RUST!

Basic needs related to restoring a 6er including
Electronics, Bodywork, Welding, Painting, Engine Swap, etc
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sansouci
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RUST!

Post by sansouci »

How about a compendium of materials and techniques for repairing, treating and maintaining a rust free 6'r. Not sure you guys in SoCal or AZ are much interested because of your very dry environment, but those of us who have to contend with rain, snow, road salt, etc. always need to know.
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)
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slofut
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Re: RUST!

Post by slofut »

Two of my favorite companies for rust treatment. Been using the master series for 30+years, have sealed fuel tanks with it, made dash parts with glass cloth, and repaired all kinds of stuff with it. Been using KBS since they were first on the market a few years back, they have lots of other very useful paint related products.

https://www.kbs-coatings.com/RustSeal.html

and

http://www.masterseriesct.com/page4.html
'87 635csi, 5sp man, dk blu on pearl beige
'88 635csi, auto, black on grey
'63 BMW Isetta
'75 XJ6C, 2dr, warm 350
'86 XJ6, th700r4
'75TR6
'64 Olds 88 conv
"68 T120 Bonneville
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sansouci
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Re: RUST!

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From the National Center for Preservation Technology:
Comparative Study of Commercially Available Rust Converters
BY JASON CHURCH ON AUGUST 6, 2014 · 38 COMMENTS · IN MATERIALS CONSERVATION, NEWS
NCPTT In house Research: Comparative Study of Commercially Available Rust Converters

Starting in the summer of 2010 Materials Conservator Jason Church and Materials Conservation Intern Anna Muto began a study comparing commercially available rust converters. A rust converter is a chemical treatment that turns iron oxide into a more stable form such as iron tannate. The advantage of a rust converter is the treatment is less invasive and the only surface treatment needed is a cleaning of loose rust and soiling generally with a wire brush. Rust converters have wide stretching usage in conservation, they are used from the stabilization of iron based museum artifacts and collections to iron architectural elements and outdoor sculpture.

This study is based on a widely read and quoted study done by CCI and published in 1995. Besides the numerous positives that this respected study has there are three aspects that we wanted to change. The first is the issue of age, this study was started in 1987 and has become outdated; the chemicals recommended are no longer available. The second issue is that the study did not go into much detail about quantifying the results of their testing. In this aspect we hope to improve on the CCI study. The third issue is timing; the original study was done with natural weathering over an eight year period. This is not actually a negative but a positive for the results of the study however our study will utilize NCPTT’s capabilities with accelerated weathering.

For this study we are using naturally weathered mild steel coupons cut with a mechanical sheer (as to not alter the surface of the metal) to 3”x6” the size of the QUV plates. Each of the front face of the plates will be treated with a rust converter, tested weathered and tested again. The products will be evaluated and ranked by rate of failure.

The samples were evaluated by a variety of techniques before being treated with the rust converter, after being treated, and every 200 hours (for a total of 1000 hours) of artificial weathering. In this study, naturally rusted samples were treated with five commercially available rust converters that were chosen for accessibility and chemical variance. With the exception of the “CCI Recipe” all of the chemicals are commercially available. The “CCI Receipt” was added to the study after a survey of chemicals used was sent out to metals conservators and the results were found that a majority of the conservator polled used this recipe as opposed to a commercially available product. To evaluate which rust converters function best over an extended period of time, NCPTT used several analytical techniques. Condition was assessed before treatment, after treatment, and at several points during artificial weathering. Photography was used to document physical appearance throughout the experiment. Colorimetry, magnetic induction thickness measurements, gloss measurements and laser profilometry together charted changes in the surface and coating of the samples. Finally, Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy helped to characterize the primary chemical compounds present on the surface of the treated metal during the study.

The five chemicals chosen for this study are listed below. The chemicals were chosen to represent each of the major types of rust converters. The chemicals in each category were selected based on their popularity in the commercial market place. The goal of this study is to provide the end user be it home owner or museum conservator with the knowledge needed to make an informed decision when selecting a rust converter.

