1987 635csi 5-speed / long time lurker introduction

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castironphil
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1987 635csi 5-speed / long time lurker introduction

Post by castironphil »

Hello!
I'm new to this forum, so I'll explain how I ended up here...

I've been a split window VW transporter enthusiast for about 20 years. I've owned a few, I love driving them - but lately the hobby has skyrocketed in popularity. It has driven the prices for parts and everything out of my range. I expect some people to tell me how expensive it is to own an e24, but believe me - until you start seeing seats for $4,000...count your blessings!
Spend some time http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... highlight= here to see what I mean. Rust is also something I'm sick of dealing with.

Not to ramble, but I sold my 1965 transporter in favor of an e24. I've been doing my homework for about 6 months, lurking here, etc. and I found what I believed to be a good deal. I'm in Fargo (shopping in Minneapolis/Winnipeg primarily), and I decided to push my search radius out of the rust belt for my best odds.

I found this car in the south suburbs of Denver and pulled the trigger. It has 2 rust spots in the rear wheel wells, mechanically very sound, evidence that it was well taken care of (via the many pictures and emails from a patient PO), and so I'm happy. I bought a 1 way ticket to Denver, armed with a standard tool kit, Bentley manual, and loaded up on insurance with roadside assistance, and I took a leap of faith.

When I got to the car, it was just as promised. Strong bones, drivable, but needed some TLC. I was surprised to find the original (!) tires on the original bottlecaps. They were metric and I was not prepared for that. I'm assuming the OG owner took the wheels/tires off shortly after purchase, but they followed the car throughout its life. When it came to me, they just put them back on. Here's the nightmare for those that haven't dealt with r/390 tires: there is nothing you can put on these rims (unless you are a crazy 'all original or nothing' type of restorationist). It took an entire day of measuring offsets and calling Craigslist people. In short, I ended up driving the car to a far suburb to pick up a set of style 29s with snow tires (that will happen to fit my Subaru when I return - sweet!). I don't plan on driving this car in the winter at all.

Talk about white knuckle driving. People passing me going 80mph while I'm slowly creeping along - praying that the dry rotted tires don't give.

So, in short, I was able to get the wheels/snow tires mounted and I left for Fargo: almost a 1,000 mile journey.

I stopped very frequently in the beginning to check for leaks, smelling the vents for weird smells or burning, etc. I just drove like an old lady until I could get home. I only had to tighten hose clamps on the new coolant lines due to some leaks I spotted, but that was it. It was a miracle, but I pulled it off and now it's the least rusty e24 in the North Dakota/Minnesota area.

Condition summary:
The shifting linkage is nice and tight, no exhaust leaks, the interior is quite clean. Bad passenger window switch, I'm locked out of the radio (but the speakers and antenna work fine) for now. The engine pulls nicely with smooth acceleration. No valve noise, just the tight click of the fuel injectors. It came with handwritten notes of repairs from PO going back many years. New coil, plugs, wires, some sensors look quite new. Some small oil leaking from that front bolt that is so troublesome, but I'll get to that. No rust in trunk or under carpets. Seat motors all work. Heater/AC fan not working, but AC compressor engages when turned on. Heat come from vents when turned up. I went to a car wash and no leaks under the hood, trunk, windows, sunroof, or doors. It has some bumper rash over the passenger rear fender that damaged the trim piece, but it's minor and repairable. Paint is oxidized, but I will polish it with a compound and orbital polisher eventually. It's not terrible. Front valence has been cracked and repaired. I'd like to paint it Bronze Beige Metallic to match the upper paint eventually. Trunk and hood badges are completely peeled/faded. Usual cracking on foglight lenses. Elephant ear turn signal on passenger side has a loose housing. All lights work Odometer died at 202k.

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I'll use this thread to track my progress and post more pictures (if a sunny day ever comes along here, geez).

I'd like to say thanks to tschultz for his advice and being my backup plan for wheels if I wouldn't have made it out of Denver!!!

Thank you all for info that you've shared as I've been lurking here for many months! You are a wealth of knowledge, and it greatly influenced my decision to leave the air cooled VW world for this new hobby.
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castironphil
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Post by castironphil »

Alright! My first major problem: the coolant pump is leaking now. Can anyone tell me if this water pump could have weep holes? It looks like I'll be taking out the pump and replacing the seal soon.
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Brucey
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Post by Brucey »

a 1000-mile baptism ....? :shock: :shock:

crikey! That is certainly in at the deep end!

