Griffo's Project Page

[griffo]

so to clarify-
i CAN get a EARLY PRE 82' e28 subframe and bolt her up then i can strengthen the fook out of it!then that will give me access to e28 diffs?
how to i battle what is talked wheel aligment here? http://store.garagistic.com/E24-E28-adj ... conversion
also can anyone please show me pics of the areas where i will need to strengthen it?!!!!!

[griffo]

i still want a 6 speed so please find that link for me! i am sorry for being a pain guys its just i like to know everything about what I'm doing and more and because knowing everything is impossible i am always a pain for asking questions!
SORRY

[griffo]

hi guys i just had a thought-
can i use the e12 style subframe but take the center part of the e28 subframe and mold it into the e12 subframe? then use the e28 bomb proof diff mount?
also can i swap the e12 rear diff cover to the e28 diff?
would this work?
would anything else need to be changed or can i just bolt the diff up to the now frankenstien subframe?

[GazM3]

I don't know quite what u are asking. The s38 has same bolt pattern as m30 and s14(e30 m3 engine) so any 5spd will bolt up. The only 6spd that will bolt up is the one from the e34 m5 3.8 with the update. If u can get one u are doing well. I thought u had access to a 6spd box.

The adv of the 6spd is you can have some low gearing with an overdrive. It will keep the engine on the boil when having a go.

The s38 has good torque and will carry tall gears ok so a 5spd will be less headache and expense.

[griffo]

what sort of mounts do I use though?

[griffo]

hi guys (shipper),
I am about to send my fuel tank away to get reconditioned so I was wondering If I will need to change anything I the fuel tank, pick up, pump, filter on my 79 633csi for the s38b38?

[Shipper 01]

Griffo,

You need an older model 5 speed gearbox with the mechanical speedo cable. Your 6 speed box will not have a speed signal port for your mechanical gauge cluster. So your gauge cluster will stop working.

This will also mean you do not need to modify your rear subframe.

And you can ask all of these questions under the one topic. No need to start a new topic every time you have a question. It is the same build on the same car after all.

[Shipper 01]

hi guys i just had a thought-
can i use the e12 style subframe but take the center part of the e28 subframe and mold it into the e12 subframe? then use the e28 bomb proof diff mount?
also can i swap the e12 rear diff cover to the e28 diff?
would this work?
would anything else need to be changed or can i just bolt the diff up to the now frankenstien subframe?

1. you want to fabricate a brand new style of rear subframe as a hybrid of the e28 and e12? Very costly. Cheaper just to modify the e28 rear subframe and put it in. but that's still $$$ of fabrication and only needed if you want lots of options on e28 diffs.
2. The bomb proof mount may fit your hybrid but will still not fit the car chassis floor. So more costly fabrication work.
3. the e12 diff is a sideloader, so the side comes off. The later e28 diffs are rear loaders. So the diff cover is on the rear. You cannot swap any parts at all. They are completely different in shape and in a completely different location. You can change the rear cover on an e30 diff and place it on an e28.

Leave the rear subframe and diff alone for now. Do the following;

a. engine in. Koala have the engine brackets for this swap!
b. early 5 speed overdrive box in.
c. connect old mechanical speedo to mechanical speed port in 5 speed overdrive box.
e. performance clutch in.
f. speed signal simulator in and hooked up to S38B38 ECU.

CAR RUNS!

If you want to fiddle with diff ratios do this later. You are better of taking your side loader to a specialist and getting a 3.73 LSD centre put in.

Have you found a decent S38B38 engine yet? I'd start there. The last I saw in Australia had 250k kms on it and they wanted $15k on ebay.com.au. Bring your wallet with you.

[Shipper 01]

so to clarify-
i CAN get a EARLY PRE 82' e28 subframe and bolt her up then i can strengthen the fook out of it!then that will give me access to e28 diffs?
how to i battle what is talked wheel aligment here? http://store.garagistic.com/E24-E28-adj ... conversion
also can anyone please show me pics of the areas where i will need to strengthen it?!!!!!

There are no early pre 82 e28 subrames. All subframes pre mid 1982 are e12 and you already have one on your car.

Check your rear subframe for cracks. If uncracked, your fabricator can add some strength where needed or, leave it alone. You are already looking at $30k with your current preferred list of works. Cut some meat out of it and just put the engine in with an older 5 speed overdrive manual.

[Shipper 01]

ok so when i make custom brackets for my 6 speed i will run a e28 speedo in the e12 style cluster off the gearbox then to the speed simulator the to the after market ecu
am i right?

