obviously bent them into a shape they did not originally take, making this job take all day.

I did learn a few things though: 1. when refitting a bootlid and the brackets from scratch, you should adjust both to maximum height and adjust from there, to avoid a literal scratch to the paintwork. 2. People think that the "30% stiffer spring rates" for the M refers to the road springs. It doesn't: it actually refers to the bootlid torsion springs. I ended up robbing the parts stash for the weaker non-spoiler springs to avoid even more damage to the previously shiny and lovely hinges, now resembling Wolverine's stress relief ball. 3. Re-attaching the bootlid is a job best left until you have some assistance!
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"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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rattusM6
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Post by rattusM6 »

Glad to see you are cracking on with the car.
What is your eta for getting back on the road?

Kev
Realised I was dyslexic whilst at a toga party dressed as a goat.
85 E24 M6 - 14 years
92 E30 M3 - 11 years now sold
06 E46 M3 - 2 years
13 Ford Grand C-Max, the family wagon
99 E36 323i Sport Touring - now sold
02 E46 Alpina B3 3.3 - 1.5 years
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Post by wattsmonkey »

Hi Kev,

Looking at end of October to be complete, but not pretty!

Hope your refurb is going okay: you're welcome to use my M88 valve depressor if you need it (I seem to remember you've got an S14 one?)

Cheers,

Rob
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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rattusM6
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Post by rattusM6 »

Hi Rob,

Thanks for that.

Stops and Starts at the moment due to family and work commitments.

Funny enough, I went past your house late last night after an evening in Cheltenham with work colleagues, at the Grid Iron Bar and Grill.

Cheltenham is such a lovely town and you are spoilt for choice regarding restaurants, bars and pubs.

Kev
Realised I was dyslexic whilst at a toga party dressed as a goat.
85 E24 M6 - 14 years
92 E30 M3 - 11 years now sold
06 E46 M3 - 2 years
13 Ford Grand C-Max, the family wagon
99 E36 323i Sport Touring - now sold
02 E46 Alpina B3 3.3 - 1.5 years
wattsmonkey
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It lives!

Post by wattsmonkey »

So, Saturday 24th with Brucey, Steve and Paul in attendance, I turned the key with fuel and main relay, plus spark plugs removed. Cam cover off, much oil covering cams and journals.

Dead battery meant that Paul's 525e, in for welding and fettling, had to do booster duties!

Heart in mouth as turned over for first time and...oil light went out, plus oil appearing as it should under the cams.

Plugs in, cam cover back on, relays back in...fired first time! Then died, so just running on cold start injector.

Left overnight, fired up first time and ran, albeit lumpily so assume dry injectors freed off.

Fitted refurbished afm, PURRING LIKE A KITTEN! Only ran for a brief time as cooling system not connected.

Much happiness, leading to much whisky consumption in the Watts house.

Fritz manifold and system makes a good noise.

All looking most encouraging.

Weird thing: top rail is canted over at an angle: the pillars themselves are not even, making the top rail slope downward towards the inlet side of the engine. Witness marks on the original rail show markedly more wear on this side.

Anyway, still absolutely buzzing from this: thanks you chaps for so much help.
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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whiskeydry
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Post by whiskeydry »

Congrats Rob and well done. I can imagine how you felt when first attempting start up. Heart in mouth doesn't begin to describe. Anyway very glad to hear that all looks well and hope #367 is up and about next year.
All the best
Phil
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1985 RHD M635csi #128
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sharkfan
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Post by sharkfan »

Great result, well done. Resurrecting a car is always a great job.
2001 Alpina B10 V8 Touring (1 of 12 rhd)
1997 Alpina B12 5.7 L (1 of 2 rhd)
1995 Alpina B10 4.6 Touring (1 of 1 rhd)
1985 BMW M635CSi (1 of 524 rhd)
1982 BMW 635CSiA (1 of 100's left from the 1000's made and still valiantly fighting against a rusty grave)
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Post by ron »

sharkfan wrote:Resurrecting a car is always a great job.
Especially an exceedingly rusty one of mine!! Was it 5 years ago when you drove it away?

Looking forward to seeing it Rob.

Great job.
They are ALWAYS rustier than you thought!!!!!!
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olympia57
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Post by olympia57 »

Good going Rob , I'm delighted for you.
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Da_Hose
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Post by Da_Hose »

Woohooo!!! =D>

Another M rejoins the fold.

