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those pesky headlight wash/wipe bits....

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monoi
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Post by monoi » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:04 pm

I had seen the tip about the bracket, so that came off.

I also tried to remove the wiper linkage, but it was "stuck" in place. It will be easier putting it back, as I'll put those in last.

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Post by monoi » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:02 am

Broken another last night, although it broke a bit further down the shaft so it will be easier to weld something on....

How do you remove this long "nut", which is not a nut but a sleeve, if I read the ETK correctly? So its not screwed on? I have used heat, WD40...

That said, I do not even know whether the motors work anyway.

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Post by ron » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:17 am

monoi wrote: How do you remove this long "nut", which is not a nut but a sleeve, if I read the ETK correctly? So its not screwed on? I have used heat, WD40...
It's threaded about 1/2" down from the top (the splined end).

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Post by monoi » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:46 pm

Thank you, I was going the wrong way last night then. Hopefully, 3rd time lucky...

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Post by monoi » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:39 am

Managed to drill through the shaft, but then I broke the tap trying to remove the remnants and that is not coming out. So I will need to find someone handy with a welder to try and get the bit of shaft removed from the other sleeve, and then repair the shaft. As luck would have it, the wiper motor runs perfectly so crossing fingers.

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Post by monoi » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:47 pm

My mechanic did manage to remove the bit of shaft from the nut, and weld that back on so I was able to rebuild the whole system. Needless to say, copper grease was used deliberately!

Now, could someone explain how to test the relay?
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Post by ron » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:38 pm

You do know that the system will only operate with the lights on and the windscreen wipers actuated. It will run twice and then stop for a few seconds and then run again if the windscreen wipers are operated again.
The pump for the washers is activated by the R/H motor coming off the "park" position. You will have noticed that the R/H motor has 4 wires against the L/H motor's 3. The extra wire is to power the washer pump.

Sorry don't know how to test the relay.
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Brucey
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Post by Brucey » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:34 pm

test the parts separately, then test for the trigger signal from the main wipers and ppower via the lighting circuit; if all OK and the system doesn't work, try a substitute relay.

hth

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Post by monoi » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:45 pm

Thank you for the info, I didn't know about the headlights on...you just saved me a lot of potential head scratching.

So I turn the lights on, and work the windscreen washer? Does it matter if I push or pull the stalk?
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Brucey
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Post by Brucey » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:59 am

IIRC it should work with the intensiv function. It explains how in the owners manual, and there is more detail in my write-up.

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Post by monoi » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:05 am

Of course, I did forget about the headlights having to be on...once I realised that (re-reading your write up), it all works swimmingly!

The only weird thing is that the motor with 4 connections only does 1 wipe, when the other makes 2. Both take the same time too. Is that normal?
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Post by tobes » Sun May 31, 2015 8:36 pm

OK, to once again dig up an old thread, please can I tap the brains of those who have done this before?

After considerable cleaning, easing, applying various penetrating lubes and generally coaxing these units back into life, I have two very-nearly-working wipers. But...

My RHS motor runs continuously when given power on the Purple / Black wire (i.e. does not stop in the park position).

My LHS motor runs fine for most of the cycle, however around 80% of the time will jam before returning quite to the park position. It can be run back and forth quite reliably but seems to jam in the same position.

So it looks like I need to open up both motors.

Is the "way in" to chip at the epoxy potting? then undo the screws underneath? Does that also release the black covers from the motor bodies, or do I need to cut them open in any case? Any recommendation as to the best tool(s) to chip at this with?

Is there anything else I can try before I attack them?

Thanks in advance.
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Post by Brucey » Sun May 31, 2015 9:00 pm

your units sound like they are working normally.

The RH unit should run continuously when it sees power. The control relay sends the park signal.

I suspect that you just have the wipers set on the wrong spline on the LH unit, and they perhaps just seem to parking at the wrong spot because of this.

As described in the write-up, you should cycle the system from the control relay to ensure that the spindles are parked correctly. Then and only then should you reattach the wiper arms.

I would not open up these units unless it is absolutely certain that it is necessary.

It may help to look here too;

viewtopic.php?t=2247&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Post by tobes » Sun May 31, 2015 9:12 pm

It would be good if they were working and didn't need taking apart! I understood that the wiper would stop at the park position unless there was power on the Black / Yellow wire (i.e. there was a changeover switch so that at park, the motor was only powered from the B/Y wire, elsewhere it's powered only from the Black / Purple wire). So that Black / Yellow was energised for however long wiping was desired, then it was de-energised, but power remained on the purple / black wire to power the wiper until it reached park? I'm confused as to how the wipers can be expected to remain in sync otherwise, as they are bound to run at slightly different speeds, and they appear to be wired in parallel?