Still, it looks like you have done well there! Congratulations on your purchase!

Re the coolant pump; most folk just replace them when they fail. They are not expensive, I bought a pattern pump (Circoli) for 17 quid here in the UK a couple of years ago, and the quality seems fine; pressed steel impeller isn't pretty to look at but works fine.

However do be sure that you need to replace the pump before you bother to do it; there could be another fault that is causing that symptom.

When the cooling system is in good shape it ought to hold a vacuum pressure of ~2 psi when the system has cooled down. This occurs because the airspace above the coolant becomes ~100% steam in the course of a long run and once this cools it contracts and sucks air in through the small valve in the centre of the pressure cap. The spring preload on the valve (or the one on the pump seal) sets the pressure in the system. If the valve jams or works at slightly too high a pressure differential, occasionally you will see the top hose looking a weird shape, part flattened on a cold engine; as long as it is not completely flat, this is nothing to worry about and in fact is a sign of a relatively healthy (otherwise leak free) cooling system.

You can tell if you have the partial vacuum, because you will hear an inrush of air into the expansion bottle when you remove the cap on a cold engine. Similarly if you slacken a hose clip it will suck air into a cold system.

However any tiny leak will prevent this partial vacuum from being held; air will be sucked into the system as it cools and the pressure is then aiming to be equal to ambient at all times. If this happens the first sign is often a slight coolant weep at the pump when you check the car. Overnight the system will cool right down and in the daytime the pressure in the system will become weakly positive and this may push fluid out wherever it can do.

The seal in the water pump is usually a carbon ring seal; this has a weak spring behind it and it also sees the system pressure; the higher the pressure the greater the effectiveness of the seal because of the additional pressure load on it.

So anyway, if the system holds a partial vacuum OK, you can have a slightly worn pump and it won't weep. But if the system leaks to ambient pressure (from any leak anywhere), a weep from the water pump when the engine is cold isn't that uncommon.

If the pump obviously leaks fluid when the engine is first warmed up and the system is first fully pressurised, then the pump seal has failed. But if it doesn't, and just weeps a little when the engine is cold, it could be a tiny leak on the system somewhere else.

Tracking down tiny leaks is notoriously difficult because they only leak fluid obviously when the system is both pressurised and still cool enough that the coolant won't evaporate on the spot wherever it leaks out. A typical cause is if an aluminium hose spigot starts to corrode; often this generates a weep and spotting it can be really tricky.

If you have a small leak that is causing the pump weep, it is a good idea to fix the fault PDQ because water leaking from the pump will go through one of the bearings on the way out and that will knacker the pump.

hth

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Post by Pod »

Welcome to the forum :D
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castironphil
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Post by castironphil »

Thanks Brucey! I was not excited about this 'baptism' either, but the shipping cost would exceed the price paid for the car. Dice rolled, came up good.

Here's some more detail regarding the leak; I've wiped it down many times to pinpoint the leak. It does not leak at all when running. After turning the engine off, it does not leak immediately. The weather here is somewhat cool, but not freezing, and it took almost half an hour for the leak to appear. It also appears to stop leaking once a couple of Tablespoons have hit the floor.

I gave the top radiator tube a squeeze, and it collapses easily, i.e., it feels like it is under vacuum.
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Ralph in Socal
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Post by Ralph in Socal »

Welcome CIP. I came from the VW world and, like you, left because of the exorbitant pricing on parts. Prices are driven by the "cool" factor and not by technology so I couldn't justify the cost. BMW are a far better value when compared to many other makes.

Get a new water pump as they are only $40 or so. Make sure to get the metal impeller model as some really cheap units have plastic impellers. The fan clutch nut is reverse thread so don't get trapped in that issue. Loosen the nut by stuffing a rag into the fan belt to keep it from turning and use a 1 5/16 open end wrench to loosen the nut. You can remove the fan clutch and fan as a unit without removing anything else but the fan shroud.

Check the condition of the fan clutch as well and replace as necessary. All your belts should be changed at this time as you will have them all off anyway. The A/C belt is a PITA!!

Good luck.


Ralph
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

85 635csi Zinno Auto
84 528i Euro
83 635 Euro Arktik
81 528i Kastanien 5-speed
88 528e Bronzit (Granpa Car)
86 535i Auto (For Sale)
81 633 csi (retired)
MSGGrunt
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Post by MSGGrunt »

Welcome. I too recently got bitten by the 635 (M6 in my case) bug and love the car.

