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problems with door shutting properly

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jlbsam
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problems with door shutting properly

Post by jlbsam » Mon May 11, 2015 8:00 pm

I hope someone has an answer for me. the door wouldn't shut and saw that the rubber bump stop was messed up, so got a new one. within a few days, that one is messed up too. what do i need to adjust to prevent this from happening again. see attached photo
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Last edited by jlbsam on Mon May 11, 2015 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jlbsam » Mon May 11, 2015 8:01 pm

oops, need to re-size

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Brucey
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Post by Brucey » Mon May 11, 2015 8:10 pm

you need to adjust either the hinges or (less likely) the 'V' part in the doorframe that engages with the wedge.

When the hinges are worn the door can sag and then the V has to work hard against the wedge as the door closes.

Eventually the V develops a sharp edge that tears the wedge up as the door closes. Buy a new wedge, and you are addressing the symptom, not the cause of the problem.

If the hinges are worn (or deformed where they mount eg because the door is cracked...) the door will be hanging noticeably low just before the wedge engages with the V.

BTW when you have fixed the wedge/V issue you should get a new striker knob for the latch itself; that part is missing too.

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hornhospital
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Post by hornhospital » Mon May 11, 2015 8:17 pm

I've resized that picture so we can see without scrolling all over...

EDIT: you beat me to it. =D>

Yes, you need a new bump stop, part number 51211823487, but you also need a new "thumb" for the catch (circled), part number 51211809735. It's supposed to have that little rubber cover on it to help the latch trip over.

See thread here. It's about 12 posts down....:

viewtopic.php?p=114573&sid=04eb7b3f95c9 ... b23b9d783a
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Ken Kanne
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Brucey
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Post by Brucey » Mon May 11, 2015 8:32 pm

sure, but the (bump stop) wedge piece is all torn up and that only happens when the door and/or the wedge vs V piece alignment is bad.

Just fitting new parts doesn't work, as the OP has discovered; you need to fix the underlying door alignment problem....

The little rubber cover is the icing on the cake though!

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Post by jlbsam » Mon May 11, 2015 8:44 pm

So the door alignment is off, does that mean i need to move the hinges. how is that done?

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tschultz
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Post by tschultz » Mon May 11, 2015 11:00 pm

Look on the catch on the body side (not the door latch). I believe loosening the 3 screws allows it to adjust up/down/sideways.

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Post by sharkfan » Tue May 12, 2015 5:57 am

Without the cover on the catch (circled) you're probably slamming the door really hard to get it to close. Buy the cover, a new rubber for underneath the 3 screws, align the rubber, lube the metal plates on the rubber with grease and good luck.
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sansouci
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Post by sansouci » Tue May 12, 2015 12:43 pm

Take pictures of the door almost closed and measure the droop from the bottom tip of the door to the floor vs where it would be when the door is fully closed. Now do it on the other side. Likely to be worse on the driver side as it gets more use.

A great body man will check all gaps when assembling and restoring hoods, trunk lids and doors.

As to the hinges_lubricate the heck out of them with white grease. Latches should get graphite which collects less road grime. And is your door latch mechanism inside the door card in good condition?
Last edited by sansouci on Mon May 25, 2015 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Brucey
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Post by Brucey » Tue May 12, 2015 12:46 pm

tschultz wrote:Look on the catch on the body side (not the door latch). I believe loosening the 3 screws allows it to adjust up/down/sideways.
yes you can do that, but that won't realign the door if the door has sagged, it'll just allow the door to close more easily even though it is in the wrong place....

If the door isn't aligned (look at the height of the body crease and the window surrounds etc when the door is nearly closed) it can mean that the car has been in a prang or that the whole door surround is distorted because of corrosion etc.

But the most likely thing is that the door hinges are simply worn. They are meant to be lubricated on a regular basis, but this gets skipped over or the wrong grease (eg a non penetrating one) is used. If you try and lift the back edge of the door when it is nearly closed, you will be able to feel any hinge wear as free play.

The other thing that can happen is that the door itself is cracking. usually near the limiter.

If the hinges are worn or the door is sagging the wedge piece is asked to force the door upwards as it is closed, which is why it screws the wedge piece up; it isn't meant to have to do that... moving the 'V' piece just postpones the day you have to fix it properly IMHO.

You can see how the hinges are arranged here

Image

for adjustment, see the online workshop manual.

Do remember that if you alter the door position when then door is closed, you will also need to realign the glass, which is a another PITA job.

The rubber boot thing on the latch allows the door to close more easily but will have little or no influence on the rate at which you will chew up the wedge-shaped buffer.

