Speakers 4x6 fronts

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baders
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Speakers 4x6 fronts

Post by baders »

Following on from the thread in Saloon, I'm looking into upgrading my front speakers. The existing 50w max Coustic fronts are easily being over-driven by my new Pioneer head unit. I am checking out the Infinity Kappa 462.11 plate speakers which will be a vast improvement at 60w RMS. I just have to make sure they fit.

Have pulled out and measured the Coustic speakers and depth will not be a problem. Both speakers are 47mm mounting depth. Measuring the diagram here http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aauj_pr ... _OM_EN.pdf and doing a ratio calculation the problem may be the width of the magnet and greater overall depth of the 462.11s. The magnet is 10mm wider overall, and overall depth is 10mm greater due to the higher tweeter.

I measured the hole in the 6 and it is 12mm wider than the Coustic magnet, so it's going to be a close run thing with the 10mm wider 462.11. The bonnet release will need to be bent slightly to clear and a 10mm spacer required. This is not a show stopper however.

So, I've just pulled the trigger on a pair of Infinity Kappa 462.11. Hopefully I can make it work [-o<
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Post by baders »

Mmmmmkay. BMW South Atlanta want what equates to $70.00AUD for 2 spacers. I think I'll make my own :shock:
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Ralph in Socal
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Post by Ralph in Socal »

I'll let you know when I find some here Paul. Should be cheap to mail USPS First Class. PBeige color correct?


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baders
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Post by baders »

Ralph in Socal wrote:I'll let you know when I find some here Paul. Should be cheap to mail USPS First Class. PBeige color correct?


Ralph
Hey thanks for that Ralph ! Don't go out of your way too much though as I will attempt to manufacture the spacers first. I just picked up some 9mm MDF and pearl beige touch up paint for the princely sum of $10.00 :mrgreen:
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Post by Brucey »

Kappas like these?

Image

I can see a problem; the magnet is a long way off-centre whereas the hole in the bodywork/carpet is not. Maybe your plan allows for this?

My own Infinity 6x4s are model ref 6402CF (reference series) and these (along with 6412CF, 6402CFX, etc) have a centrally mounted magnet and a coaxial tweeter. These speakers will also benefit from a backing plate in some cases (as per the light coloured part pictured here; http://support.infinitysystems.com/car/ ... Region=USA

As I mentioned in the other thread my Infinity speakers languish unfitted partly because they will be such a pig to fit. As well as a magnet clash at the back the front needs a grille with an internal depth of about 10mm else it will foul the speaker parts.

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Post by Brucey »

in addition I note that other Infinity 6x4s (eg 6432 models) often have an enormous chassis as well as a large magnet; again this is liable to clash with the bodywork on a 6er.

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Post by baders »

Thanks Brucey. It will be a close run thing for sure. Then again, my nibbler tool may have to come out :D
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Post by baders »

I'll put this query in here.

I'm not happy with the performance of my 12" Alpine sub-woofer which I have installed in a sealed box in the trunk. It is OK at rest but when road noise is introduced with movement, it is very muffled and almost not noticeable.

Does anyone have any experiences with what subwoofers will fit in the rear seat kick panel. I've seen Dons post, and will do a search, but some experiences would be helpful.
Last edited by baders on Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
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Post by baders »

OK after some research I think I will have problems installing even 8" shallow mount subs in the kick panel. Depth would be OK but 8" circular sub cut outs are too large.
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Post by Brucey »

6x8s are a tight fit in the kick panel; I have not tried 8" ones but I can well imagine that they don't fit at all easily.

My plan for a sub (which I've been mulling over for some years) is to install a 10" sub through the bulkhead, behind the armrest. The drive unit can be mostly within the armrest housing, with a strong grille facing into the boot (trunk). [NB It doesn't matter which way round the sub actually faces, provided the thing is wired up right.]

I've had a Sony X-plod sub lined up for this job for some time, but once I had 6x8s in the kick panel, I no longer felt such an urge to fit the sub.

