Fog light question

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joeg
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Fog light question

Post by joeg »

I've done a lot of searching, but I'm still confused and wanted to make sure I know what I'm doing before I hunt/buy anything.

There were 3 front bumpers... Euro, "World", and M6, right? They each have different size fog lights and are not interchangeable?

I have a 1980 635CSI... so I have the Euro bumper, correct?
So wihch oem fog lights fit my bumper and are there any aftermarket replacements (or fog lights from other BMWs) with more modern technology? (ie. projector or bigger housing that fits HIDs, etc)

The e34 fog lights look a lot like the M6 ones, but I'm not sure if either would even fit.

Also, the fog lights I have have the Hella model number "302123401" on them... but googling that yields nothing.

EDIT: also, I checked real OEM and they have the bumper-mounted fog lights listed for my year/model, which is incorrect.
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Re: Fog light question

Post by Ralph in Socal »

Clarification Joe.

euro Bumper Fogs - used throughout non-USA production cars until 87. Lenses are still readily available as e30 M3 lenses. Same Fog Lights were also used on euro e23s, euro e28s and e28 535is (USA Models) and M5/M6. Housings and mounts are NLA for all models.

World (Highline) Bumper Fogs- used for 88/89 models though I have seen them on a few 87s (probably late 87 production prior to switching to 88 model year). Foglights have curved lower/outer corners that are the same as e32 foglights. E34 foglights appear similar but are about 10mm shorter in lens width.

US Bumper Fogs - used throughout USA production from 76 to 87. Some used bumper mounted Bosch foglights that are still available and others had spoiler mounted Hella foglights that are NLA. There were also a few cars that used bumper mounted Hella Foglights with lenses that are similar to the spoiler mounted units.

Hoping I didn't add to your confusion. And I may be incorrect about the USA 87 M6 set-up.


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Re: Fog light question

Post by joeg »

Ralph in Socal wrote:Clarification Joe.

euro Bumper Fogs - used throughout non-USA production cars until 87. Lenses are still readily available as e30 M3 lenses. Same Fog Lights were also used on euro e23s, euro e28s and e28 535is (USA Models) and M5/M6. Housings and mounts are NLA for all models.

World (Highline) Bumper Fogs- used for 88/89 models though I have seen them on a few 87s (probably late 87 production prior to switching to 88 model year). Foglights have curved lower/outer corners that are the same as e32 foglights. E34 foglights appear similar but are about 10mm shorter in lens width.

US Bumper Fogs - used throughout USA production from 76 to 87. Some used bumper mounted Bosch foglights that are still available and others had spoiler mounted Hella foglights that are NLA. There were also a few cars that used bumper mounted Hella Foglights with lenses that are similar to the spoiler mounted units.

Hoping I didn't add to your confusion. And I may be incorrect about the USA 87 M6 set-up.


Ralph
no, thats actually quite helpful. So I can use an e30 M3 fog lamp which is probably a lot easier to source for me in the US. Do you know if the world/highline fogs would fit the euro bumper as well? Those are really nice projector H1 lamps.
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Re: Fog light question

Post by Ralph in Socal »

I've not tried to interchange World Foglights to Euro application so I can't say for sure. Yes those are the only applicable units that are projectors.

M3 fogs are available through ebay and some of the typical parts retailers. Good Luck.


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Re: Fog light question

Post by joeg »

Ralph in Socal wrote:I've not tried to interchange World Foglights to Euro application so I can't say for sure. Yes those are the only applicable units that are projectors.

M3 fogs are available through ebay and some of the typical parts retailers. Good Luck.


Ralph
Thanks for the info!

the E32 fogs are readily available and relatively cheap... unless anyone knows that they won't fit for sure, I might roll the dice and see how they fit.
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Uh, if this statement is true . . .

Post by GRNSHRK »

World (Highline) Bumper Fogs- used for 88/89 models. (edited with text removed...) Foglights have curved lower/outer corners that are the same as e32 foglights.
... then the E32 and/or 88/89 "world bumper" fog lamps are not going to fit your '80 Euro 635 [-X

As Ralph duly noted, they have a pronounced rounded corner on the lower/outer position and are NOT rectangular =;

Also, the "original" Euro front air dam for 1980 doesn't even have foglamp cutouts :-k

It's quite possible that either you or the PO upgraded to the later style with does have cutouts, but again they would be rectangular and the 88/89 world bumper type or E32 version will simply not fit :roll:

Now that being said, I have no idea about whether the E30 ///M3 lamps will fit, or others from the E30 product line, but I surmise there's soemthing else out there that will work [-o<

And in typical "Ralph" fashion, he's probably spot on regarding the E30 fitment \:D/
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Re: Uh, if this statement is true . . .