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Brucey
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Post by Brucey »

re the top guide rail; it mounts on top of two elongated hex nuts, (which work as pedestal nuts) but in Rob's engine the height of the nut tops was not equal.

Measurements indicated that there was a height difference of 0.38mm. This was enough to cause a new guide rail to bear down quite firmly on the chain over the intake sprocket, and to be well clear of it over the exhaust sprocket.

An examination of the old top guide showed that it was unevenly worn because it too had been sat at an angle. For test purposes the old guide was installed.

Now the hex nuts are indicated as #19 here;

http://2009.bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/ ... e_housing/

and this part (11 12 1 312 308, replacing 11 12 1 304 802) is also shown as fitting pretty much every other DOHC engine of similar ilk;

http://2009.bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/11121312308/

and in those applications it appears to be the only version used eg.

http://2009.bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/ ... e_housing/

http://2009.bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/ ... e_housing/

http://2009.bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/ ... e_housing/

However in Rob's engine the nuts were sat on heavy section washers that do not seem to be indicated in the ETK parts diagrams. The measurements we took indicated very clearly that the nuts themselves were different heights, which of course they shouldn't be.

So does anyone know if;

a) there is a different part that could be fitted in error and/or if

b) the heavy section washers (about 1.6mm thickness) beneath these nuts are 'standard'?

I wonder if the nuts were each machined to length (perhaps because the pedestals were too high otherwise, if the washers were not as intended), and that if so the machining was not carried out very accurately?

BTW if anyone else wants their M635 AFM overhauled back to working order, please let me know.

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Post by wattsmonkey »

Now's the time to say my AFM, the one that made the M purr like a kitten, was refurbed by Brucey.

I'm hoping that later models will come with a Brucey sticker - it's the mark of quality that anyone with a shark-shaped nose knows they can trust.

As a slogan, that needs work.

Thanks again Brucey. You are legend.

I'm off to look at my engine again, whilst doing impressions of the Emperor from Return of the Jedi: "Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield [read M635] will be quite operational when your friends arrive."
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Post by wattsmonkey »

Re the pedestal nuts, I'm going to order a couple of the right part number to compare and contrast.

Many thanks for any help anyone can offer on this.
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Post by rattusM6 »

Hi Rob,

Great to hear all is progressing well and the beast is now firing up.

Regarding the Hex Nut(s) in question, if it helps I can check on my car over the weekend and send some pics and measurements, unless you have already ordered the replacements, just let me know.

Kev
Realised I was dyslexic whilst at a toga party dressed as a goat.
85 E24 M6 - 14 years
92 E30 M3 - 11 years now sold
06 E46 M3 - 2 years
13 Ford Grand C-Max, the family wagon
99 E36 323i Sport Touring - now sold
02 E46 Alpina B3 3.3 - 1.5 years
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Post by wattsmonkey »

Thank you Kev,

Nuts already ordered, but a sanity check of your top rail/mounting pedestal would be great.

Rob
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Post by Brucey »

I found this picture;

Image

from http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e28-m5 ... -a-16.html

which shows that the thick washers appear to be standard.

cheers
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Post by Da_Hose »

Remember that if you have an M635, that has an M88 engine. The picture Brucey found is of an S38. The engines are REALLY similar, but the cam chain and accompanying tensioner parts are different between the two engines.

I recall that in another thread someone posted about a difference in height of their nut extensions for the top guide/slider to mount on. Perhaps that is due to the difference between an S38 and M88 specific nut/riser.

What I'm saying is that you should always look for M88 specific examples when it comes to engine stuff.

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Post by Brucey »

Da_Hose wrote:Remember that if you have an M635, that has an M88 engine. The picture Brucey found is of an S38. The engines are REALLY similar, but the cam chain and accompanying tensioner parts are different between the two engines.

I recall that in another thread someone posted about a difference in height of their nut extensions for the top guide/slider to mount on. Perhaps that is due to the difference between an S38 and M88 specific nut/riser.

What I'm saying is that you should always look for M88 specific examples when it comes to engine stuff.

Jose
The picture above is an M88 motor. Look carefully and you can see the single row chain. The pedestal nuts are meant to be the same part in any case (as per the links I posted previously).

Given that the top guide for an M88 has been NLA worldwide for some time, many people have resorted to using the S38 top guide. This has the same mountings, same installed working height (i.e. vs the top of the chain) and will fit inside an M88 rocker box provided a relief is cut into the front of it.

