M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

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MSGGrunt
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M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by MSGGrunt »

I have a dilemma... I own a very clean 1987 M6 that may never be a Pebble Beach concourse car or bring $90,000 at an auction but, it is nice enough to preserve in as original condition as possible, the only thing not OEM on the car are the rims, a front strut brace and green instead of red handle screwdrivers, including still having and maintaining the original SLS, original radio (I'm not an audiophile), original first aid kit, correct blue cased warning triangle, etc... The issue is with the leather dash that came in the 1987 cars and subsequently realized to be a bad idea by BMW and changed to a more conventional dash the next year.

My questions and advice sought:

#1. If the original leather dash in my car had been replaced by BMW years ago, say in the late 1980's when they realized there was a problem with them, what would it have been replaced with? Vinyl? And with my dash originally being dark brown leather and the door tops being two-tone dark brown and Natur (200) would they have replaced the door tops and rear passenger tops along with the dash so everything matched?

#2. Were the replacement dashes just the standard black vinyl? What about the M6 and L6 cars that came with brown/grey and any other color leather dashes?

#3. On the 1987 M6 cars were there two dash variations, one with coin storage and one without? I personally prefer the look of the coin storage recesses but, I realize that keeping them will add complexity to any restoration other than maybe the vacuum formed method by Just Dashes.

#4. Will it make a difference value wise if I had the dash restored and covered (vacuum formed method) by just dashes in a matching brown color vinyl? I assume the most accurate and "concourse" dash would be the original leather or one recovered in leather to replicate what originally came in the car?

#5. Would it be an option to find a shop that "could" recover it in leather but instead cover it in a more durable vinyl that looks the part of leather? With this method am I wrong to think that this would be a more durable option/material than real leather and still maintain the factory seams where the leather pieces were sewn together? Or would it look tacky?

#6. Has anyone had a dash recovered by Just Dashes lately? Satisfaction? Cost?

#7. Has anyone found a shop that has the detail/craftsman that can correctly recover a dash in leather? Cost? I have had varying degrees of success finding an upholstery shop in my area (Massachusetts) that can even be bothered with restoration type projects or they want to charge $2000 just to recover the upright portion of an E30 back seat. I know something like having a dash recovered in leather is more likely a few thousand dollar tab vs a few hundred but, I don't want to get taken advantage of either. I know location sometimes dictates price and quality of work and would be willing to ship the dash anywhere if it means getting quality work and not getting raped on the cost.
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dwcains
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by dwcains »

#3 - All the OEM dashes had the "coin tray", but some from Just Dashes didn't.

#6 - My car has a Just Dashes dash from several years ago. No coin tray, but otherwise it looks completely OEM. Apparently there was a group buy on these several years ago and the cost was below $1500, but now it's over $2K from what I've heard. A few weeks ago, I got into a somewhat heated discussion on mye28.com when I commented on how nice my dash looked, and how happy I was with it. The other guy said their products were junk because they were painted with a "rattle can" after being molded, supposedly because the bare vinyl is too shiny. All I can say is that mine does look great, I can't tell it from OEM (except for the missing coin tray), and it's holding up well here in the heat and sun of south Florida. I use Aerospace 303 a few times a year on all the interior plastics.

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MSGGrunt
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by MSGGrunt »

That does look nice.

I thought all of them came with the coin tray but, wasn't sure. What I don't want is to see an outline of an "eliminated" coin tray through leather if I go that route. Maybe this is an installers mistake but, I saw it on a very high end M6 that had the dash recovered in leather at a cost of $5000.00. For that kind of money however they fill in the tray better not be seen through the leather and any padding under it.

If they do have to color/paint a dash I bet it is with something more high tech than a "rattle can". Would this person also complain that with leather restoration the dye is sprayed on as well? I've actually had pretty good luck painting vinyl as long as it is prepped properly and the correct paint is used.
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by MSGGrunt »

Just Dashes YouTube video and at the 4 minute mark it talks about and shows the coloring/painting of the dash and it is done with better than just a rattle can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi0zbqNau-4
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by MSGGrunt »

Called a highly regarded BMW restoration company today and got an estimate to have the shop that does their leather work recover the dash.

$5000.00 if I remove the dash, bring it to them, and reinstall it myself.

$8000.00 if I just bring the car to them and they do the removal and install.