I've not disturbed the position of the blades on the Left Hand unit (not that that's proof that they're in the right position), however if it runs past it's "jam point" it will park at the correct position. Also when it jams, it's still drawing current.
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Post by Brucey » Sun May 31, 2015 9:46 pm

OK the jamming does sound a bit more like a real problem inside the unit, but do be sure of this before digging in. If you have not done so yet, disconnect the linkage from the motor unit and see if it still jams or not.

IIRC both units will run without stopping if they see power on the right connections, but it has been a while since I looked at it. There is more detail in some versions of the ETM; I'll be honest and say that I am a bit fuzzy on the start/park protocol after this long!

cheers
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Post by ron » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:16 am

The motor should run constantly with the Blue/Black and the Yellow/Black wires connected together. Then with just the Bl/Blk it will park. Touching just the Y/Bl wire will move it fractionally more.

I would advise against trying to get into the motor by digging out the potting compound as the wires are deeply embedded in said compound (and it is like concrete).

Message me for any more info.
They are ALWAYS rustier than you thought!!!!!!
'85 M #228
'87 M #367
'88 High line.
'80 735i
'10 X5

humble.bees

Re: those pesky headlight wash/wipe bits....

Post by humble.bees » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:29 am

Huge thanks to Brucey and Martyn for their superbly detailed descriptions and to Ron for his info. Having finally managed to get the whole thing apart and operating at the extremes of my ability I've found that the motor works and cycles correctly when powered directly. The brown wire is continuous to the black component in the picture from the socket and the Yellow/Black is continuous too from socket to black component.
Is this component the otter switch? There is no continuity through it and the motor doesn't work via the socket wires. No readings at all.
Thanks for your help.

David
IMAG0197.jpg
IMAG0197.jpg (474.42 KiB) Viewed 5248 times

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Re: those pesky headlight wash/wipe bits....

Post by Candycj1 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:08 pm

Adding to this old thread rather than starting a new one, hope Brucey and co are watching!

I've removed both sides, disassembled, cleaned and lubed everything - second pivot both sides was indeed seized but after much persuasion is now nice and free on both. Slave side is working perfectly, thankfully no need to cut in to the actuator. Main side though showed no life through the plug at all so after much trying, eventually decided to cut into the back and opened it up. Brushes have plenty of meat, no signs or smells of burning, armature nice and bright. continuity over the thermal switch. motor turns fine by hand. motor turns fine when power applied directly. hmmm - all seems fine. i then tried the plug again - suddenly i now have continuity?! If i now apply power at the plug it seems to run fine. Did i screw up testing beforehand (i'm 99.99999% sure i didn't) or has fiddling with it - perhaps powering it directly - moved it past a dead point? Any ideas appreciated - i don't just want to close it up and refit whilst there is an intermittent fault - bound to break as soon as its back on the car...!

meantime here's a couple of pics for Brucey - seems sometimes the control unit can be in remarkably good condition after 31 years...!

front:
Image

back (surprisingly intact)
Image

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Re: those pesky headlight wash/wipe bits....

Post by ZesCoupe » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:37 am

Been a while since this thread was active but I received a notification via email.

@Candycj1 (didn't sign your real name). If you are so sure that your testing was 100% then my first thought would be a problem in the connector. Maybe it was just some corrosion which has been partially cleaned by the action of disconnection/connection, otherwise a cable break in that area? I should just check if you can maybe recreate the not working situation by playing with the wiring/connector.

As a footnote I should add that my days as big coupe owner are over, mine was sold in January this year. Now almost 69 I found that physically working on the car was getting to be a struggle. Most notably last year when trying to solve my "http://bigcoupe.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph ... ke+mystery" I found that constantly trying to work under the car was causing the air to become rather blue with expletives. My wife suggested it was maybe time to do something else. The situation was exacerbated by the aftereffects of a relatively serious accident on a 50cc scooter I used to get to a parttime job at the beginning of the year. Not my fault in any way, a stupid cyclist with mobile phone in her hand just turned in front of me and I was carted off in an ambulance with amongst other things a broken collar bone. Still not completely over it but now have a 40 year old Harley to work on.
"If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well" My Dad (1921-1995)

1986 635CSi (Sold)
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Re: those pesky headlight wash/wipe bits....