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Post by olympia57 »

I'm afraid you won't get 8 " subs fitted to the kick panels .
Although the Infinity's are 6 x 9 the covers are probably 7 inches deep and JUST fit between the seat base and the floor , in fact the carpet had to be forced between the cover and the floor .
I never measured the depth of them but as said the floor pan on the series one car is different side to side and the magnet touched it on the RHS hence my need for an MDF spacer.
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Post by mikeB7 »

yes, 6x9s fit in the rear seat kick panels nicely, and sound great.
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Post by baders »

That gels with the research and measuring I have done Don. I don't think it is possible without doing something radical, which I don't want to do. Probably less radical would be to cut a series of holes in the rear bulkhead to free up air movement from my current 12" Alpine in the trunk. Still like to avoid that though.

Brucey, I can't see how a 10" would fit behind the armrest ? No doubt you have this figured though.
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Post by GazM3 »

Yes I have a 12 sub in the trunk and you have to drive that sub pretty hard to hear it in the cabin when on the move. And it kills the trunk space. I may look into a pair if 6x9 in the back seat bulkhead still with the polk 4x6 connected. Unless I can fit a pair if shallow mount 8" subs under the rear seats. It's a good place to mount weight also in the wheelbase and nice and low.

Oh and for the op I have a pair of poly audio 4x6 flat panel speakers fit the front kick panel without modification. The only issue is the OEM cover doesn't fit and you have to be careful with the good release lever.
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Post by Brucey »

baders wrote:...Brucey, I can't see how a 10" would fit behind the armrest ? No doubt you have this figured though.
well I have measured up and there is affair amount of space behind the 'cowl' behind the armrest, (BTW this is only evident once the assembly is removed). IIRC (from memory) with the Sony 10" sub it is something like 5" deep (total) and ~4" of that goes in the cowl leaving about 1" in the boot (trunk). That the flange on the sub is a bit bigger than the width of the cowl is no problem, its in the boot anyway, only the width of the sub's frame has to fit inside the width of the cowl.

To fit one this way, there will have to be a ~9" hole through the bulkhead, and a spacer of some kind behind the drive unit flange . There will be no visible sign of the sub from within the cabin, because the cowl will be stock.

Note that if you go down this route the sub will only definitely port adequately into the cabin when the armrest is down. It will do this mostly through the gap below the armrest (the cross section is plenty large enough for a port I think). If you run the sub hard with the armrest up, it'll be muffled somewhat, but it might still sound OK, better than a sub entirely within the boot anyway....

Additionally in my car (because of the 6x9s in the kickpanel) I'm worried about the sub 'fighting' the 6x9s when the armrest is up; the sub will essentially be sharing the same partially sealed enclosure as the 6x9s.

I daresay there are other drive units that might fit more easily; I reckon the 10" Xplod will be overkill (for what I want).

The Xplod 6x9s sound OK to me, so I've stuck with them. They also happen to have bright red drive units that kind of go with my red car. The Xplod sub is also red; not that I usually give a monkey's about such things but it might look kind of cool from inside the boot too; this will be the 'front' of the drive unit.

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Post by baders »

Thanks Brucey. I've finally got it in my head a picture of what you are wanting to do. The sub will be facing rearward into the boot and mounted centrally on a spacer with magnet in behind the arm rest area. This sounds like a great idea and much better than a sealed box in the boot. Perhaps doing it this way the sound deadening layer could also be put back in (I had removed it due to the sealed sub not really effective).

I'm at work again now but on my next break I am going to investigate this. I wonder if I could fit my existing 12" Alpine sub in that fashion, hmmmmmm :D
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
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Post by baders »

Well,I've finished this little project this weekend. Have installed the Infinity Kappa 4x6" plate speakers and installed my Alpine 12" sub in the rear bulkhead. This has seen a massive improvement in sound quality. Of course, now the weak link is the 30w RMS Pioneer rear 6x9" speakers. I think I'll lash out for some Infinity 6x9." :mrgreen:

First the Kappa 4x6".

Ugghhh, start at the bottom photo for sequence.
Attachments
These are quality units !
These are quality units !
infinity_kappa01.jpg (231.29 KiB) Viewed 13678 times
The location.
The location.
infinity_kappa03.jpg (263.75 KiB) Viewed 13678 times
Old Coustics on left. Had some doubts at this stage !
Old Coustics on left. Had some doubts at this stage !
infinity_kappa02.jpg (191.26 KiB) Viewed 13678 times
Instead of installing spacers, decided to try something different. Purists look away, but I cut a small hole in the covers for the tweeters.
Instead of installing spacers, decided to try something different. Purists look away, but I cut a small hole in the covers for the tweeters.
infinity_kappa04.jpg (231.02 KiB) Viewed 13678 times
Last edited by baders on Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
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Post by baders »

