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JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

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Mamod17
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JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:43 pm

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Hi all, doing some sleuthing on the JPS road going cars of the 80s. Seems there was no records kept of private orders of 635s solid Schwarz cars created in JPS livery. There was a run of official numbered E21s.

This one is up for sale in QLD.

Here’s the story so far:



1978 633csi

Originally auto, converted to manual.

JPS Steering wheel, pillar badges.

JPS Pinstriping and spoiler lip.

According to previous owners, Frank Gardener had eyeballed the car and said it was used by as a company car by JPS team.

I spoke to Jim Richards at Bathurst yesterday and he said the team only drove 3s and 5s as 6s were too expensive.

It’s a 78 car and the JPS team was formed in 81 - so maybe it was a Grice car before Jim joined the team.

If it wasn’t a team car maybe it was as special order. Jim thinks there were about 6 made - maybe…


Can anyone shed light on this mystery? Any contacts I should be following up?

 ](*,)
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daz635
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by daz635 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:55 am

Hi Mamod

Very nice looking early 633. Is it an original Schwartz car or has it been resprayed? If originally Schwartz it will be quite rare.

The JPS team never made any 635's because as Jim has said they were way too expensive. E24's were also way too expensive to be used by the team for road cars as well. Being an early car it is highly unlikely to be connected to the JPS team

This car would be classed as a tribute as it has has the JPS badges added to the pillar and the steering wheel by a previous owner. The gold striping and gold painted later wheels have also been added later

There have been quite a few Tribute cars built over the years. This one was the best, it was built in Queensland in the 90's and turns up every now and then for sale
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/ind ... ic=12371.0

As Jim has said only the 3's and 5's were used. E21's and E30's as well as an E28 which was presented to Jim for winning the 1985 Touring Car Championship (not sure if any more were built)

The man you need to speak to is Addam Smith from Bavarian Classics and Restorations on the Gold Coast. He is the guru of all things E24 and JPS. He has a JPS replica and owned/restored the JPS E28 shown below at recently. He is a wealth of knowledge and will be able to answer any questions you have about the car.

https://www.facebook.com/Bavarian-Class ... 796510086/

Also there is ans Aussie E24 facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/AussieSharksE24/
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E28 JPS presented to Jim for winning ATCC in 1985
'86 Euro 635 #1887204 Schwartz (086) Buffalo Schwartz Interior
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Shipper 01
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Shipper 01 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:17 pm

I think Daz summed that up very well.

I am often in contact with Pip Barker, the JPS engine builder, as he built me a race engine. I'll mention it to him next time we chat. Jim would know however and if he said no 6'ers were ever used, then none were. Addam also knows his stuff inside out. Go have a chat to him.

Mamod17
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:00 am

Thanks Daz and Shipper:

Update, spoken to Addam at BA and also Stewart from JPS registry who spoke to Pip...not one of their cars. Also seems that no records were kept of any special dealer orders on Schwarz. My feeling is also that Schwarz is very rare. 78 feels too early for any JPS liveried cars.

I would have thought the badges and steering wheels would be tricky to replicate? Also what do you make of the seats is there any way to tell if they are original?


I tried looking up the VIN on ream OEM.

Here is the VIN: 4391277 I could only look it up on rem OEM - would like to find out if it was originally Shwarz - do you know of any more detailed Vin search engines?

I've attached the results form REAL OEM.

Thanks for your help. Its a real intrigue!
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1986 635csi 5speed Alpine White M-Tech Aust Del
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Shipper 01
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Shipper 01 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:02 am

On a VIN decoder I favour, that VIN number comes up as an E9. https://www.bmw-z1.com/VIN/VINdecode-e.cgi

The seats look period correct but, given the amount of work that has gone into the car as a tribute car, no doubt the seats are an add on.

There are a few more VIN decoders that work well. When I punched in the 7 number code you gave us I get errors. This happens as most decoders do not carry E9 and E3 codes.

So my gut feel says;

1. Tribute car.
2. Possible engine swap to that of an E9.
3. Could have been a factory manual but VIN says E9 LHD Auto.
4. Looks nicely done but no where near enough photos.
5. A 78 633 should come up correctly on the VIN decoder I have given you the link too. My 77 633 does.
6. Given the lack of photos and all of the suspicion, plus not being able to check engine and chassis number match, higly unlikely paint is original.

