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Starting with some new rims....

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Bhart
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Starting with some new rims....

Post by Bhart » Thu May 09, 2019 11:34 pm

It's time. Time to search for some wheels to update the original TRX rims with the not so old set of TRX tires (20 years). I have chosen to chase down a set of 17" Dare Motorsport RS wheels in silver - http://daremotorsport.com/wheels.html - the closest thing I can find to mimic the look of a BBS.

I'll need to be importing these from the UK since there does not seem to be any support for North America, but the pricing is reasonable. I do need to be certain to get the sizing, back-spacing, spacers (where required) and hubs correct So I'm looking for assistance in getting a staggered setup. I've added a pic of Dave Crotty's set on his late version E24 and since he told me what make they were.

I need to know which of these three options the supplier has will work on my 1987 M6 (stock height springs, rear has standard shocks);
- "The dare DR-RS is available in 17 inch in a 7.5 et30 , 8.5 et20 and 10.00 et15"

Any help would be appreciated.

As would any suggestions on tire size. I would want to stay with similar diameters F & R but what widths would be reasonable.
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Dave Crotty's E24 on Dare RS wheels.jpg
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1987 M6

past Bimmers;
1970 2800CS
1988 325is
1985 325E

olympia57
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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by olympia57 » Fri May 10, 2019 3:02 am

I think Kos on here had or has a set on his car , maybe contact him to confirm and seek advice.
1981 635 series 1

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Soperman
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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by Soperman » Fri May 10, 2019 7:53 am

Kos has a collection of high quality, period, hard-to-find rims. On his car currently are a set of ACT split rims which are a similar looking alternative to BBS RS. I can pretty much guarantee that he has never owned a set of Dares.

I found myself in a very similar position to you, Bhart, a few years back and looked long and hard at Dares.

In the end, I went down a different route, but would guess is that a whilst a 7.5" rim is a decent original-looking width, an ET of 30 would bring the wheel far too much inwards, giving a narrow track appearance.

I have seen 10" rims fitted to the rear of E24s, and they look very wide and aggressive. The Dare's ET of 15 is almost identical to the OEM rims, but I just wonder if this combination of width and offset will push the wheel too far? Then again, I guess you do have M6 wheel-arch extensions to accommodate.

The he 8.5" ET20 option, (with perhaps cheeky front 5mm - and rear 10mm spacers to give them a little push outwards) strikes me as the best option here.

Alternatively, assuming you like Dave Crotty's car, can you not just copy his set up?
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Bhart
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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by Bhart » Fri May 10, 2019 3:45 pm

I have PM'd Kos - see what he says.

I did ask D. Crotty for specifics but he said he'd just ordered them at Demon Tweeks and had them installed.... no further details. Not sure if he's on this forum....?

I'd like to stay away from having to use too much correction using spacers since I want this to be a practical upgrade. I'm wanting to stay with that specific look and am hoping to find something that I can safely do many miles on. Used rims can be an issue and there are unscrupulous sellers out there.
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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by olympia57 » Fri May 10, 2019 4:58 pm

I think RC090's are your answer .
1981 635 series 1

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Bhart
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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by Bhart » Fri May 10, 2019 6:06 pm

RC90's are two piece, correct? Those will need o-ring seals to be changed or are they just silicone sealed?
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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by Soperman » Fri May 10, 2019 6:50 pm

They’re certainly 2 piece, and they’re silicone sealed.

Because they’re designed to fit an E39 5 series, you’ll need to add a simple and cheap spigot ring to alter the hub diameter ever so slightly in order for them to fit snugly.

Countless E24 owners have chosen this path.
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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by olympia57 » Fri May 10, 2019 6:58 pm

RC 0 90's.
Two piece, no seals /gaskets required, 8x17 et20.

I rebuilt a set for my car you can see the construction at the end of my thread.
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=24813&start=25
1981 635 series 1

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Bhart
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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by Bhart » Fri May 10, 2019 8:20 pm

I have found a set in California so with exchange and shipping they should be close to the same cost as new set of 'tribute' wheels. Hub centric 10mm spacers and a new set of center caps (#36131181068 - still available) should finish it all off.

As Don's impressive posting shows, there will be elbow grease required to get the final look just so - well done Don.