Rust-oleum® Rust Reformer® is a tannic acid based rust converting product. It also has an acrylic vinylidene chloride copolymer additive. Tannic acid acts as a chelating agent while the copolymer creates a protective coating. The product has a pH of 2.13, falling in the mid-range pH of this study’s converters. Rust Reformer® has a relatively thick consistency, and is blue-ish white in appearance.

OSPHO®, manufactured by the Skybryte Company, is a phosphoric acid based rust converting product balanced with dichromate and wetting agents. OSPHO® is by far the most acidic rust converter of those tested. The product’s pH is 0.08, and is a thin, translucent green liquid.

Corroseal® is a rust converting product based in gallic acid. This converter is composed of gallic acid, ethylene glycol and acetate. It is relatively acidic, both generally and in comparison to other tested converters, with a pH of 1.50. Corroseal® is creamy white and has a thick consistency

RCx427 is a product of Enviro-Safe Services, Inc. that uses oxalic acid as the rust converting compound. Like Corroseal®, it also incorporates ethylene glycol in the chemical composition. Oxalic acid as an active ingredient—a compound that exhibits different physical properties after conversion. Instead of causing the iron oxide layer to darken, it instead turns a light gray. Of the tested rust converters, this product is the least acidic with a pH of 3.11. RCx427 has a thick consistency and is a blue-gray color.

The 10% Tannic Acid solution stands out from the other rust converters in that the solution is not commercially available but must be prepared. However, a survey of metal conservators done by conservation graduate student Rose Daly indicated that the “CCI Recipe” for tannic acid solution was used more often than commercially available rust converting products. As such, it was deemed important to include in the study. The preparation method outlined in the CCI Note “Tannic Acid Treatment” was followed (CCI Note, 1989). As directed, 2.75 mL of phosphoric acid was added to lower pH to 2.39, and fell into the mid-range of acidity in this study’s converters. The solution is thin and appears a translucent, orange-red color.

At the end of the accelerated weathering only the samples treated with Rust-oleum® Rust Reformer® showed no or only slight signs of any failure and no active corrosion. This research was completed in the summer of 2012, afterwards the results were presented at ICOM CC Metal 2013 in Edinburgh, Scotland. The results of the study were also published in the conference proceedings. Click here for pdf of paper.

The next phase of the study began in the summer of 2013 with Jason Church and intern Sarah Hunter looking at how rust converters react in a salt environment. In this current research the samples will run 200 hours accelerated weathering followed by four cycles of the SWAAT test.

For this phase of the study we are repeating the same tests and testing parameters on Rust-oleum® Rust Reformer® and four other commercially available rust converters. One of the main questions for this phase of the study is how do other rust converters chemically similar to Rust-oleum® Rust Reformer® preform and compare. For the phase two of the study we are comparing

Rust-oleum® Rust Reformer® is a tannic acid based rust converting product. It also has an acrylic vinylidene chloride copolymer additive. Tannic acid acts as a chelating agent while the copolymer creates a protective coating. The product has a pH of 2.13, falling in the mid-range pH of this study’s converters. Rust Reformer® has a relatively thick consistency, and is blue-ish white in appearance.

Fertan® is a tannic acid based rust converting product. It also has an zinc nitrate additive. This product has a pH of 1.4-2.0.

Conquest® is a tannic acid based rust converting product. It has a vinyl acrylic polymchloride copolymer additive. Tannic acid acts as a chelating agent while the copolymer creates a protective coating. The product has a pH of 1.3

Jasco Prep and Prime®, is a phosphoric acid based rust converting product. This thin green converter has a pH of 1.

Krud Kutter® is a phosphoric acid based rust converting product. This thin green converter has a pH of 1.

This phase of the project is expected to finish around the beginning of 2015. The project’s final goal will be to test the best two rust convertors with the addition to a painting system and test this until failure. More information will be blogged as the research progresses.