So, but as a tribute car only. May have a 2.9 litre motor. Needs lots and lots of photos and checks but will more than likely just be a nice 633 dressed up (nicely) by a 6'er enthusiast.

Shipper 01
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Shipper 01 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:45 am

I've run the VIN through additional decoders.

All but one cannot handle the VIN.

This website https://www.etkbmw.com/bmw/EN/vin/decoder/4391277/EN

Says;

Manufact : 02. 1982
Steering : R
Gearbox : A

So the engine could be okay. But looks like the gearbox may have been changed. Again, absolutely everything points towards a tribute car. Not JPS. No relationship to JPS Team or Frank. Simply a not over the top tribute car. Or could you call it "tastily done"? So buy it based on aesthetics and condition alone. No value based on anything special or rare or any connection to anyone.

Mamod17
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:34 am

Great, thanks Shipper I punched in the vin 4391277 to your decoder and got e24 code 5242...?

I've pretty much given up on it being officially associated with the team, other than some stories. From my research it is Schwarz and hasn't been resprayed. Not sure about originality of the seats and not sure how to find out. However you're right, it's a nice looking car, rare in black and certainly has presence. Hard to tell in the shots but it also has a Zender body kit. Do you have any idea where could source info o what seats these models had as options? That might help.

I'm flying up on Friday to take a look at it...just the adventure will be fun, even if it doesn't come off.

Cheers

Mamod
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1986 635csi 5speed Alpine White M-Tech Aust Del
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Shipper 01
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Shipper 01 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:42 pm

No idea re the seats and yes, it looks like a tastily modified car. Love that little dash speaker to the lower right of the steering wheel. Post some more pics and let us know what he is after. If you want a 6'er and the price is right, this looks like a decent buy.

Check the gauge cluster to see if it still has the auto gear selection lights across the top. And yes, looks like a good body kit as well.

Mamod17
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:46 am

Update: Rego drama: Looks like it's a private import - no compliance plate - Apparently they weren't required prior to 89 I think so the owner is speaking to Canberra trying to get paperwork to register in NSW - haven't seen the car yet, was hoping to Friday but looks like it will be next week. Owner is looking for 20k. Assume its in good nick, registered. What do you think?
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Shipper 01
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Shipper 01 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:28 am

Where is it located?

Addam is the best litmus test for price. $20k seems to be a good middle price for a low-ish mileage 635 but I bought at the bottom of the market so am probably not the best to help you with price.

If it is in Sydney I could take a look for you as could a few others.

Let us know how you go. Make sure you test drive and look for rust.

Mamod17
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:18 am

Thanks, its in northern NSW - Addam might help me check it out. Will keep you posted!
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daz635
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by daz635 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:20 pm

Definitely grab Addam if you can. He will save you a lot of money in the long run if the car is a dog because he knows exactly where to look

As shipper has said rust is the biggest problem in these early cars especially being a UK grey import. You really need to have a good look underneath. As Addam will tell you for proper rust repair the $ quickly add up

Trim pieces both inside and out are becoming had to get new for the early cars so check their condition.

$20k is not a bad price if everything checks out.

Double check with your insurance on grey import cars some don't like them

Keep us updated on how you go
'86 Euro 635 #1887204 Schwartz (086) Buffalo Schwartz Interior
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Mamod17
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:29 pm

Great, thanks Daz, so yours is an 86 Schwarz? Aussie delivered? That must be pretty rare. One of the reasons I chasing this one is because of the colour, but if there's a couple of later model Schwarz I could always hold out..will know better when I have a look in person...
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Mamod17
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:37 pm

One thing I'd really like to do is find the 17 number VIN - all I have is the last 7 no's. 4391277 - Will check elsewhere on this site...
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daz635
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by daz635 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:42 am

Maybe worth sending an email to the BMW Classic Group in Germany

[email protected]

They could help you out with the whole VIN number and possibly give you the options that the car came with as well as it's original colour.

I have only seen 1 other Schwartz car hardly any were sold in Australia. A few more in diamond Schwartz though

Took me 3 years to find the car that I wanted.
'86 Euro 635 #1887204 Schwartz (086) Buffalo Schwartz Interior
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Mamod17
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:04 am

Great, I'll try them tonight...
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Mamod17
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:48 am

From Andreas at BMW classic.


