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Rondell 58 wheel fitment and tires

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Klaus
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Rondell 58 wheel fitment and tires

Post by Klaus » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:01 pm

Haven't posted in a while, still debugging after a conversion to a 5-speed out of an M3.
Anyway, after looking for quit a few years I finally ended up snagging a usable set of Rondell 58's in usable, original condition. Sizes are 17x8.5 ET13 and 17x10 ET15. They need a good cleaning and while the lips have been re-polished at least once, they will need some more detail work.
So the question is, what are the fit issues I have to expect on an E12 based chassis? Also, what tire combination would work best?
Just looking at some posts it looks like 235/45R17 and 255/40R17 are the go to sizes, but I am afraid that the rear will look stretched with a 255/40R17 tire. 265's appear uncommon as a combination, but does 275/40R17 pose any clearance issues? Suspension is mildly lowered, about 3/4" to 1".
I am looking at Sumitomo HTR Z III MaxPerformance tires, not because I am cheap, but because I don't won't to cut an expensive set of tires while debugging the suspension. Any comments on those?
Thanks in advance, Klaus
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Front Wheel 17x8.5 ET13
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Rear Wheel 17x10 ET15
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Post by olympia57 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:13 pm

When I bought my E12 based car it had 8x17 et20 wheels fitted with 225/45 tyres . There was no rubbing of the strut, although it was very close , but the tyres did catch on the lower rear of the wheel arch when on less than full lock. The front wings on the early car differ from the E28 based cars.
Looking at your figures then at et13 you're 7mm to the better of a 8inch et20 wheel but taking your wider size into account (8.5) your actually back to the same position by dividing the extra 12mm by 2 you move the wheel closer to the strut again by 6mm . There is only a few mm clearance on 225 tyres so fitting larger 235 items to a lowered car ,which are larger in diameter and width , will possibly / probably incur rubbing on the strut and lower arch lip .
I can't say this with 100% confidence , and I hope I'm wrong as they a very nice wheel, but perhaps a member who has actually fitted them on an early car can help further .

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Post by johnny turbo » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:05 am

Don't run me out of town for saying it, but I think the stanceworks board might be very helpful for this, there's surely someone who has tried to fit similar wheels and knows about what you'll run into.

Edit: found this link there, might be very useful to get a general idea of what to try next: http://www.willtheyfit.com
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Post by Klaus » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:41 am

Stanceworks is definitely a possibility, but the guys over there are playing with some really extreme stuff. Anyway, I did some mock-ups and it does not look good for 275's in the rear, also would be way too wide of a tire for decent ride quality and would probably introduce a severe amount of tram lining.
265's might be possible for the rear, but the selection is limited to just a few choices for the combination, I actually just found Brickstone to offer the sizes in matching compound.
235/45R17 and 255/40R17 appears to be the logical choice, and while the rear might look a little bit stretched, it might be the winning combination, especially with the adjustable rear sway bar installed to dial out some understeer. I also might go to some taller bump stops...

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Klaus
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Post by Klaus » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:00 am

I just wanted to update this after I found a car running the identical wheels, only in 18" instead of my 17". Offset and width are the same, just diameter is different.
Anyway, looks like 255/35 R18 in front and 285/35 R18 in rear fit on stock height suspension.
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Post by Brucey » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:05 am

I think it is worth pointing out that the size on the tyre and the size of the tyre are two different things. Another manufacturer's 285 may not fit anything like so well as that on a 10" rim.

BTW the front fouling on the early E24 with the E12 suspension is in part because of the position of the virtual axis of rotation of the upright when the steering is moved.

The later E28-esque arrangement has a double-knuckle arrangement that moves the virtual axis outwards, and one side-effect of this is that when the steering is moved, there appears to be more clearance at the back of the wheelarch for the tyres. The same 8" rims with ET15 offset cleared easily on a later car but the tyre rubbed like crazy on the back of the wheelarch when fitted to an earlier one.

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Post by stokjeep » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:43 pm

Here are some photos of my 88 with 225 on Rondel 58 8.5's .... and then with 235's on 8.5 in front and 255's on 10's in rear ... YMMV with other brands of tires ..

Cannot state E12 clearance but this is how the tires look by width on rim ..

