Hirschmann antenna mounting

[DRPM635CSi]

My car has a dodgy aftermarket antenna in it installed by PO. I have sourced a replacement genuine Hirschmann to replace it with but it came from an E28. Are the bodywork fixtures (ie. the two chrome rings and the rubber gasket + the metallic collar that goes below the bodywork the same on E24 as E28?

Photos to illustrate what I'm on about:

http://img76.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=00003738bx.jpg

[DRPM635CSi]

Bump up. If no-one knows for sure if the E28 & E24 grommet hardware for the Hirschmann is the same, then could someone who knows their antenna is original please take some good close up photos of that area of their car and post them so I can take a look and try to figure it out for myself?

Thanks.

[sharkfan]

Sorry, I for one have had to replace a load of aerials in my time - I don't even know if the originals were offered in chrome or black finish, or with four or five sections - presentlt I have a chrome after-market on my blue 82 635 and I've recently fitted a replacement black after-market on my white 85 M635.

Sorry, no advice on riginal fittings.

Sharkfan

[Chris Wright]

Your wish is my command :)
or
(An excuse to play with my new camera. From the looks of some of them I think I need to reread the manual :? )

The first is from the back looking forward.

The second is from the side looking across the trunk (wouldn't you know the money shot with the BMW logo and it's out of focus )

The third is in the trunk on the right side.

The fourth is the under side of the fender standing on my head.

[Chris Wright]

The previous post wouldn't let me post more then three pictures? Anyboby know if the 256K file limitation is per file or total for all uploads?

Anyway, here is the fourth view from under the fender.

[DRPM635CSi]

Thanks Chris, that's perfect. I think it's the same as the E28 one.

Cheers

[mr brick driver]

I think that the case is different on mine. Hopefully I can take a picture of it tomorrow, along with the rest of the car.

[DRPM635CSi]

Your wish is my command :)
or
(An excuse to play with my new camera. From the looks of some of them I think I need to reread the manual :? )

The first is from the back looking forward.

The second is from the side looking across the trunk (wouldn't you know the money shot with the BMW logo and it's out of focus )

The third is in the trunk on the right side.

The fourth is the under side of the fender standing on my head.

Chris, that photo names RtTrunk you have there looks exactly like what I've got. That drilled piece of metal strap visible there twisted around to be able to be screwed to the hole in the body seem under the carpet there, is that the only other mounting point for the antenna body proper or is there another mounting lower down as well which is not visible?

Also, does anyone know where I can get the white plastic plug visible in the same photo? I have only the half of it that's connected to the antenna. The other side has been discarded by PO when they installed the aftermarket made in China antenna instead. I would like to keep the OE plug if at all possible.

[Chris Wright]

Chris, that photo names RtTrunk you have there looks exactly like what I've got. That drilled piece of metal strap visible there twisted around to be able to be screwed to the hole in the body seem under the carpet there, is that the only other mounting point for the antenna body proper or is there another mounting lower down as well which is not visible?

Yes, there is a lower mount. Feel the carpet along the lower curve and you will feel a hole. Peel the carpet back and loosen the nut in the hole. The mount is slotted, so you don't have to remove the nut, only loosen it to slide the antenna out.

Also, does anyone know where I can get the white plastic plug visible in the same photo? I have only the half of it that's connected to the antenna. The other side has been discarded by PO when they installed the aftermarket made in China antenna instead. I would like to keep the OE plug if at all possible.

Try one of the Guys parting out a car, it would be easy to mail.

[DRPM635CSi]

Here are some shots of what I'm dealing with. I've got the Hirschmann antenna (Auta 6000EL as required), I've got the correct chrome collar & tip for mounting on the fender and I've even got the correct underbody collar as well (although I will need to make up a new gasket/seal for it.



I've also got from the old Chinese antenna, one piece of drilled metal strap I can obviously poach and re-use for that mounting visible in your photo. What I don't have is the other side of that white plug, the correct threaded terminal end for the co-ax antenna cable to screw into the collar of the Hirschmann and whatever is required for the lower mounting you mention.

How do the threaded straps attach to the body of the Hirschmann? All I can see at the top and at the bottom of the motor body are slotted tongue mouldings. How are they used? Also, I presume the black earth lead just goes along with the mounting strap and screws to the bodywork?

Is that small screw visible in the neck of the motor body where the mast comes out significant to the mounting of the unit as a whole or is that just the lock screw for the mast?

[DRPM635CSi]

Yes, there is a lower mount. Feel the carpet along the lower curve and you will feel a hole. Peel the carpet back and loosen the nut in the hole. The mount is slotted, so you don't have to remove the nut, only loosen it to slide the antenna out.

