Griffo's Project Page

Document your Sixer project here.

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griffo
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Griffo's Project Page

Post by griffo »

hi all I have plans to drop in a manual and s38 into my E12 based 6er. I have heard its impossible to do or get the speedo, odo, tacko etc to work without converting to the e28 diff and suspension so is this true?
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Re: need help with S38 conversion plans

Post by GRNSHRK »

Griffo, this thread will be invaluable to you \:D/

[url][/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=26071url]

But please consider moving this thread to the "Projects" forum, The Workshop is exactly for that purpose, discussing things for your workshop/garage :-k
:mrgreen:
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Re: need help with s38 conversion plans

Post by griffo »

So sorry mate I didn't mean to mess the system up please feel free to delete/move it
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Re: need help with s38 conversion plans

Post by Shipper 01 »

Griffo,

Take a look here. A bit crappy on details but this is because the first mechanic was the worlds worst.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showt ... 3CSi/page2
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Re: need help with s38 conversion plans

Post by griffo »

Thanks for moving the thread sorry about that
I don't want to go lopping away aty e12 based so is it possible to put the s38b38 in without needing to do a e28 diff swap?
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Re: need help with s38 conversion plans

Post by Shipper 01 »

Yes it is. I was given the worlds worst advice by the worlds worst mechanic in Melbourne before finding classic custom cars and Alan. All you need is the speed signal simulator. It's not costly at all. In the end you will probably need this anyway as it is very hard to get the S38B38 to read the speed signal from the e28 diff, going through the older gauge cluster the e12 has (it goes through the gauge cluster on the M5 to clean the signal. Our old gauge clusters and even the e28 gauge cluster just cannot handle the work). My auto-electrician just could not do it. Then I bought an e28 gauge cluster but that presented new problems. $1,200 later, I bought the speed signal simulator, 3 wires (one earth, one ecu and one power) and away you go.

So;

1. Check rear subframe and diff mounting area to confirm all solid. The 400nm of the S38B38 will fatigue fail anything not sound so fix it now.
2. Check chassis beams to ensure no cracks. Weld any cracks. Mine had cracks. The E46 M3 was renowned for cracks in the diff mount to boot floor area.
3. The link to the speed simulator is in the Bimmerforums build in my last post. Page 2 I think. I bought the oldtimer guys version. It will make sense when you see the two.

Hope this helps.
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Re: need help with s38 conversion plans

Post by griffo »

ok SWEET I M OVER THE MOON NOW MY GIRLFRIEND LIKED THE CAR SO I AM SHORE SHE WILL LIKE IT WITH A S38 LOL
is there a strengthening plate available for the e12 setup?
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how to remove fuel pickup and sender NEED HELP ASAP

Post by griffo »

hi guys I am eager to get my 1979 633CSI going but the filter in the tank is blocked with shite!
I have removed the cap inside the boot and removed the hoses but I cant get the pick up canester out to clean the filter!
so how is this removed?
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Re: how to remove fuel pickup and sender NEED HELP ASAP

Post by davem6 »

Take the 5 small nuts off the fuel level sender first and pull the sender straight up and out. Rotate the top plate anticlockwise a little bit (it will be tight to turn) and it should lift out.
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Re: how to remove fuel pickup and sender NEED HELP ASAP

Post by griffo »

This didn't have any nuts?
I removed the top cover in the boot
Removed the two hoses
Twisted the pick up and sender and lifted it but something was blocking it?
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Do the 1979 633csi need upper cylinder lube?

Post by griffo »

Hi guys I am sorry for my lack of knowledge but, does my 1979 633csi UK import need to run upper cylinder lube? Please help as I am going to start her up tomoz and I don't want to hurt the original motor!
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Re: Do the 1979 633csi need upper cylinder lube?

Post by sharkfan »

Whenever I get to one of my cars that hasn't been turned over or run for a while I disable the fuel pump and turn the engine over until the oil pressure light goes out to give me some confidence that there is at least some oil running around the system.

Have a good battery charged up and ready to go and perhaps a jump pack.

When was the engine last run and what does the oil on the dipstick look like?
2001 Alpina B10 V8 Touring (1 of 12 rhd)
1997 Alpina B12 5.7 L (1 of 2 rhd)
1995 Alpina B10 4.6 Touring (1 of 1 rhd)
1985 BMW M635CSi (1 of 524 rhd)
1982 BMW 635CSiA (1 of 100's left from the 1000's made and still valiantly fighting against a rusty grave)
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Re: how to remove fuel pickup and sender NEED HELP ASAP

Post by tschultz »

The screen at the bottom likely. You have to wiggle it out-- it's a tight fit.