I have no doubts this would be top notch work but, a little out of my price range.

The shop that would do the dash is: http://richmondautoupholsteryvt.com/service/
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by dwcains »

That's some insane pricing. Let's just say, for argument's sake, they charge $100/hr for labor. Would it really take 30 hours to remove/reinstall the dash on an E24? Or, if a piece of hide is $1K, would the labor to stitch it be 40 hours? Honestly, I think the $2300+ from Just Dashes is awfully high, too, and I'm glad the PO paid for mine (much less at the time).

There was a thread on bimmerforums about a company in the UK that would sell a pre-stitched leather skin for the E24 dash, but I don't think anyone ever bought one. They were (may still be on eBay). IIRC, the leather was just a few hundred $.

EDIT: Just found the eBay listing, and in that thread, it was mentioned there is a LHD version available:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACK-LEATHER-D ... 1531396889
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by MSGGrunt »

I agree, just because you work on million dollar concourse cars doesn't necessarily make you any better than a one man shop with a craftsman that takes pride in his/her work and doesn't charge crazy labor costs.

I have seen those leather covers and even for that price it would make a good pattern if I wanted to take it apart and use a brown Napa leather to match the rest of the interior. Not sure how I like the "puckers" I know getting it as nice as the original will not be easy.
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by Caribe Turf »

At the South Florida dealer I worked at we replaced the dash once with a leather dash if it needed a second one it was vinyl
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by slofut »

I'm about ready to pull the trigger on one of those stitched covers also. For the money it looks to be a good pattern as Grunt said. I just got sample swatches from them, the leather seems pretty good, thin as expected for this application but I also asked for a sample in Alcantara. I got one but not sure of the quality or if it's actually Alcantara. I'll post pics tomorrow and see what you guys think.

The other dilemma is though, the old cracked vinyl. If it's not removed you have the cracks, which even if repaired will telegraph through the new covering. And even if the cracks are repaired, then it's only matter of time before new cracks will appear and ruin the job #-o . I think for a good job, the vinyl would have to be removed and the foam properly dressed. Then is the new cover going to bond properly to the foam :-?
Your thoughts?
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by dwcains »

I've got a restored dash (vinyl) from Just Dashes, and one of the things I did to protect it is have the windshield tinted with 3M Crystalline film. I have the 90% film, which is virtually invisible, but it reflects 99% of UV and IR. I plan to get the other glass done, too, with the 50% film, but the cost was prohibitive to do all at once. Total will be almost $800!
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by Alpinacsi »

Back to the catch tray vs no catch tray: the factory leather dashes had this filled in before they covered with leather.

Would still love to see an option less expensive than Just Dashes as you still have shipping cost on top of that.
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by slofut »

dwcains wrote:I've got a restored dash (vinyl) from Just Dashes, and one of the things I did to protect it is have the windshield tinted with 3M Crystalline film. I have the 90% film, which is virtually invisible, but it reflects 99% of UV and IR. I plan to get the other glass done, too, with the 50% film, but the cost was prohibitive to do all at once. Total will be almost $800!
I would love to get that done on my cars! Do you notice much difference in comfort with sun beaming in the front glass? With tinted glass on the sides, you can feel an instant difference when you let the glass up/down in direct sun. But that's darker tint, 50%. Is the effect as much with the clear Crystalline? Pricey I know, can I ask how much it cost you for the windshield?
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by dwcains »

I can put my hand on the dash and fel it's a lot cooler, so that alone is a plus, along with the 99%+ UV/IR blocking I can't actually see. The windshield tint was $350, but that may vary by region, and also by how competitive the local installers want to be. There are only two in y area, so it seemed to be a seller's market.

My 350Z has some sort of generic window tint that's 30% on the sides and 25% on the rear hatch (it was only $180 for the job). When I had it done, the difference was so large that the automatic a/c fan went from full speed almost all the time to maybe 20% almost all the time, so it does its job. It's hard to compare across cars whether the 30% cheap film or the 90% $$$ film works better, but anything put on the entire windshield basically needs to be invisible.