Okay, I've found this hole now. It's the only other hole apart from the one higher up where the metal strap bolts to. There must be some sort of large oval shaped grommet or plastic fitting that's supposed to go in there which I'm missing because all I've got is a large (large enough to put two fingers into up to the first knuckle) oval shaped, what looks like access hole. There is no scarring in the paintwork around it to indicate that anything has ever been bolted there in the past. I've tried to take a picture of it but it's not easy as it's impossible to get your head far enough down there to see it.



I've taken some more shots of the Hirschmann just hanging in the final position from the top collar on the bodywork. The fuel vapour hoses seem to want to go in front of the motor body. Forcing them to go behind pulls them very tight and then they kick the mast outwards at the top where the it goes through the body. I guess what I really need to know is how that lower mounting works. I've got nothing in there at all and so nothing to work with. I'm at a loss.

[Chris Wright]

The first photo shows the upper bracket mounting points.

The second photo shows the lower, gray metal mounting bracket and the Point Of View (POV) of the mirror in the last photo, looking from the antenna back to the bulkhead.

The large hole in the outer bulkhead is only an access hole to the nut and bolt on the inner bulkhead. Is there a slot in the inner bulkhead?

[DRPM635CSi]

That's fantastic Chris! Thanks very much. Very clever use of a mirror to get the shot I needed. Wish I'd thought of that. I can see now how the plastic slot in the top of the antenna motor body is used too, which is great. The slot is obviously matched to the size of the head of a bolt which slides in there.

The only other piece of information I need is how the metal strap secures to the bottom of the antenna motor body. The plastic slots are a very different size and shape down at the bottom than the one at the top, so I'm wondering what's going on down there now.

I don't expect you want to remove your antenna just so I can see this detail, but is there any chance you could try using that mirror again and some bright lights to get a shot of the base of the motor body for me in situ?

There is quite a lot of room below the antenna body to place the mirror. Lighting the area sufficiently would be the only issue.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to answer your question. Yes, there is a similarly sized oval shaped slot in the inner body pressing wall in line with the hole in the outer wall to which the lower strap bolts. It is obviously there to provide access to the head of the bolt from the carpet side. Can I please get a shot of the head of that bolt from the carpet side? There must be either another piece of metal strap or one ginormous washer under it or something to act as a brace preventing the bolt from pulling through.

[DRPM635CSi]

Went to the local BMW wreckers today and scored some stuff. Unfortunately there was only one other E24 in the place and it too didn't have the correct antenna installed, so I had nothing to compare to. However, I did get the other side of the white plug I need and I got a length of the right cabling, so that's sorted. I also got a selection of the right bolts/washers and nuts so that metal strap fastening at the top is fully worked out and no longer any drama.

I still have a problem with the lower mounting though. I pulled the lower mounting bracketry from an E30, E28 & E23 (all they had in the place of the correct vintage) and none of them is right for an E24. In all those other cars the Hirschmann antenna sits around the other way. ie. the side with the 'h' logo and the little bulge for an internal gearwheel I suspect, sits outboard while the back of the unit is visible from inside the boot. In the E24 it's the other way around with the front of the unit visible from inside the boot. This has major implications for how the bracketry works. The lower brackets can only be slid on from the back side and that means the arm of the bracket you bolt to is on completely the wrong side when mounted in an E24.

I still need to see how the lower bracket works and attaches to the car bodywork.

[Chris Wright]

The inner body panel has a hole big enough for the head of the bolt and then a slot the blots slips into and is tightened from the outer access hole.
(There seems to be a piece of black tape across the hole that makes the hole look bigger then it really is in the photo in the mirror above)

I couldn't get a shot of the lower mount on the bottom of the antenna, but it just has a nut on a stud (or a bolt in a slot, like the top). This was located on a square boss on the right front corner as you view it from my photo above. There is a wire under the nut also, Ground wire?

[DRPM635CSi]

Thanks Chris. I've found that hole with the slot in it now. Not easy to see or get to in an M635CSi because the battery box is right there.

Cheers.

[tschultz]

Great detail here.

I dropped the bolt when removing it and the antenna motor unit.

On my '83, the unit grounded through this bolt. Hoping to be able to get it with a magnet tonight when reinstalling.

My motor unit didn't have a nylon cable for the mast, so upon removal I was able to use a different E30 motor and reuse the old unit which actually powered up and down.

Hoping to get it back and working tonight.

[DRPM635CSi]

Sorry to bump a really old thread, but I'm wondering if anyone with electrical knowledge knows what co-ax fitting I need to connect the antenna cable to the threaded input on the Hirschmann collar? The golden coloured knurled nut at the end of the grey co-ax antenna cable pictured in photo.

Unfortunately I don't have this fitting anymore since whomever replaced the Hirschmann antenna in the past must have cut the various cables and discarded the bit they didn't re-use, but now since I'm reinstalling an original working Hirschmann, I obviously also need to restore the wiring to match.