As others mentioned, did you pull out the sender first?
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Re: how to remove fuel pickup and sender NEED HELP ASAP

Post by griffo »

its all one piece on mine! I can pull the pick up and sender about 3/4 way up then it stops because theres something underneath it stopping the little bugger!
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Re: need help with s38 conversion plans

Post by Shipper 01 »

griffo wrote:ok
is there a strengthening plate available for the e12 setup?
A strengthening plate? For what part?

I used the bomb proof diff mount offered on bimmerforums but it needed significant modifications. I also had a solid square structural system welded into the transverse chassis beam to stiffen this section up. So if you are talking about the diff to chassis area, yeah you should consider strengthening it. At the very least you need to have the rear subframe removed, checked for cracks and have the rear flood also checked for cracks. Any good car restorer can weld a few stiffener plates is while all this is being done.
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Re: need help with s38 conversion plans

Post by griffo »

ok thanks could you show me how or what those streangthening plates look like?
I would rather copy you or what has already been done instead of re-inventing the wheel!
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Re: Do the 1979 633csi need upper cylinder lube?

Post by dwcains »

Doesn't hurt to squirt a little,oil in each spark,plug hole and let it soak overnight if an engine has been sitting for a long time. You can then crank it with the plugs out until you build up some oil pressure, and then install new plugs and see if it fires.
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Re: Do the 1979 633csi need upper cylinder lube?

Post by griffo »

she hasn't been run for atleast 3 months.
but it has compression and spark so no problems there.
I just need to get fuel to the barstard since the fuel pickup filter is blocked with shite.
I am purley asking if this model/year needs to run upper cylinder lube to run unleaded?
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Re: Do the 1979 633csi need upper cylinder lube?

Post by dwcains »

I think the main issue with unleaded fuel and older cars is wear to the valve seats, if they're not hardened. Not sure about that year BMW, though.
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Re: Do the 1979 633csi need upper cylinder lube?

Post by sharkfan »

It's a very long time ago that it was last discussed on here but I remember checking diligently at the the time and deciding that my 1985 M635CSi did not need an additive but my 1982 635CSi did, so I have been using Castrol Valvemaster Plus ever since.

The nice bonus with the Castrol Valvemaster bottles is that they fit very safely and securely behind the petrol cap to always remind you to use it.
2001 Alpina B10 V8 Touring (1 of 12 rhd)
1997 Alpina B12 5.7 L (1 of 2 rhd)
1995 Alpina B10 4.6 Touring (1 of 1 rhd)
1985 BMW M635CSi (1 of 524 rhd)
1982 BMW 635CSiA (1 of 100's left from the 1000's made and still valiantly fighting against a rusty grave)
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Re: how to remove fuel pickup and sender NEED HELP ASAP

Post by sharkfan »

The pick up is like a little 'foot' on the bottom of the sender; it requires a little bit of wriggling and leaning over of the sender tube to get it out.

Exercise some patience and you'll get it out with ease; don't and you'll find yourself looking for a new sender as well as trying to fish the broken off bits out of the tank.
2001 Alpina B10 V8 Touring (1 of 12 rhd)
1997 Alpina B12 5.7 L (1 of 2 rhd)
1995 Alpina B10 4.6 Touring (1 of 1 rhd)
1985 BMW M635CSi (1 of 524 rhd)
1982 BMW 635CSiA (1 of 100's left from the 1000's made and still valiantly fighting against a rusty grave)
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Re: how to remove fuel pickup and sender NEED HELP ASAP

Post by griffo »

ok thanks,
when I looked on google I couldn't find didly squat so would it be possible for one one you 633csi owners to post a pic or two so I can verify?
thanks again for the support!
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Re: Do the 1979 633csi need upper cylinder lube?

Post by griffo »

ok so my 1984 e30 323i doesn't need it but the 1979 633csi will definalty need it!
when I shoe horn the s38 in the bugger it wont need it if im correct being from a e34?
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Re: Do the 1979 633csi need upper cylinder lube?

Post by BenM635i »

Not sure if its a good thing, I have generally always used Valvemaster+ in the '84 M635csi.. figure better safe than sorry.

It does smoke a little if i lift off at high revs so suspect valve guides a little worn but no big stress (makes me smile, i know its immature but hey!)
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Re: Do the 1979 633csi need upper cylinder lube?

Post by sharkfan »

Back in 2004 when Leaded petrol was phased out it wasn't quite as simple as picking a year - it's the materials the valves and valve seats were made with, and the particular engines concerned.