J.C.S.F. Cosby says:
February 26, 2016 at 9:42 AM
I have much confidence in your research for an independent revue. I am an amateur coach built classic car restorer. Not in a position to have everything stripped and sandblasted. Trying to keep everything original. Extremely rusted areas are cut-out and fitted with welded replacements. However,there exist an enormous amount of pitted areas where one wants to apply the best available product to convert the pitted rust in these areas,followed by a suitable primers for maximum protection, before final topcoat. Not all primers accept cellulose. After much going around classic car restoration shows I have purchased Fertan
and Rustbuster fe123. For no scientific reason,I tend to use the Fertan with preferance. One has to wash it with water the next day. In metal areas underneath the cowlings and the chassis I have followed this with Rustoluem 769 primer, followed by two coats of Rustoleum Alkythane paint. The exposed areas of the cowling will have to be followed by a cellulose High Built Primer,or with BONDA zinc primer followed by a high build primer,followed by Cellulose top coats. Rustoleum 769 I understand will not take cellulose.
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)
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sansouci
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Re: RUST!

Post by sansouci »

These folks have a "Guide To Rust" link. I am looking for a comparative test I read some years ago in Practical Classics published in the UK

http://www.rust.co.uk/
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)
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sansouci
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Re: RUST!

Post by sansouci »

These folks have a "Guide To Rust" link.
http://www.rust.co.uk/

Here's s link to a scan of the comparative test of strippers from Classics Monthly:

https://www.xj40.com/viewtopic.php?t=3026
Last edited by sansouci on Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)
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sansouci
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Re: RUST!

Post by sansouci »

From Classics Monthly:

Anti-rust Test Update
The external coatings update from the third and final* year of the independent Classics Monthly long-term anti-rust test

First published in issue 190, this is the first of two updates for year three. Click here for the Cavity Waxes update *Our long term test is now in its final year and we will announce the winners at the end of it. That isn’t the end of the test though – we will continue to monitor and report on the treatments, hopefully until they crumble. This will provide invaluable long-term feedback for both manufacturers and consumers.

First published in issue 190, on sale May 2012.

It’s been a winter of discontent for our test products. Rather than spend their days languishing in a dry garage, as your cherished classic hopefully has been, they’ve been thrown to the elements since last October. Perched four metres up, in full exposure to the West Country’s weather patterns, the test pieces have emerged, dirtier certainly but just how compromised? Our last update (Issue 183, November 2011 cover date) concluded that time was telling on some of the cavity wax treatments. All the cavity waxes should have been re-applied by now by a diligent owner before the winter of year two. Ours had held up well, with none tested compromising the steel. Entering year three, product limitations and endurance is beginning to show. The external treatments have seen the test pieces shunted from show to show during 2011 and around our workshop without special handling. How have they stood up to the inevitable knocks and bangs they receive?
The UK’s longest running anti-rust test of its kind uses no gimmicks or accelerants to age the products. This is real-time testing, so expect the same of any of the products here.

Exterior Coatings
Eastwood Rust Encapsulator
Www.Frost.Co.Uk
February 2010 – Good, even coverage. Potentially a great choice for low-key components such as suspension arms.
January 2011 – The coating has stood up pretty well, with no gouges or deep marks. Still looks good.
September 2011 – No visible deterioration. Edges near the bare metal control strip remain solid. Adhesion holding up well. Worthy of your consideration.
April 2012 – Adhesion is still excellent with no lifting near the control strip edge. It’s looking very solid for year three.

POR-15
Www.Frost.Co.Uk
February 2010 – Easy, smooth coverage. Two coats needed. Tough finish once dry.
January 2011 – No oxidisation. Looks okay. Bit brittle, though – it’s starting to lift at the edges near the control section of bare metal.
September 2011 – In spite of being the most breached of our coatings, it has remained stable with only a small amount of lift around the largest of the scratches.
April 2012 – The area of lift reported previously hasn’t deteriorated further, indicating excellent adhesion.