No, the e28 speedo will have no signal input as your 6 speed will not provide this and your e12 sideloader diff will not provide this.

So - e28 cluster - e28 rear subframe and diff, open or lsd needed for cluster to work. 6 speed possible.

- e12 cluster - e28 rear subramfe and diffs no help. Needs older 5 speed box with mechanical speed port.

- speed signal simulator needed no matter which box/rear subframe-diff you choose. runs to the S38B38 ECU.

- in another post I said allow $30k for your current dream list. Add another $5k or more for the aftermarket ECU if you go that way.

And griffo, seriously, put all questions in the one topic, far easier for us all to help you there.

[griffo]

yea but I do want to put a 6 speed in because I am going to use a speed signal senser arnt I?
I want the six speed because that's what was bolted up to the s38b38 e34 motor so that's what it needs!
we have already said I am going to put a aftermarket ecu and speed signal simulator on it so what do I need EXACTLY to make it work?

[griffo]

haha got one dibsed for 5k!
its got a bit of head and cam work to boot!
yea haw!
look I can get anything made my mate is a fully qualified C6 fitter with more quals none to man! my other mate is a bmw mastertech with over 50yrs in the field and worked all over the world with bmw as a mastertech so I just need the advice from you lot to make this possible!
of so this is possible!
will the a arms were the e28 halve shalfes go in bolt up to were the e12 halve shalfs were?
this is far better idea!

[griffo]

but are those early e28s that had 528s have the rear loader diff?

[griffo]

I looked up the aftermarket ecu and they are 800?

[griffo]

it just hit me! so I need a output for the speedo no matter what? either diff or gearbox? am I right?
now what run the rev counter though?

[griffo]

ow ok I just had a look!
so the speed sensor eliminates the need for a diff speed sensor or an gearbox sensor?
basically I need the simulator you used then I can run whatever diff and gearbox I like?
an I understanding it now?

[Shipper 01]

ow ok I just had a look!
so the speed sensor eliminates the need for a diff speed sensor or an gearbox sensor?
basically I need the simulator you used then I can run whatever diff and gearbox I like?
an I understanding it now?

No. You eliminate the engine issue. You still need to select a diff or gearbox that can run your speedo. The speed signal simulator will not do that. It will just tell the S38B38 ECU that the car is moving so give it full hp.

but are those early e28s that had 528s have the rear loader diff?

Early e28's, as in early 5 series cars had e12 chassis like yours. So would have a sideloader diff. We call pre 1982 5 series cars e28's but they are actually e12's!

haha got one dibsed for 5k!
its got a bit of head and cam work to boot!
yea haw!
look I can get anything made my mate is a fully qualified C6 fitter with more quals none to man! my other mate is a bmw mastertech with over 50yrs in the field and worked all over the world with bmw as a mastertech so I just need the advice from you lot to make this possible!
of so this is possible!
will the a arms were the e28 halve shalfes go in bolt up to were the e12 halve shalfs were?
this is far better idea!

If you have a BMW mastertech then all your questions to us are moot. He'd know far more than most of us will ever know, combined. If someone is selling you an S38B38 for $5k, stop bagsing it and go and pick it up now. Seriously, a tired engine in Australia is $12k to $15k and then you need up to $10k to refreshen it back to new.

As to diff's, rear subframes, et.al we are going around in circles. Decide what you want from the car first and then set a list of requirements. You keep putting up options that confuses the hell out of our advice.

So; do the following;

1. Decide if S38B38 is going in. If it is then you need the ECU, wiring loom, new performance clutch, a good car electrician to set up alternate sensors, the koala engine mounts, some fabrication, old engine and loom out. Here's far more work than needed.

2. Decide on your gearbox. Go a 5 speed overdrive. Your car will still run 0-62mh in around 5 to 5.5 seconds and your mechanical speedo will work. Or;
a. go a 5 speed dogleg and a taller diff. Again like the 5 speed overdrive box your dogleg needs to be pre 1982.
b. go a 6 speed but you will need to replace the subframe and diff and the gauge cluster all for e28.

3. Decide if you want the ability to select and swap diffs. If your car is for street use and a little track fun, then leave the e12 chassis and depending on your gearbox selection, place lsd components of the right ratio to support the gearbox selected (you'd go taller for the dogleg and shorter for the overdrive) in your sideloader.

