Griffo's Project Page

[Spasso]

so how can I simulate that on my e12 baser?

I suppose you could duplicate the system used on the e28 but it would take fabrication and welding and the benefits may not be worth the effort unless you plan on tracking the car.

would I simulate it with a massive anti roll bar or rear shock tower strut?

The anti-sway bar will do nothing to prevent lateral movement. It is designed as the name implies, to reduce body roll.
The rear shock tower strut stabilizes the tops of the shock towers, again, not affecting the lateral movement of the lower control arms.

[griffo]

what is this for? its of an e28 or e28 based e24 because both my e12s and my e12 based e24 doesn't have it!

IIRC, It controls lateral movement of your lower suspension swing arm so it doesn't eat the inboard and outboard pivot bushings, also common to your lower swing arm

Oh OK thanks that has cleard it up heaps guys!
I have come from valiants with leaf spring arses so a little bit of walk in the ars end won't bother me in the slightest lol
Does it add any strength to to rear subframe?

[griffo]

Hi guys I have been doing some heavy research on diff and subframe swaps for the e12 or e12 based e24, and I was wondering if you guys could clear it up for me or tell me if each mod is beneficial in terms of strength?
-supposably a 1982 e28 rear subframe will directly bolt up with no modification.
-(if early e28 subframe swap is possible) I can then bolt up a e28 m5 or any e28 diff.
-(if early e28 subframe swap is possible) I can bolt up a e34 or e34 m5 diff with no modification to early e28 subframe.

As you's can see, its all riding on the possible bolt up early e28 subframe!!!!!

PLEASE I beg of you's to clear this up as I am just about to do circus tricks since I'm so happy! Lol

[griffo]

Hi all, i notice there is no 6 speed manual conversion threads so I think this is needed for anyone who has these plans!
When I do my s38b38 swap I want a 6 speed so I was wanting to know
-how much is involved
-what is needed(parts)
-and pics would be nice
I am doing the conversion on a 1979 633csi auto

[dwcains]

You need to speak to "Shipper 01" or at least search through his threads. he's got an S38 in his early car, and he's also in Oz. Don't think he's got a 6-speed, though.

[sharkfan]

Bringing all your posts together you need to;

1. Buy a late E34 M5 with a six speed gearbox, gut it and throw a bucket of money at it to drop the drivetrain into your '79 633CSi, or

2. Buy a late E34 M5 with a six speed gearbox, skin it and throw a bigger bucket of money at it to graft on an E24 body, or

3. Take your bucket of money and buy an M635CSi and make do with 5 gears.

[baders]

He's already got the S38 and 6 speed apparently. What I would do is go talk to the mechanic that did Shippers work. Not the first guy that is

[ericono]

To the OP, do you have a 6 speed already? If so, which one? The only direct bolt on I am aware of is the 6 speed found in the later e34 M5s (mentioned above). I have heard of others looking into creating their own bell housing so that a Tremec 6 speed or a 6 speed out of another production car could be used, but I haven't actually seen any of those come to fruition. Not saying they didn't, I just haven't seen the results myself.

Also, are you looking for a double OD in the tranny or a lower 1st gear and then playing with the rear diff ratio?

Keep us posted!

Eric

[griffo]

as you guys probably know my car is an auto!
I have the 540 rad shipper uses,
I have accses to e28 m528i diff or other m5 stuff.
my diff ratio will be the tallest possible which is 3.07 lsd
I DONT have the s38 and 6 speed yet but I have it already dibsed
I basically want to know how to take the e34 m5 s38 and 6 speed and bolt it up!
will it fit under the transmission tunnel?
what mods do I need to do to bracketrys?
tailshaft mods?
i have access to evey bmw part known now so whatever is needed i can get!

[sharkfan]

as you guys probably know my car is an auto!
I have the 540 rad shipper uses,
I have accses to e28 m528i diff or other m5 stuff.
my diff ratio will be the tallest possible which is 3.07 lsd

If you're talking E34 then the tallest Diff AFAIK is the 2.93 from the 540i's.

I DONT have the s38 and 6 speed yet but I have it already dibsed

Make sure it is a good set; S38B38's are highly strung and prone to sudden failure; I know as I've BTDT. Also parts are NLA for six speed gearbox rebuilds.

I basically want to know how to take the e34 m5 s38 and 6 speed and bolt it up!
will it fit under the transmission tunnel?

AFAIK you'll be the first to try it so you tell us. An E24 was converted to full E39 S62 running gear a few years ago and needed major surgery for the gearbox IIRC.

what mods do I need to do to bracketrys?