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Post by sansouci » Tue May 12, 2015 1:21 pm

Brucy,
So it looks like the hingepin is captive in the hinge (#9) and it must be replaced as a unit while the pin for the limiter (#5) can be replaced. Too bad there doesn't seem to be an easy way to install a zerk fitting on the hinge.
--Ken
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Ralph in Socal
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Post by Ralph in Socal » Tue May 12, 2015 2:56 pm

Most likely worn hinge(s) as Brucey suggested. New ones are (were) available for about $100 each. Good luck Jim.

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Brucey
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Post by Brucey » Tue May 12, 2015 5:12 pm

sansouci wrote:Brucy,
So it looks like the hingepin is captive in the hinge (#9) and it must be replaced as a unit while the pin for the limiter (#5) can be replaced. Too bad there doesn't seem to be an easy way to install a zerk fitting on the hinge.
--Ken
Yes a grease nipple would be good... but a way of lubing them is to use a semi-fluid grease, or heavy oil. Just pry the top cap off the hinge pivot, add some lube, and replace the cap.

After trying several different versions, I have decided that most spray white greases are intended to give the appearance of maintenance, rather than being actual maintenance; I have yet to find one that either penetrates well or in time doesn't dry out quicker than I'd like.

The final failed experiment with white grease was to lube the throttle linkage. Within six weeks there was a brown stain on the grease overspray. The brown stain was because the bushing surfaces in the linkage were bone-dry and actually going rusty....I've seen the same thing with door hinges, too....

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sansouci
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Post by sansouci » Wed May 13, 2015 4:27 am

I will switch from white grease spray lube to something with less viscosity to flow into the wear surfaces.
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Post by JoelR » Fri May 15, 2015 3:02 pm

Brucey wrote:
for adjustment, see the online workshop manual.
Does anyone have a good means of loosening the Phillips head hinge bolts on the body? I got out my biggest Phillips head driver (which fits the head well) and my socket wrench, but it just wanted to strip the head, so I stopped before I did too much damage.

Thanks!
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Brucey
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Post by Brucey » Fri May 15, 2015 3:15 pm

An impact driver, or Ron's favourite tool as seen here

viewtopic.php?t=24840

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Post by hornhospital » Fri May 15, 2015 8:16 pm

Impact screwdriver, extension and a tight-fitting impact Phillips bit. Whack the crap out of each screw and they'll come loose. Be sure to apply likewise impact when tightening them.
Ken Kanne
'84 633CSi "Sylvia"; '85 635CSi "Katja";'85 325e "Hazel Ann";'87 325is "Odette"; '93 325is "Elvira"; '95 M3 "Ashlyn"; '95 318is "Bebe"

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Post by sharkfan » Fri May 15, 2015 8:30 pm

Penetrant spray and an impact driver - I used one recently for some corroded and seemingly unmoveable screws - correct tools for the job and done in seconds.
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sansouci
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Post by sansouci » Sat May 16, 2015 12:22 pm

This is what you want. But watch your knuckles, buy impact philips tips that I think are #3 and beat 'er. Unless you are replacing the hinge, only loosen it. Otherwise you will have a two man job to rehang it, unless you have a door cradle & lift

http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_ ... 0947641000


Let us know how it goes!
Ken
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93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)

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Post by ron » Sat May 16, 2015 12:45 pm

You have exactly the same problem with an impact driver as you do with an impact gun. As soon as you hit the driver it will turn and, if you can't hold it tight enough onto the screw head, the bit will damage the head.

That's why this tool is the best thing since sliced bread!


Image
They are ALWAYS rustier than you thought!!!!!!
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sansouci
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Post by sansouci » Sat May 16, 2015 1:13 pm

Ron,
I'm looking at the UASTCO tool catalog and they have several. Here's the link.
http://www.usatco.com/productdetail/M37 ... OOL%20KITS

Can you recommend which one is most appropriate for our needs?

--Ken
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)

ron
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Post by ron » Sat May 16, 2015 1:20 pm

07-540 is the one I have.
They are ALWAYS rustier than you thought!!!!!!
'85 M #228
'87 M #367
'88 High line.
'80 735i
'10 X5

Derek

Post by Derek » Mon May 25, 2015 6:20 pm

Does anyone have a good means of loosening the Phillips head hinge bolts on the body? I got out my biggest Phillips head driver (which fits the head well) and my socket wrench, but it just wanted to strip the head, so I stopped before I did too much damage.

Thanks![/quote]

A "Screw Knocker" with a phillips bit works on these screws, you can find them on ebay.

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