Good thing my TRX tires (tyres) are only 18 years old, I may be driving on them for part of the summer.
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1970 2800CS
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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by olympia57 » Fri May 10, 2019 10:42 pm

A good , as said , well tried solution . The RC090's are much nicer than any copy and are strong wheels .
No need for any spacers just simple spigot rings for 74.1 to 72.5.
If you do rebuild them you will probably replace the mild steel bolts . The BBS oe bolts are very expensive and have sharp edged heads making cleaning a chore .
I opted for M6 Stainless Steel socket button dome head bolts with nyloc nuts . These are actually lighter than the OE bolts and have greater tensile strength.
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They are much much better when cleaning the wheel and dont shred the sponge and are way cheaper.Look better too IMO .
Then again you may wish original .
Whatever you do good luck and let us know how you get on.
Don
1981 635 series 1

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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by bpoliakoff » Sat May 11, 2019 3:26 am

Wokke in Germany, is the go to guy for wheels and parts. Many of us on bimmerforums have dealt with him ovrer the years. He is a truly honest guy and his products are as good as can be found A new set of correct BBS hardware will run you about $225 from him in chrome or gold plating. He also has some of the nicest restored wheels you will find. Not to insult Don, but while the bolts above may look good, they are not a correct fitment as the originals are splined and meant to fit fit more than snug into their hole to prevent the possibility of them being able to spin.

I haven't haven't had contact with him in a long while but here is the info I used when I did. It will make sense for you to contact him. His name is Wolf.

If you do decide to do your own restoration, the correct torque for the wheel bolts is 19-20#s

[email protected]
81 Euro 635 M90 with motronic. Currently under a complete nut and bolt restoration. Pictures at
flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos.

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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by olympia57 » Sat May 11, 2019 10:33 am

No insult Bert .
It's a very subjective issue really .
I looked ( too :roll: ) long and hard into the tensile and ductile comparisons between the two materials and the SS was better ,albeit only marginally , but each weighed 0.8 gram less . Coupled with the fact that I live on the coast,and therefore a saline atmosphere, steered me away from oe steel bolts .
As I said ,the originals are sharp and difficult to maintain and clean if getting covered in brake dust and road dirt , comparitively expensive and although the dome heads shanks are not splined, 34 bolts with lock washers and thread lock tightened to 20 ft/lbs won't spin in situ.
The socket dome heads can be polished to match the wheel ,are significantly easier to clean and repolish and , I feel , look better .
I randomly check the torque on the bolts , like you should with the oe splined bolts too, and after 9 months none have loosened , the wheels have been balanced twice with absolutely no problem.
The splined aspect is interesting in as much that the snug ,or interference ,fit often mentioned is only on the spline of the barrel ,not the centre . Indeed the original bolts/holes had at least 1mm clearance on my wheels centres when dismantled.
I think it's possible that the spline is to prevent the need for a socket on the bolt heads at manufacture (thus possibly damaging the surface coating causing rust ) allowing the final assembly and tightening only on the nut . Bear in mind that these were initially fitted to new ,production line ,daily driven cars .
Yes , they are not " original" and a concours judge would deduct points but if originality is crucial then ...well .
I guess it's all down to personal taste but whatever bolts used they are still one of the nicest wheel for the E24 .
Don
1981 635 series 1

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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by bpoliakoff » Sat May 11, 2019 9:09 pm

Just concerned with the interference fit, not the look, as that is totally a personal choice. I had my bolts chromed which certainly isn't original So I am not one to criticize originality. My point was just to make sure there isn't a wheel separation going down the road and it looks like you addressed that issue in great detail So I am well answered and it appears you are safe!!
81 Euro 635 M90 with motronic. Currently under a complete nut and bolt restoration. Pictures at
flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos.

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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by Bhart » Thu May 16, 2019 4:33 pm

I have chosen to go with a nut/bolt combination from Black Forest Industries.

https://store.blackforestindustries.com ... or2bb.html

I spent some time with our local industrial nut/bolt shop and they felt that any standard combination they could come up with would not be sufficient. I am a bit concerned at the lack of splines but if the BFI bolts are up to the spec they advertised, some additional tread locker on the shank should be sufficient.