The way I bought it - 225's on 8.5 - tires were mixed - mild stretch on 8.5 rim

The way it is NOW - 235's on 8.5 front - Conti DWS rubber - no stretch - perfect

and 255's on 10 rear - Conti DWS rubber - mild stretch - would prefer 275
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Post by Klaus » Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:32 pm

Brucey, points well taken, I definitely expect some fitment issues on the E12 suspension, just trying to get a base line of what ultimately might fit and how it looks like. Casual measurement reveals that I might need a 5mm spacer on the front, but no interference issues on the back.
Tire sizing between different manufactures has always been an issue, it appears like the Sumitomo's I have been looking at run more on the smaller size dimension wise and the Continental's shown on stokjeep's 6er fall more in the medium size category. I could not find reliable real measurements on Michelin, Goodyear and Dunlop.

stokjeep, thanks for posting the pictures, I was afraid that the 255's would look stretched on the rear 10" wheels, I might just go to 275's right away for mock-up.

Klaus

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Post by tschultz » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:03 pm

See this car which is an early model with the Rondell 58's:

viewtopic.php?p=159631&sid=b58f7dfb84e0 ... 471abed60b

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Brucey
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Post by Brucey » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:58 pm

Klaus wrote:....Casual measurement reveals that I might need a 5mm spacer on the front...
if you space the wheel outwards any, this is liable to make any on-lock rubbing in the back of the wheelarch worse, not better, on a S1 car (E12 style front suspension).

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Post by GazM3 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:28 pm

I currently run 225/45/17 on front and 245/40/17 on rear. I've had to run a spacer to make them work. U can fit a 275/40 on the 10" rim at the rear for the square tyre look but it may be a little close to the inside with et15. The only other issue may be more understeer so u want as much front tyre as possible and some chassis alteration (more front -ve camber) or more rear sway bar to dial it out.

Also one big problem in the tyre world is not all 275 wide tyres are tey same width. Some website like the tirerack will have data on the section width. 255 might be safer maybe select a wide 255 or a skinny 275 may be very close in width.
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Re: Rondell 58 wheel fitment and tires

Post by Klaus » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:24 am

Finally getting around to an update. I ended up with 225/45R17 Sumitomo's in the front, clearance to the early strut housings is about 10 mm, absolutely no rubbing lock to lock. 235/45R17 would have definitely required a spacer and probably would have produced some rubbing issues. Tire looks nice and square on the 8.5" wheel, so I would call this a success.
Rear is a different story. I mocked up 275/40R17's on the rear suspension and wasn't sure if everything would clear without some modifications. So I chickened out and ordered 255/40R17 Sumitomos, no interference with any sheet metal what so ever. Unfortunately the tire looks stretched on the 10" wheel and the roll diameter is a little bit too small. I didn't notice any significant change toward understeer from the previous, square setup. Rear sway bar is still in the center adjustment position.
I think the best upgrade was the change from red,adjustable Koni suspension to Bilstein Sport, using ST Springs with the rear mounting position in the center. The Koni's didn't last very long and were always too soft, even in the hardest position. The Bilstein Sports definitely are making the handling much more enjoyable, well worth the wait finding them for the E12 based chassis.
I am going to try 275/40R17 next, after replacing the rear trailing arm bushings and installing another subframe, modified with adjusters for alignment.

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Re: Rondell 58 wheel fitment and tires

Post by sansouci » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:05 pm

Klaus,
What is "tram lining?"
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Klaus
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Re: Rondell 58 wheel fitment and tires

Post by Klaus » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:42 pm

Ken,

Stolen from Wikipedia:

"Tramlining is the tendency of a vehicle's wheels to follow the contours in the surface upon which it runs. The term comes from the tendency of a car's wheels to follow the normally recessed rails of street trams, without driver input in the same way that the train does. The same effect is sometimes called Nibbling."

Basically, means following the indentation in asphalt paved roads created by vehicle traffic, not that common in concrete paved roads.

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Re: Rondell 58 wheel fitment and tires

Post by evodrichie » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:09 am

225 35 17 up front
255 40 17 in back
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Re: Rondell 58 wheel fitment and tires

Post by dalkaveli » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:15 am

I guess my status has been reset. Nonetheless, I'm back after resurrecting my '83 633csi from cold storage. I'm looking to get some rondell 58's but the two I have seen turned out to not be authentic. Now what I am not sure of is if originals have any discernible markings or way for me to look and verify they are real ones (without OG center caps)? I have gone with a knock off wheel in the past and regretted it.

Dalk

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