Rust Bullet Six Shooter
Www.Rustbulletuk.Com
February 2010 – Required quick working in order to achieve satisfactory finish. Dried to a tough finish.
January 2011 – Only minor surface rust visible so far. It’ll be interesting to see how this develops with time.
September 2011 – Performing well. The edge near the control strip has retained its adhesion and suffered very little degradation. It’s still as tough as in January 2011.
April 2012 – No further degradation near the control strip edge. The silver colour remains unchanged, too.

Rustbuster Epoxy-Mastic 121
Www.Rust.Co.Uk
February 2010 – Good coverage. Looks like the most impenetrable finish on test – dense and tough.
January 2011 – Surface has rubbed but hasn’t penetrated coating. Thick covering. Still good at edge of control strip.
September 2011 – Not necessarily the prettiest finish when applied by brush, but it’s nonetheless proving very tough. Used on Project MGB suspension.
April 2012 – Still as tough as when it dried in Feb 2010. No loss of adhesion near the control strip from this two-part paint.

Caprotech RX10
Www.Antirust.Co.Uk
February 2010 – Translucent finish, but excellent coverage. Second coat applied. Smooth finish.
January 2011 – No breach at edges. Standing up very well. It hasn’t popped or breached where we over-applied it.
September 2011 – Visually, it looks the worst of our test pieces because its gloss finish has become dirty. However, it remains smooth with good adhesion.
April 2012 – After a wipe clean, the most glossy paint on test is still smooth, shiny and showing excellent adhesion all round.

Bilt-Hamber Electrox
Www.Bilthamber.Com
February 2010 – The heaviest coating of those on test, indicative of its zinc-rich content.
January 2011 – The matt finish is standing up well. No breaches at edges. Slight surface rust at some points.
September 2011 – No further deterioration of surface rust. Adhesion remains excellent and edges near control strip remain solid.
April 2012 – No deterioration visible. Control strip edge remains solid and sharp. Matt finish looks fine. The primer for steel not due a top coat for some time?

Rust Seal
Www.Therustshop.Com
February 2010 – Two coats applied. Smooth finish thickened up after the second coat. Shiny and tough once dry.
January 2011 – Still looking very tough. Has been dinged but standing up well. Nice gloss finish.
September 2011 – Has changed in colour from silver to a faint silvery green. That said, there are no further signs of breaching or loss of adhesion, even near previous liftings.
April 2012 – No further changes to its colour. It now looks the grubbiest on test but it’s as solid as ever.

The Cavity Waxes Update Will Be Posted In A Separate Posting Shortly.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, October 31st, 2012 at 5:04 pm and is filed under Products. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a comment, or trackback from your own site.

Tags: anti rust update, Bilt Hamber, Caprotech RX10, Eastwood Rust Encapsulator, Electrox, hot, long term, POR-15, Rust Bullet, Rust Seal, Rustbuster Epoxy-Mastic 121, year 3
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)
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sansouci
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Re: RUST!

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Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)
brtele
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Location: Kansas City, MO

Re: RUST!

Post by brtele »

I purchased Waxoyl from Rovers North this past October. It's an aerosol and I used (4) cans on the underbody of my 6 concentrating in the wheel wells and surrounding areas that are prone to rust. I drove the car daily this winter (in KC) and the Waxoyl held up well. There were a few waxoyl spots that became "thin", but that was due to misapplication on my part. I was very diligent to wash the car/underbody weekly and right after snow would stop. I also wipe off the wheel wells every time they're wet when I pull into the garage.

I'm satisfied with the Waxoyl product I used this winter, but would like to see how it works over a couple of winters. I'm planning on re-applying every October. Also, I started with no rust on a Cali car.

Brandon
'83 633, 5 speed manual, daily driver
'66 Ford Mustang, 302, Auto
'89 Ford Bronco, 5.0EFI, Auto
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