[Rob's new guide is the S38 part and the old guide was the M88 part BTW. The old part was already 'worn to fit' but would have fouled the chain identically when it was originally first used.]

cheers
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Post by Da_Hose »

Well, shoot! I assumed that being an M5 forum thread about an E28 meant S38. I just went back through the thread and see that the OP does indeed state that it is an E28 with an M88. There is a good picture later that also gives full view of the single row chain.

That's what happens when you assume, people.

Ya know Brucey, there is a motorcycle forum I used to frequent where a guy started making new, all delrin chain guides for DOHC Honda engines. OEM pieces were getting hard to find and his was a better designed piece. I wonder if there is value in making an all delrin top guide for an M88? It would be interesting to see what a delrin piece would cost, as compared to the $250 price tag of the S38 part.

Jose
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Post by wattsmonkey »

Thank you Brucey,

That is reassuring. Did you notice that the picture you found appears to have pedestal nuts made of solid gold?

I had a proper idiot check moment today, having exerted a little too much energy catching up with DIY duties. new battery installed, but starting the car showed the battery light on, plus there was no power steering, no servo assistance on the brakes and the brake pressure warning light on.

You've probably worked out that the absence of the alternator and power steering pump belts might have an impact on the above!

The flip side of this is that the car moved under its own steam using gears, brakes and everything!

I've learned that it is very, very difficult to accurately place an E24 in the garage with no seat, bonnet or front wings. The other thing I've learned is that the Fritz manifold and system makes the best noise I've ever heard: better than the M30 version, I'd say.
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'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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Post by Brucey »

wattsmonkey wrote: ... Did you notice that the picture you found appears to have pedestal nuts made of solid gold?...
does that explain the price of them...? :wink:

cheers
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Post by rattusM6 »

Hi Rob,

Thats fine, I will check on mine and hopefully will concur with Brucey, as I am pulling the engine this weekend anyway.

Kev
Realised I was dyslexic whilst at a toga party dressed as a goat.
85 E24 M6 - 14 years
92 E30 M3 - 11 years now sold
06 E46 M3 - 2 years
13 Ford Grand C-Max, the family wagon
99 E36 323i Sport Touring - now sold
02 E46 Alpina B3 3.3 - 1.5 years
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Post by TBM »

Da_Hose wrote:Well, shoot! I assumed that being an M5 forum thread about an E28 meant S38. I just went back through the thread and see that the OP does indeed state that it is an E28 with an M88. There is a good picture later that also gives full view of the single row chain.

That's what happens when you assume, people.

Ya know Brucey, there is a motorcycle forum I used to frequent where a guy started making new, all delrin chain guides for DOHC Honda engines. OEM pieces were getting hard to find and his was a better designed piece. I wonder if there is value in making an all delrin top guide for an M88? It would be interesting to see what a delrin piece would cost, as compared to the $250 price tag of the S38 part.

Jose
I was wondering that same question as I looked at the price of the guides as well. I did find what OEM's (BMW as well) use:

http://www.dsm.com/products/stanyl/en_US/home.html

So essentially you can buy either rod or sheet product and have it machined...If anyone can create a CAD drawing for the parts we can have them made....Hell..I'll find a shop here (i work with a few)
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Post by wattsmonkey »

rattusM6 wrote:Hi Rob,

Thats fine, I will check on mine and hopefully will concur with Brucey, as I am pulling the engine this weekend anyway.

Kev
Thanks Kev, that's brilliant. If you get the chance to measure the height of both the nuts and the nut/washer combo too, that would be even better.

Rob
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'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
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rattusM6
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Post by rattusM6 »

OK,

First pics confirm thick washers with spacers on my engine.

Outlet side:
Washer thickness = 1.52 mm
Spacer thickness = 26.95 mm

Inlet side:
Washer thickness = 1.47 mm
Spacer thickness = 26.92 mm

So assume washers are 1.5mm and spacers are 27mm

Kev
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Realised I was dyslexic whilst at a toga party dressed as a goat.
85 E24 M6 - 14 years
92 E30 M3 - 11 years now sold
06 E46 M3 - 2 years
13 Ford Grand C-Max, the family wagon
99 E36 323i Sport Touring - now sold
02 E46 Alpina B3 3.3 - 1.5 years
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