If you want a track weapon, buy a Renault RS 275. To put them into perspective, they'll lap the nurburgring 1 second faster than a Ferrari 430 or the BMW F10 M5 with the twin turbo. All for $60k. If you want a sleeper that is fun on the track (surprisingly fast to those who think you should not be fast) or a powerful suprising cruiser that looks beautiful, then put an S38B38 into a 6'er.

yea but I do want to put a 6 speed in because I am going to use a speed signal senser arnt I?
I want the six speed because that's what was bolted up to the s38b38 e34 motor so that's what it needs!
we have already said I am going to put a aftermarket ecu and speed signal simulator on it so what do I need EXACTLY to make it work?

No quite right.

For most markets, the 5 speed box went with the S38B38. It did come with a 6 speed box towards the end of its run. A 5 speed will bolt straight up. The speed signal sensor only helps your ECU control your engine. It does not solve the speed reading to your cluster gauge issue.

If you use an after market ECU you may not need the speed signal simulator. The S38B38 ECU looks for a speed signal or stops the last 50hp or so. I have no idea whether or not an after market ECU is searching for a speed signal or reducing hp. I'd assume the more expensive ECU's would not need this signal.

hi guys (shipper),
I am about to send my fuel tank away to get reconditioned so I was wondering If I will need to change anything I the fuel tank, pick up, pump, filter on my 79 633csi for the s38b38?

The S38B38 needs new fuel pumps. I'd change them when reconditioning a tank even if I was not upgrading the engine. Ship, they are nearly 40 years old now!


Finally, rename one of your threads "Griffo's S38B38 Engine swap" and put all questions of any nature into it. Makes it far far easier to track and answer questions. Some of your topics ask questions already answered in others.

[hornhospital]

Finally, rename one of your threads "Griffo's S38B38 Engine swap" and put all questions of any nature into it. Makes it far far easier to track and answer questions. Some of your topics ask questions already answered in others.

^^AMEN TO THAT^^!!! I've never see so many threads started by the same person asking the same questions 10 different ways. It's gotten extremely confusing. I can appreciate your enthusiasm, but all these questions need to be in a single thread, or at the most, two threads (suspension/differential conversion and engine swap).

[griffo]

ok thanks I have been racking my brain but that realy cleared it up! so thanks!
would it be possible to put these threads in a section or something so they don't get lost because they are great help?
I am waiting for the bloke to get back from holidays then I will wait for him to "crack the shits" with the car the s38 is in then I will snatch it up! and that's all I will say cause I believe in the ol saying "lose lips sink ships"!

[griffo]

ok guys sorry for being a pain and asking the questions in different threads it is very selfish of me to take up the vauable space of this forum!

so I have the old style 1979 633 tank the fuel pump and filter are brand new ($165) bloody hell was that expencive!
but do I need to get a bigger pump or filter or do I need to change the old style single piece pick up?

[hornhospital]

No, and no.

It wasn't the space taken up by your questions. It was that they were scattered all over the site!

[griffo]

ok thanks guys I am thankful for the support I have been given! I have just come from a forum called "e30 zone" and they are the biggest bunch of dickheads around!
so I don't need to change the pick up or sensors of anything in fuel delivery to run the s38b38?

[Shipper 01]

ok thanks I have been racking my brain but that realy cleared it up! so thanks!
would it be possible to put these threads in a section or something so they don't get lost because they are great help?
I am waiting for the bloke to get back from holidays then I will wait for him to "crack the shits" with the car the s38 is in then I will snatch it up! and that's all I will say cause I believe in the ol saying "lose lips sink ships"!

Of course you can pull every topic and question into one topic. That's what I did above, see your questions from all of your last topics highlighted? So, go to each and every one of your topics, hit the (") button in the top of each reply/question you want to save. It should come up in a reply box. Copy and paste the text. Pick one of your existing topics and copy and paste everything into there. Then ask the admins to delete your unwanted topics. This will take you time but it will stop questions and answers being lost across 10 separate topics.

There are a lot of questions you ask that are not yet relevant. We don not know which way your build will go and until you buy engines, gearboxes and diffs we really have no idea how to answer the technical fabrication/install questions.

So, choose a build, acquire the parts, start the build, ask anything your gun fabricator or BMW specialist cannot answer.

My advice, tidy up your car now. Get it running really well. Then let us know as you buy the parts.

[griffo]

yea I'm gonna aquare s38 and 5 speed then just enjoy that then I will swap the diff out and 6 speed in!
the bmw mastertech only knows about the FACTORY side so he knows nothing about modifying it!
you guys do tho!

[slofut]

One of the best things I've done to my '88 is convert to a single in-tank pump, used a universal. No more starving below 1/4 tank.