Completely custom brackets and you'll need a E12 based manual pedal box and all the clutch control gubbins. You may have to tinker and experiment with clutch slave and master cylinders too.

tailshaft mods?

I assume you mean propshaft and yes, you'll have to make a custom propshaft.

i have access to evey bmw part known now so whatever is needed i can get!

Don't forget front suspension upgrading for the significant weight gain and the brake upgrades to rein you back in.

HTH

[GazM3]

It would be nice to have an unlimited stash of parts.

There was a 6 speed conversion done on an early chassis e24 in nsw. Think his name was cam blaser? Not sure how he handled the flywheel sensors.

I'm pretty sure it fitted in the trans tunnel. I had an article on it in one of the Bmw club mags. I'll have to search for it if I've still got it that is

[griffo]

It would be nice to have an unlimited stash of parts.

There was a 6 speed conversion done on an early chassis e24 in nsw. Think his name was cam blaser? Not sure how he handled the flywheel sensors.

I'm pretty sure it fitted in the trans tunnel. I had an article on it in one of the Bmw club mags. I'll have to search for it if I've still got it that is

oh ok well maybe i might have to do a five speed then!
i will be doing a full recondition on the s38(my friend is a BMW mastertech)
i can get e12 4 cylinder clutch pedal slave cylinder etc so would that work or do i need 6 cylinder?
can i use the brackets from a 4 speed e12?
if i decided to go 5 speed what will bolt up to the s38?

[griffo]

come on guys I'm not asking a stupid question!

[griffo]

come on guys again i am not asking a stupid question!

[griffo]

come on guys!

[GRNSHRK]

griffo, take a look at this site, but I didn't see anything indicating that the E12 ///M535i had a stronger diff (rear end) than any other E12 chassis based Bimmer

What is important for you to know is that these differentials are called "sideloaders", due to how they are assembled, and do not exchange whatsoever with the E28 chassis, rear subframe, etc.

Anyhoo, take a look

http://www.m535i.org/

[Shipper 01]

No, not if you use the speed signal simulator.

According to some crappy mechanics you need to swap in an e28 rear subframe to get the e28 diff with the speed sensor. The argument here is that the sideloader diff in the e12 chassis never came with a speed sensor. But this is crap.

The E34 M5 gauge cluster picks up the speed signal from the E34 diff sensor and cleans it, prior to running it to the ECU. I tried an e28 gauge cluster and it was just too old to clean any signal, so it simply cannot be done.

So I am now running my old mechanical 3 dial e12 chassis gauge cluster, the exact same one in your photo complete with the auto gear leaver lights. And the S38B38. So order your speed signal simulator and go to Koala to get your engine brackets.

Note that for best performance you can go a stand alone Haltech or Motech ECU but add $5k to the build as a minimum.

[GRNSHRK]

...so while it will require input from some source, hopefully that can be sorted

However, where you are definitely gonna run into problems is the speedo, which is mechanically driven on the E12 cars

It is my understanding that the drive or source for the speedo in the E28 comes from the rear end, so if you get that E28 diff issue sorted, you may be well on your way

I think I would still try and connect with shipper105 (or whatever his handle is ) and you will probably get answers to lots of your questions

[Shipper 01]

I run a 5 speed overdrive with the mechanical speedo pickup. So the gauge cluster on the e12 manual runs off of the gearbox and never the diff. This is why 5 speed dogleg boxes sometimes come with a mechanical speed pickup as the E9's , E3's and E12's never had speed sensors in their sideloaders so needed the gearbox to run the gauge cluster.

[GRNSHRK]

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=25417

This project is some serious work, and I think he's down under as well

[GRNSHRK]

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=26300

He did farm out a lot of the work and also indicated that he would never attempt it again

There's a bit of ranting as well in this thread, hopefully these mates have gotten that all sorted as well

[Shipper 01]

Long story short you do not need the e28 rear subframe for your swap. It takes some modification. The rear sway bar needs removal and re-welding of cleats. The connection points on the frame need modification. There's $1k plus of mod work to get it to fit.

The only reason you would swap in an E28 rear subframe would be to take advantage of the huge selection of LSD's available for this frame. The sideloader LSD's are very very rare and hard to get. You do not need the E28 rear subframe for strength or any other reason. Just for a better LSD selection.

[griffo]

hallaloha

[griffo]

ok so when i make custom brackets for my 6 speed i will run a e28 speedo in the e12 style cluster off the gearbox then to the speed simulator the to the after market ecu
am i right?

[griffo]

ok thanks