I'm happy with just whatever I can get from my local electrical parts store rather than trying to find an original fitting as long as it matches the thread of the Hirschmann collar output. The problem is I don't know what I'm asking for and with the antenna finally properly installed, it's a big task to take it out just to be able to walk into a shop with it and say "I want what fits this".

I'll be shopping here most likely. Can anyone with knowledge please tell me what connector I need to match the Hirschmann collar?
http://www.altronics.com.au/connectors/RF/

Thank you.

[baders]

I may be wrong in this, but I believe the connector is a Hirschmann female M10 and I think it is specific to Hirschmann. There would be adapters however to convert to a more available standard. Again, I may well stand correction. This is mine;

hirschmann.jpg (139.21 KiB) Viewed 9562 times

[baders]

Here's a converter Hirschmann to DIN.

http://www.dabonwheels.co.uk/Connector_ ... _DIN_M.asp

[DRPM635CSi]

I may be wrong in this, but I believe the connector is a Hirschmann female M10 and I think it is specific to Hirschmann.

Oh god, really? What a pain in the arse. I thought this would be fairly simple.

[DRPM635CSi]

Here's a converter Hirschmann to DIN.
http://www.dabonwheels.co.uk/Connector_ ... _DIN_M.asp

Fantastic!! Brilliant, that's exactly what I need since the car wiring loom actually terminates up alongside the RH boot lid hinge with a female DIN socket. It looks factory done like that, but who really knows this far down the line. There are no joins or dodgy insulation tape or heat shrink tubing to suggest a DIY job and in fact I can still feel the ridges where the power cables for the up down signal were moulded/attached to the co-ax antenna centre core cable as part of the factory loom so I really do think it's probably the original cable there. I'm going to assume it always had one of these adapter cables for the final connection to the Hirschmann, but was tossed when the antenna was replaced with a noisy, comically fast, universal fit piece of cheap replacement rubbish by a previous owner.

May I ask a question of where your cables run please? In my car there's a hole that looks designed for a grommet down low in a curved stiffener section behind my M6 battery box that look like it might be where the cable are intended to travel to get through from inside the stiffener, to outside where the antenna body mounts, but this little 12cm long adapter cable won't allow for that much travel all the way down to the boot floor almost to go through the hole and then back up again to the collar connection. I can extend the power cables of course to do that, but not the co-ax, so perhaps that hole is not intended for that at all, and perhaps the cables just cross over the top and perhaps cable-tied in place to the mounting bracketry?

Also, where did the factory connect the black (presumably Earth -ve) cable for the Hirschmann to? I can't see where it's attached in any of my photos. To test run my antenna I've just temporarily clamped it to the battery -ve post which works, but it should ideally be a bit neater than that.

[baders]

Not quite sure what you mean re the cable run, but my coax and lift motor cable run straight back into the interior via just above the wheel arch body work. The antenna motor ground (at least in an '86) is G302 which is under the rear seat L/H side from memory. Where are you in Perth ? I'm in Clarkson.

[DRPM635CSi]

Not quite sure what you mean re the cable run, but my coax and lift motor cable run straight back into the interior via just above the wheel arch body work. The antenna motor ground (at least in an '86) is G302 which is under the rear seat L/H side from memory. Where are you in Perth ? I'm in Clarkson.

I dunno what G302 means, I'm just talking about the little black cable that comes out of the Hirschmann body along with the red & white power cables. Obviously the red & white are the +ve power leads to drive the motor one way & the other to extend/retract, the black is the corresponding -ve earth lead. I'm just wondering where they attached that black lead to on the car since there is no earth lead as part of the co-ax/red/white triple cable that goes up through the rear seat and eventually into the back of the dash for the radio connection. I presume it's supposed to just terminate with a hoop strap and connect to one of the mounting bracket screws. I don't truthfully know though because I'm fitting a second hand Hirschmann that's been just butchered off whatever donor car it came from with wire cutters. All the plugs and wire terminations are gone. I have nothing to work with, just bare wires to try and recreate what should be there as best I can within reason.

I'm in Duncraig, so Clarkson is perfectly do-able for a drive-by to come and have a look-see at how it should be done.

[baders]

G302 is the designated ground position for the motorised antenna and many other items. You can find these details in the Electronic Troubleshooting Manual for your model which can be downloaded here; http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/

That said, you really only need to get a solid ground anywhere on the car body.

Images for an 1986 635csi G302 ground;

g302.JPG (37.75 KiB) Viewed 9533 times

g302-01.JPG (46.61 KiB) Viewed 9533 times

Duncraig is just down the road. Feel free to PM me and we can catch up if you like.