The BMW 633CSi rhd Automatic VIN 4391277 was manufactured on March 2nd, 1978 and delivered on March 8th, 1978 to the importer BMW Concessionaires G.B. Ltd. The original colour was Black, paint code 086.

At this time BMW used only seven-digit VIN's so there's no longer version for this car.
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Shipper 01 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:29 pm

Still represents good value if you can knock a little off of the $20k. Once you drive it or get a ride in it you'll feel if it is a solid car.

Personally, I like the tribute theme.

Mamod17
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:52 am

Update. Owner has removed head due to overheating, blown gasket. Sounds like the second time the heads been off. Hasn’t been driven very often so sounds like endemic issue. Not filling me with confidence. Only value of the car is the black body I think. Will take a look at it anyway but won’t be for a while....
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by GRNSHRK » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:25 pm

Looking at the model year of this example ('78), it brings to mind what BMW was doing during that vintage to attempt to meet emissions restrictions, at least here in the states :-?

BMW used what was called a thermal reactor ( :shock: ) and aux air pump to deal with unburnt emissions, until they finally went the catalytic converter route, for the 1980 model year :-k

These were well known to produce a tremendous amount of heat, often cracking the head in the process #-o

Is it possible that this example has that dreaded setup as well [-X

Any photos from under the bonnet [-o<

Still looks cool and can be dealt with, we're here to help, you know \:D/
:mrgreen:
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Shipper 01
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Shipper 01 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:34 pm

Mamod17 a good M30B35 will set you back $500 to $1250. Engine woes are the least expensive item. A really good body and clean interior is worth more.

I have found from personal experience that heads warp when overheated. Could be that post a previous overheat, the head lifted either end. My S38B38 head (comes in two horizontal layers and not one like the B35) had lifted more than 1mm each end. As you can imagine this does not allow for the protection of the head gasket as it is not under a lot of pressure and you can get gasket failure here.

If you like it and get a good deal, take it to Addam and let him weave his magic. I would expect, given the current issues and time undriven and parked in a shed, that the car needs $2k to $3.5k to ensure it is a reliable and sporty little beast. Take this off of the asking price.

Mamod17
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:56 am

Thanks Shipper, completely agree. I really can't see this head lasting another round. For an M30B35, assume would you need to change the computer and ancillaries to a the later model?

I'm conflicted, my white 6er is Addam's old car, great motor. I would love a black car (looks like with a dud motor). I will just have to have a really close look at the body to see how its holding up.
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Mamod17
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:02 am

Thanks GRSHRK,

Only under bonnet shots I have are these to date. When I finally look at the car (It's about 1000k away) I'll take some better shots.
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by MrE » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:16 am

Interesting find Mamod, and it's developed into a very interesting thread too.

$20K seems way too much to me, certainly here in the Australian market. Based on the pics & info it does look like it's a car that has been appreciated and valued by its owner, but it's asking price may depend on how sturdy and strong the car feels when you get to see it. Being a 78 car it's had a long life and I imagine its pretty tired really in terms of all it's mechanicals, brakes, cooling system, suspension, hydraulics, electrics, hoses etc. And these days some of the specific E12 replacement components are getting much more difficult to source. Even though the motor has been rebuilt it'd be interesting to know the odometer, and how long it's been in Australia.

The JPS steering wheel does look tidy, and its possible those styling mods were done in the late 80s or early 90s when bits like that may have been more readily available.

Let us know what you find out mate.

-Ellis
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Mamod17
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Re: JPS 633csi Special Order - Can anyone verify?

Post by Mamod17 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:27 am

Pretty sure it was imported in 78, so pretty much straight from the UK. Lived in Qld form the 90s. It's got about 132k on it. Confirmed black 086.

From the images looks like it's been pretty well cared for. However, with no service history, dodgy head its starting to become too much of a risk. I guess if I could pick it up for 12k I could do what's been suggested, which is transplant.

But had a good chat to Addam Smith today and maybe better off spending the total sum on building a black car from scratch rather than messing with an unknown quantity. I'd basically be buying it for the black body, if it was straight.

I tracked down some pics for the previous owner. It certainly looked the good 16 years ago...
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1986 635csi 5speed Alpine White M-Tech Aust Del
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