Post by Candycj1 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:31 pm

ZesCoupe wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:37 am
Been a while since this thread was active but I received a notification via email.

@Candycj1 (didn't sign your real name). If you are so sure that your testing was 100% then my first thought would be a problem in the connector. Maybe it was just some corrosion which has been partially cleaned by the action of disconnection/connection, otherwise a cable break in that area? I should just check if you can maybe recreate the not working situation by playing with the wiring/connector.

As a footnote I should add that my days as big coupe owner are over, mine was sold in January this year. Now almost 69 I found that physically working on the car was getting to be a struggle. Most notably last year when trying to solve my "http://bigcoupe.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph ... ke+mystery" I found that constantly trying to work under the car was causing the air to become rather blue with expletives. My wife suggested it was maybe time to do something else. The situation was exacerbated by the aftereffects of a relatively serious accident on a 50cc scooter I used to get to a parttime job at the beginning of the year. Not my fault in any way, a stupid cyclist with mobile phone in her hand just turned in front of me and I was carted off in an ambulance with amongst other things a broken collar bone. Still not completely over it but now have a 40 year old Harley to work on.
Hi Martyn

First off my name's James - sorry for missing that :-). Secondly sorry you've sold the car and moreover to hear of the accident - glad you're recovering and at least have a new toy to work on!

Thanks for responding - hope you can further help confirm my theory. Your (excellent) write up says the cam cuts the circuit from violet after 95% of the cycle which is then reconnected via power to yellow which moves the cam the remaining 5% past the disconnect point so violet can take over again. I'm assuming when mine was stopped it was in this violet disconnected state which explains why power to violet didn't kick it off, but power to yellow should have. My guess is then either i messed up testing and powering yellow would have moved it on (pretty sure i did check but can't be 100%) or maybe my yellow connection isn't working properly.

I ran a few more cycles today by powering violet and checking the other two terminals - both blue and yellow showed intermittent continuity to ground during the cycle, which i assume is the two cam switches powering blue for the squirter and connecting yellow for the 5%, so that appears ok and suggests maybe i did just screw up the testing. I've not yet taken the motor out to visually inspect the cams - maybe there's a point where neither yellow nor violet are connected but the cycle has to stop at just that point to fail - a visual inspection might confirm so i guess that's next. If that all looks good i'll assume it was my error, reassemble and test the whole thing on the car.

Question though - should the motor run continuously with power to violet alone, shouldn't it stop at the break point?

Cheers
James

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Re: those pesky headlight wash/wipe bits....

Post by ZesCoupe » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:29 pm

Hi James,

Now if I recollect correctly (been a while :wink: ) as long as the system is switched on (via the wipers, lights and the relay) you will always have power on those wires - it's the rotary switch that runs the cycle. When the system is switched off the cycle will complete but won't get the trigger to start again from the relay, but there should be no point in the (on) cycle where they are off and of course it can't run continuously from violet alone. As the cycle is run by the relay it could be possible that, although looking clean, inside is not 100% in order. Another point - you mention "intermittent continuity to ground" - don't quite get what you mean by that but it is a known fact that bad grounds can cause the strangest effects in automotive electrical systems.

Checking automotive electrical circuits needs a logical approach as to what, when and where. Might be worth taking a look at the troubleshooting procedure as detailed on the MyE28 forum, the electrical systems are almost identical.http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=56570. Don't forget Brucey's other topic http://bigcoupe.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph ... 15555227c7

Regards,
Martyn
"If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well" My Dad (1921-1995)

1986 635CSi (Sold)
www.automotivelife.nl

Candycj1
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Re: those pesky headlight wash/wipe bits....

Post by Candycj1 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:08 pm

Thanks Martyn. My testing to date has only been at the actuator itself out of the rest of the system so the relay doesn't come into play at this point.

I believe there must always be a closed circuit from brown to either yellow or violet, it can't be neither as the motor would then never start and the rotary switch not come into effect regardless of lights, relay and wipers. I seemed to have been in that position though which is why i opened it up, since when i seemingly can't get back to that 'broken' state - hence either its a very intermittent / specific place in the cycle where it breaks or (increasingly likely), i simply screwed up my original testing and its not actually broken... ](*,)

Please forgive my clumsy phrasing re intermittent ground - what i meant was i was getting a closed circuit at various points during the cycle to blue and yellow which would be the rotary disc / cam activating the switches as expected.

I've decided to close it up for now, reassemble and refit to the car and test the whole thing in situ, will post back here with how it goes!

Cheers

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