Just waiting for the wheels & bolts to arrive at the border so I can import them myself and get the project started.
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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by kos » Wed May 22, 2019 3:16 am

Soperman wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:53 am
Kos has a collection of high quality, period, hard-to-find rims. On his car currently are a set of ACT split rims which are a similar looking alternative to BBS RS. I can pretty much guarantee that he has never owned a set of Dares.
You know me too well! :D

However most fo the rims have gone, a lot of stuff has gone to people who pestered me and to fund a property project. (i do have buy back options though!)

ont he subject of the replica rims, im not a fan of them. The look good form 20ft but get up close and personal you know they're replicas and e24's deserve better. Also, they are made from a low quality cast, they're soft and damage easily. once they suffer from he dreaded lacquer lift they are tedious to refurbish due to the fake bolts

i would always direct someone to style 5's which can be bought for sensible money. Genuine RS's are stupid money. Alpinas are still faint sensibly prices (8.5/9.5 x 17 sets go for £1500 in pristine condition) but Alpina rims on an M car.... sensitive subject. hey do look great though

Style 32's from an e38 or e39 also look great

there is also an 16" open lug Alpin replica, they are really good copy complete with 20 spokes (unlike most Alpina reps)

http://www.alfagiuliashop.eu
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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by Rondel Fan » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:51 am

I have a near new set of Coupe King reps which are very high quality 16 x7s and 16x8s with tires Listed in parts for sale.
http://www.coupeking.com/shop/product/c ... ed-alloys/

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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by Bhart » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:24 pm

My drove to the USA this morning, picked up my used BBS 090s and then drove back home - 620 KM, 100 liters of fuel and only one stop.

They are not quite as bad as olympia57's but close. Well packed though - double boxed. I will start with a good power wash and see how the paint on the web really is. The barrels will need a plan to remove the old finish, paint the backs and polish the outer rim. Also got a box of new chrome bolts & nuts from Black Forest Industries - with no splines, a dab of Locktite will be used. Any idea what the printed code means?

Not sure when I'll find time to get to these because I've currently got the intakes off, changing all the hidden hoses under the hardware and have PSP & A/C compressor away at Jay Stratton's for a rebuild too. I want all of this sorted before the end of summer.... summer 2019.
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1987 M6

past Bimmers;
1970 2800CS
1988 325is
1985 325E

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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by Coupe633 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:04 pm

The time has come for my 1984 633CSi to get new shoes and since they don't make TRX tires anymore to fit it will need new socks too. I have found a practically new set of BMW RS740 Rims with nearly brand new Michelin 235/45 ZR19 tires. I just installed them and they look great but will take me a while to get used to them. It does seem though that since they are slightly wider than the Michelin TRX tires there is a very close clearance with the front strut. It does not seem to touch but I am afraid to take it out on the road with that being so close. I suspect that I will need spacers which is what drew me to this thread. I believe these wheels came off of an e39 but lines up with the hub just fine. Any suggestions or concerns would be very welcome and I will get some photos posted shortly. Should I also add spacer in the rear just because? There is very little clearance with the edge of the tire and the strut but I can slide a sheet of paper between them (unlike with the Great Pyramid). I think I will reinstall one of the original rim and tire to see how much clearance there should be. Any suggestions how far of a spacer I will need as well as brand. It seems that 12mm should be fine as I am not interested in having the tires bulging out from the fenders.

David

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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by hornhospital » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:07 am

Welcome to this insanity....uh, I mean wonderful hobby.

Wow, and I thought my 18" wheels/tires on an E24 were large! :shock:

If those are real E39 wheels you WILL need hubcentric 74.1 to 72.6 rings. If they fit as-is they aren't E39 wheels. (Never have understood why BMW put that odd hub size on one model series and no other :-k )

And if you're interested in spending a big bag full of cash Coker Tire still makes all the Metric tire sizes, in particular the 390 and 415mm diameter. www.Coker.com Make sure you're sitting down when you look up the prices. :shock: #-o
Ken Kanne
'84 633CSi "Sylvia"; '85 635CSi "Katja";'85 325e "Hazel Ann";'87 325is "Odette"; '93 325is "Elvira"; '95 M3 "Ashlyn"; '95 318is "Bebe"

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Re: Starting with some new rims....

Post by Coupe633 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:38 am

Hornhospital I had considered the Michelin TRX Coker tires and since my tires were 20 years old and still had at least 40% tread left on them I would be better off taking the dive like everyone else does and replace the rims. I did find a good set of rims for a really good price that had wheels already so even though I didn't expect to have to spend the money it made sense going forward considering the age of my tires and the cost of the Cokers. I may be incorrect about these rims coming from an e39 they are about the same size but a little wider than the TRX tires.

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