Here's some reading with the final word discovered by Chris Wright and posted in 2011;

2004 thread; viewtopic.php?f=2&t=384&hilit=valve+seat+leaded

2004 later thread; viewtopic.php?f=2&t=676&hilit=additive+unleaded+leaded

2011 thread with Chris Wright's discovery of the BMW letter from 1998; viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16058&hilit=valve+ ... ded+leaded

The BMW letter from 1998; http://www.exx.se/techinfo/docs/si_13_01_98_298.pdf
VK-20/Kuss Baugruppe/Group: 13
13 01 98 (298)
All countries except USA and Canada
04/1998

Operation with unleaded fuel without "hardened" valve seats

M10, M20, M30, S14 , M88 without catalyst, up to production 08/1984

Situation: As a result of a greater environmental awareness around the globe, more and more oil companies are no longer adding lead or lead tetraethyl to their fuels. These additives are used to reduce the knock properties of the fuel, especially in premium grade petrol. In some European countries, leaded fuel has not been available at all since mid-1997. "Non-catalyst" BMW spark ignition engines manufactured prior to the general introduction of "hardened" valve seat material (since 09/1984) require such lead additives. This will ensure that the valve seat rings are properly sealed and are stable. Effect: In order to meet these new market conditions, the actions detailed below under "Procedure" should be applied to affected engines.

Affected vehicles: All vehicles with M10, M20, M30, M88 and S14 engines without catalytic converter or basic catalytic converter fittings.
Manufacturing period: start of series up to and including August 1984

Procedure:

1. The engines listed above can be run on unleaded fuel without problems occurring, provided that they have covered a distance of at least 60,000 km (approx. 40,000 miles). In such cases, so much lead and lead tetraethyl is diffused into the material of the valve seat rings through the past frequent refuelling with leaded fuel that the required protective effect will be present for the remaining service life (memory effect).

2. If the service life is less than 60,000 km (approx. 40,000 miles) and the driving style is sporty (high engine speeds, etc.), it is advisable to add an appropriate "valve
protection additive" to the fuel when refuelling with unleaded fuel. These additives are available from most filling stations or from renowned additive manufacturers. The additive manufacturer's directions and notes on possible risks should be carefully observed.

3. If a new cylinder head was fitted to an engine of a type listed above within the scope of a repair, and this cylinder head had been sourced from the BMW part sales
department after September 1984, unleaded fuel can then be used without restriction. This is because "hardened" valve seat rings have been installed on all BMW engines since this date. The same applies to original BMW reconditioned components.

4. If the valve seat rings in the cylinder head of vehicles from the affected manufacturing period are or were merely ground using abrasive valve paste, the lead oxide coating deposited by the "memory effect" will provide the necessary protection. If the valve seat is reworked by milling or lathing, leading to a greater degree of
material loss on the surface of the valve seat, proceed as described in point 1 or 2 above, depending on the mileage covered.

5. BMW does not recommend exchanging only the valve seat rings on engines from the affected manufacturing period for the "hardened" version, as the required assembly tools are in the main not available and because there is no real cost saving compared to fitting an original BMW cylinder head.

6. Regardless of the use of fuel additives - whether with or without lead - the octane number specified by BMW for the engine in question must still be observed.
Otherwise, interference can occur due to insufficient pre-ignition knock resistance, which can in turn cause varying degrees of engine damage.

SI Operation with unleaded fuel without "hardened" valve seats M10 M20 M30 S14 , M8 BMW AG - TIS 17.02.2010 21:30
Issue status (01/2005) Valid only until next CD is issued Copyright

Important: BMW will not accept any liability for complaints concerning damaged engine valves or valve seat rings, and arising in conjunction with the situation described above.
Number 1 of the procedure is important to think about as traditionally BMW have thought of the Service life of a vehicle as at least 80k miles miles but no more than 100k miles so in effect they are saying you'll be good on leaded from over 40k miles to just beyond 80k miles but after that who knows....

I would suggest that anything after 8/84 as mentioned in the letter is fine on unleaded - anything before should use a lead substitute additive, and if you're at all nervous about a late 1984 car then use an additive.

If you read through the other links you'll see I posted that my M635CSi 1985 Handbook says the engine is ok on unleaded whereas the 1982 635CSi Hadnbook does not - hence my decision for my two particular cars.

HTH
2001 Alpina B10 V8 Touring (1 of 12 rhd)
1997 Alpina B12 5.7 L (1 of 2 rhd)
1995 Alpina B10 4.6 Touring (1 of 1 rhd)
1985 BMW M635CSi (1 of 524 rhd)
1982 BMW 635CSiA (1 of 100's left from the 1000's made and still valiantly fighting against a rusty grave)
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