Continued. You need to start at bottom photo up for sequence.
Attachments
Complete. Tight but adequate clearance. Hood release clears no problem. Used longer screws to ease installation.
Complete. Tight but adequate clearance. Hood release clears no problem. Used longer screws to ease installation.
infinity_kappa05.jpg (266.77 KiB) Viewed 13677 times
Stripped out rear seats and centre arm rest. Bit of jiggery pokery to remove the centre and seat belt latches.
Stripped out rear seats and centre arm rest. Bit of jiggery pokery to remove the centre and seat belt latches.
sub01.jpg (229.31 KiB) Viewed 13677 times
Screwed up the courage, template made :)
Screwed up the courage, template made :)
sub02.jpg (179.26 KiB) Viewed 13677 times
Courage still high, jigsaw into action.
Courage still high, jigsaw into action.
sub03.jpg (245.26 KiB) Viewed 13677 times
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
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Post by baders »

Continued.
Attachments
Installed ! Used 6mm stainless bolts and had to drill new holes in sub to match up with the lands.
Installed ! Used 6mm stainless bolts and had to drill new holes in sub to match up with the lands.
sub04.jpg (233.73 KiB) Viewed 13675 times
Had to cut relief for the edges of the centre arm rest due to the extreme vibration rattles caused by the sub in action.
Had to cut relief for the edges of the centre arm rest due to the extreme vibration rattles caused by the sub in action.
sub07.jpg (233.21 KiB) Viewed 13675 times
Installed ! A vast improvement in bass clarity and response.
Installed ! A vast improvement in bass clarity and response.
sub05.jpg (198.15 KiB) Viewed 13675 times
One for Brucey. There is a max of 4 inches space to the bulkhead behind the arm rest. This is why I had to point the sub into the cabin, magnet into boot. Simply no way it would fit other way. I think you will have problems even with a 10&amp;quot; sub pointi
One for Brucey. There is a max of 4 inches space to the bulkhead behind the arm rest. This is why I had to point the sub into the cabin, magnet into boot. Simply no way it would fit other way. I think you will have problems even with a 10&quot; sub pointi
sub06.jpg (202.65 KiB) Viewed 13675 times
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
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Post by Mark Shutt »

did you use an MDF baffle for the sub? it really needs one to make it solid and seal off the front to rear waves.. did you try the 4x6's without cutting the grills up 1st? may have not been necessary but you never know!

I'm just about to try some different 4x6's in mine, they are Altec Lancing ALS46's, they are quite well made!

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Post by baders »

No baffle Mark. By the end result, none needed. Fitting the original speaker cover over the Kappa 4x6s was always going to be a problem. I had originally thought to make up a spacer but found that this was not necessary with cutting the small hole for the tweeter.
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Post by Mark Shutt »

the sub looks a clean install but mounting on MDF (possibly from the rear?) and also sealing those 4 pressing depressions off will drastically improve low end response.

I've been thinking what to do for subwoofery in mine, a single 12 is what I'm also planning, got a few to choose from all old school ones! I was thinking of making half a dozen or so smaller holes at 40mm diameter just because it won't looks as drastic more than anything!!
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Post by baders »

I hear you, and I thought long and hard about cutting that 10" hole. At the end of the day, it's not a car that I will be looking to sell and it's not an M635 (would not have done this if it was).

Today, I just sat in the back seat for an hour playing some Tame Impala (huge fan). My kids thought I had lost my marbles but music is best when it is felt in the bones :mrgreen:
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Post by Mark Shutt »

that's what it's all about, music! well my Altec's didn't fit as they were slightly too big even though 4x6's so back to drawing board! at least it has Kenwood 2ways in but they are a bit basic for my needs! the rears don't sound too bad so I'm wondering if they have been upgraded too :-k
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Post by Brucey »

good work! Thanks for the pics; as I mentioned previously my scheme is to make a spacer that goes inside the boot. This will

a) seal the sub flange properly and
b) spaces the front of the sub into the boot so that the magnet clears the armrest trim.

BTW if you ever carry pointy objects in the boot you ought to fret about them not damaging the subs inner workings. A decent grille is part of my plan too. If it were to fit a sub the other way round I'd never get my bike in the boot.

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