Be sure to post plenty of underhood and interior pictures for us all to enjoy. The forum is a great place for technical advice and can be a great source if you need used parts.
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We got the same wheels

Post by songzunhuang »

Greetings, I got an e24 a few months ago and am going through all the sorting out of bits. One of my first things was swapping the metric wheels. From your pictures, it looks like we went for the same wheels from a 5 series. I don't know what they are called, only that I like them.

My project (84 633CSi) is being documented extensively here. I've done the water pump, radiator, etc. it's not so bad. Although I had to drain, flush, fill the system 5 times. Thats another story...

Best of luck.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383
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Da_Hose
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Post by Da_Hose »

Hey there and welcome!

Another vote here for just replacing the water pump. If you are leaking, it's possible the old pump is just loose, or maybe it's warped somehow or there is a nick in the sealing surfaces. If you have confirmed the bolts are not loose, then you have to pull it anyway. If you are taking off the old pump, a new one is cheap. Put on a new pump, gasket and use some ultra grey sealant on the mating surfaces. That is the best fix.

Jose
1987 M6 - My dream car
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rattusM6
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Post by rattusM6 »

Welcome to the forum.

Nice to know you live in the coolest place on TV :mrgreen:
Realised I was dyslexic whilst at a toga party dressed as a goat.
85 E24 M6 - 14 years
92 E30 M3 - 11 years now sold
06 E46 M3 - 2 years
13 Ford Grand C-Max, the family wagon
99 E36 323i Sport Touring - now sold
02 E46 Alpina B3 3.3 - 1.5 years
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castironphil
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Post by castironphil »

While I'm waiting to get around to my coolant pump (which is not leaking very badly), I've replaced a power window switch, ordered some tiny- 4w marker lights. Also ordered new silicon vacuum tubes to replace some dry rotted, crumbling lines that I had taped up to get me down the road.

My heater/AC fan switch seem to be out. I've read plenty about the notorious transistor that goes out, making the fan only work on high - but mine does not work at all. The fuse is fine.
Bench tested the motor, it works fine:
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When driving with the vents open, a lot of debris kept flying out at high speeds. Weird crap like yarn, insulation, leaves, etc. One reason I wanted to take the fan out anyways was to vacuum out the vents from behind the dash. It appears that some sort of creature had built a nest in there.
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I shop vac'd the nest out, and blew the remaining debris out from on top of the AC condenser with an air compressor. What a mess.


Can anybody tell me what this transistor does? I put a voltage tester on it, and it seems to be working. I just don't know what its role is. Opening the heater flaps, possibly?
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Here are some running engine pictures for no particular reason:
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castironphil
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Post by castironphil »

testing a signature
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sansouci
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Post by sansouci »

With mouse nests, you may also have some chewed wires..you never know

I believe the transistor allows the rheostat control to vary the fan speed.

If you want to clean the squirrel cages, unhook the electrical and get a deep sauce pan. immerse the wheel (on end of course) and clean it in soapy water. Dry it and reverse to do the other wheel. That way you won't have to remove them from the shaft.
Then lightly lube the bearings. I made the mistake of using 30wt oil and got an oil smell in the cabin. Use a vasoline based lube like "SuperLube" which should not smell.
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)
baders
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Post by baders »

Can anybody tell me what this transistor does? I put a voltage tester on it, and it seems to be working. I just don't know what its role is. Opening the heater flaps, possibly?
In basic terms, the transistor acts as an amplifier. Looking at the picture below, current to the blower motor (green arrows) flows from the Collector (C) to the Emmitter (E) on the transistor (blue circled). The transistor controls the amount of this current by varying the much smaller current (red arrows) supplied to the Base (B) of the transistor. This in turn is controlled by the current output by the variable resistor on your dash (circled yellow). Simply put, a very small current is used to control a much larger one (to the motor).
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1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
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Ralph in Socal
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Post by Ralph in Socal »

baders wrote:
Can anybody tell me what this transistor does? I put a voltage tester on it, and it seems to be working. I just don't know what its role is. Opening the heater flaps, possibly?
In basic terms, the transistor acts as an amplifier. Looking at the picture below, current to the blower motor (green arrows) flows from the Collector (C) to the Emmitter (E) on the transistor (blue circled). The transistor controls the amount of this current by varying the much smaller current (red arrows) supplied to the Base (B) of the transistor. This in turn is controlled by the current output by the variable resistor on your dash (circled yellow). Simply put, a very small current is used to control a much larger one (to the motor).
Excellent Paul. That explanation needs to be saved!