I'm still not sure how dark I want to go on the 635 sides and rear, but 50% is what I'm thinking right now. I need to stop back at the shop to pick up some different scraps and put some little samples on a window to compare.
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by slofut »

Thanks Dean,
That's pricey alright and any of the guys up here would have to order the film as I'm sure they don't stock it, so I'm sure it would command a premium. It would be worth it on a nice daily driver.
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by bpoliakoff »

About 3-4 years ago a group buy for recovering in vinyl was put together. I can't remember the name of the place that did it, but they are in Oregon. I found them to begin with via a google search. The price was less than $800 I think tere had to be 7 guys in.. The work was well done, BUT, they didn't mold the coin tray in and left the dash smooth in that area which did piss a few guys off.

I had mine done by a place in WA state. He charged me $650 and the job is as good as factory if not better. Unfortunately he has disappeared. He was "Dashboards USA". I am beyond please with the job he did.
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by slofut »

bpoliakoff wrote:About 3-4 years ago a group buy for recovering in vinyl was put together. I can't remember the name of the place that did it, but they are in Oregon. I found them to begin with via a google search. The price was less than $800 I think tere had to be 7 guys in.. The work was well done, BUT, they didn't mold the coin tray in and left the dash smooth in that area which did piss a few guys off.

I had mine done by a place in WA state. He charged me $650 and the job is as good as factory if not better. Unfortunately he has disappeared. He was "Dashboards USA". I am beyond please with the job he did.
Bert,
Did the guy in WA strip the original vinyl off your dash before recovering?
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by bpoliakoff »

/quote]Bert,Did the guy in WA strip the original vinyl off your dash before recovering?[/quote]

Yes. Actually I sent him just the bare pan. So it was molded from the underlayment up
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by jcburk »

All been watching this closely because I have an M6 with original leather dash that needs replaced. No coin holder. My understanding was after replacing a bunch of these under warranty, BMW began removing them as they came into the US and replaced them with vinyl. I believe they were standard on the highline and eliminated on the later non-high line model M6. There can't be too many of these around as the number of US high lines was around 700/800 total to begin with.

Just Dashes - I have seen posts of their work, specifically leather M6 dash restorations and from the pictures it looked very good and that was confirmed by the poster. Cost was around $2K if you ship them the dash. I just called them (11/23/16) and the still do this work, price has gone up, $4K plus $100 to $200 to match any non black color leather. Turn around is 12 to 14 weeks. That of course does not include shipping. It's pricey but I have yet to see a credible alternative. I put a lot of weight behind the fact that they have actually done the work. If I can find the post with pictures I will post it.
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by slofut »

bpoliakoff wrote:/quote]. Actually I sent him just the bare pan. So it was molded from the underlayment up
Bert, did you take the hard vinyl off the dash yourself? Did it come off without destroying the foam underneath? Or did it damage the foam and you had to remove both?
I'd be very impressed if they (JD) actually started from a bare backbone and sculpted all new foam to match the original design! Would be different if they had some foam still there to build to for correct dimensions. :-k
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by dwcains »

Did you watch the video linked in post #4? It's not clear if they can/do replace the foam on a bare metal frame, or if they just apply a layer over the remaining foam which has been ground down. The video seems to indicate the latter, which is a bit concerning, but I haven't yet heard of a JD dash cracking through the new material. FWIW, there's a post on Bimmerforums about JD quoting $4K+ to cover an E24 dash in leather.
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Re: M6 Leather Dash Restoration Advice

Post by slofut »

dwcains wrote:Did you watch the video linked in post #4? It's not clear if they can/do replace the foam on a bare metal frame, or if they just apply a layer over the remaining foam which has been ground down. The video seems to indicate the latter, which is a bit concerning, but I haven't yet heard of a JD dash cracking through the new material. FWIW, there's a post on Bimmerforums about JD quoting $4K+ to cover an E24 dash in leather.
Sorry Dean I hadn't watched the vid before, but I just finished it.
I guess what I wanted to know was if you sent them a bare metal frame with no foam on it, and if so did you remove the black vinyl yourself and is it possible without destroying the foam underneath. Obviously it would be a whole 'nother task to recreate the foam dimensions if the factory foam is gone.

I have seen (although now I can't find it) a video where a guy peeled the hard vinyl cover off a dash using a heat gun and left the foam intact. That would allow keeping more original finished proportions, although I'm sure in the case of JD's work, you'd never notice the difference. But I anticipate trying to cover one the hard way and am gathering all the info I can before I get there.
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