To CIP - that is one of the transistors that is known to fail. I had one overheat and melt the plastic housing.


Ralph
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

85 635csi Zinno Auto
84 528i Euro
83 635 Euro Arktik
81 528i Kastanien 5-speed
88 528e Bronzit (Granpa Car)
86 535i Auto (For Sale)
81 633 csi (retired)
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Post by tschultz »

Solid buy! Glad it has worked out well :)

It looks liek you have given it a nice home!
http://www.Drive4Corners.com
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'79 635CSi Revival
'80 635CSi
'83 633CSi Callaway Turbo continued as 1988 535is Turbo
SOLD: '81 635CSi/A
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castironphil
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Post by castironphil »

baders - thanks for the great schematic with notes!

As for the chewed wires, I've visually inspected every inch that I can - the amazing thing about this car; every single electrical component seems to be working perfectly (knocks on wood). I didn't get much info from the PO, but it obviously sat in storage for a long time. You could eat off of the engine, but it had cobwebs and a rat's nest, so let's hope he didn't chew anything I don't know about.

tschultz-I am stoked about the buy. I am so glad I passed on a lot of crap that I came close to buying. I haven't been this excited for a car since my first split window bus - 20 years ago. I would sleep in it if my wife would let me (ssshhh).
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songzunhuang
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Post by songzunhuang »

That transistor is an easy fix. I also had to replace that and also had a rats nest in the blower cage when I got my car. If you look in my project pages, I have pics of the transistor replacement. It's a $3 part at Radio Shack.

It's nice to have a decent blower. If you are not even getting the high setting and your motor works, you may need a new speed control.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383
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castironphil
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Post by castironphil »

songzunhuang wrote:That transistor is an easy fix. I also had to replace that and also had a rats nest in the blower cage when I got my car. If you look in my project pages, I have pics of the transistor replacement. It's a $3 part at Radio Shack.

It's nice to have a decent blower. If you are not even getting the high setting and your motor works, you may need a new speed control.
I enjoyed reading your thread! I'm glad I didn't have any dead critters in mine! What a mess. Thanks for sharing so many pictures. I find it all very helpful. -phil
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castironphil
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Re: 1987 635csi 5-speed / long time lurker introduction

Post by castironphil »

Hey kids,
I replaced my blower fan a couple of months ago. Fixed some electrical issues, and now the blower and variable resistor are all working fine. The problem now; the heat turns cold at highway speed and it's warm again in city driving.
Is this simply a stuck thermostat, or could it be anything else?
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Re: 1987 635csi 5-speed / long time lurker introduction

Post by tschultz »

Definitely sounds like failed diaphragm in heater valve!
http://www.Drive4Corners.com
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'79 635CSi Revival
'80 635CSi
'83 633CSi Callaway Turbo continued as 1988 535is Turbo
SOLD: '81 635CSi/A
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captain awesome
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Re: 1987 635csi 5-speed / long time lurker introduction

Post by captain awesome »

Timing on this post couldn't be more timely as this happened to me this morning. Cold air at high speed on the interstate but as soon as I slow down the heat comes back.

Looks like the Bosch kit is no longer available but only $16 or so at Autohausaz http://www.autohausaz.com/pn/3065

Here's a quick "how to":

viewtopic.php?t=16544
84 633csi 5 spd

6727698
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castironphil
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Re: 1987 635csi 5-speed / long time lurker introduction

Post by castironphil »

Rock on!
Thanks guys!
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castironphil
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Re: 1987 635csi 5-speed / long time lurker introduction

Post by castironphil »

A few updates:
I got aluminium hubcentric rings for these E39 16's I've been rolling on and new tires.
New coolant pump installed.
New vacuum hoses all around.
New battery.
Started removing window tint off the back window, but it's been cool here in Fargo (crazy, I know) and I can't keep it warm long enough to scrape off. Trying again on the next warm day.
New roundel for the front. Looking for a good deal on a trunk roundel and some new kidneys.
A local upholsterer here sewed up my front seat panels that had the seams torn apart. Luckily, all the holes were intact. Great price, service, and less than 24 hours.
Before and after:
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captain awesome
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Re: 1987 635csi 5-speed / long time lurker introduction

Post by captain awesome »

Nice save on the seat!
84 633csi 5 spd

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