Post by joeg »

GRNSHRK wrote:
World (Highline) Bumper Fogs- used for 88/89 models. (edited with text removed...) Foglights have curved lower/outer corners that are the same as e32 foglights.
... then the E32 and/or 88/89 "world bumper" fog lamps are not going to fit your '80 Euro 635 [-X

As Ralph duly noted, they have a pronounced rounded corner on the lower/outer position and are NOT rectangular =;

Also, the "original" Euro front air dam for 1980 doesn't even have foglamp cutouts :-k

It's quite possible that either you or the PO upgraded to the later style with does have cutouts, but again they would be rectangular and the 88/89 world bumper type or E32 version will simply not fit :roll:

Now that being said, I have no idea about whether the E30 ///M3 lamps will fit, or others from the E30 product line, but I surmise there's soemthing else out there that will work [-o<

And in typical "Ralph" fashion, he's probably spot on regarding the E30 fitment \:D/
oh, strange... mine has cutouts and had foglights (until one got knocked out during the previous owner's tenure). So I have a later euro bumper?

Yeah, I now see what you're saying about the rounded lights... for a minute there I thought I could just put them in and you wouldn't notice the rounded edge, but it looks like it would create a gap.

I'll just grab a pair of e30 M3 lamps like Ralph said.
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Re: Fog light question

Post by joeg »

pardon the crappy image quality, but this is my bumper/fogs:
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Good thing you posted a pic . . .

Post by GRNSHRK »

...because that's an ///M635 front air dam :shock:

So yes, not original or stock for MY80, interesting that you've got the silly "elephant ears" front blinkers installed as well, surely as part of the dreaded DOT conversion process [-X

Bottom line, what you need has to fit the Euro ///M635 front air dam, I personally do not know if the E30 ///M3 units will fit or not, but I'm sure others on the board can advise you =D>
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Re: Good thing you posted a pic . . .

Post by joeg »

GRNSHRK wrote:...because that's an ///M635 front air dam :shock:

So yes, not original or stock for MY80, interesting that you've got the silly "elephant ears" front blinkers installed as well, surely as part of the dreaded DOT conversion process [-X

Bottom line, what you need has to fit the Euro ///M635 front air dam, I personally do not know if the E30 ///M3 units will fit or not, but I'm sure others on the board can advise you =D>

haha, I already replaced those elephant ears with the euro ones... I'm in the process of fitting the ellipsoids as well. I'll post some pics once I have all the lightning back to eurospec. They did a real hack job federalizing it back in the day. Wires everywhere.

So the Euro M635 bumper is different from the regular euro, the world bumper, and the US bumper? so there are a possible 4 bumpers for this car?

If anyone knows if the M3 units will fit, let me know.... they "look" right, but its so hard to tell in pictures.
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Re: Fog light question

Post by Alpinacsi »

Just a few notes in no particular order

The 80 euro would have had pendant/under bumper mounted fogs meaning they were not mounted in the spoiler.

Your car has a euro m635 spoiler mounted.

Your fog lens were found on most of the vehicles as mentioned by Ralph with a few exceptions. Also the mounting varied between the models but the lens was the same.

The M6 (to late 87) used the same fogs as the 85 to late 87 US 635 and the e30 is/es models.

The M6 from late 87 on used the same fogs as the rest of the models worldwide.

There were more than 4 bumper and bumper/spoiler combinations for the e24. I can think of 8.
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Re: Fog light question

Post by joeg »

Alpinacsi wrote:Just a few notes in no particular order

The 80 euro would have had pendant/under bumper mounted fogs meaning they were not mounted in the spoiler.

Your car has a euro m635 spoiler mounted.

Your fog lens were found on most of the vehicles as mentioned by Ralph with a few exceptions. Also the mounting varied between the models but the lens was the same.

The M6 (to late 87) used the same fogs as the 85 to late 87 US 635 and the e30 is/es models.

The M6 from late 87 on used the same fogs as the rest of the models worldwide.

There were more than 4 bumper and bumper/spoiler combinations for the e24. I can think of 8.
thanks!

8?! what are the additional 4?
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Re: Fog light question

Post by Alpinacsi »

1) early US with simple plastic lower valance - thru 84
2) US with plastic spoiler and fogs - 85-late 87 The M6 had vents in the middle for the oil cooler and the 635 had the vent locations but not opened up. Generally the replacements had the open vent locations so you will often find the cars that have had the spoiler replaced to have the open vents and I think that some of the later 635 models will also have the open vents as the production went that way after the introduction of the M6. These spoilers were made in the US and installed as the cars arrived here.
3) Late 87 and newer had the "world bumper" for all markets. The North American models only differed in the addition of the marker lights in the bumper side panels.
4) early euro to about 5/82 with the metal valance and no fogs
5) later euro 5/82-late 87 with metal valance and fogs
6) early euro 635 with plastic spoiler to about late 80. No fogs
7) euro 635 with plastic spoiler and fogs. Used up to the world bumper introduction.
8) euro m635 with fogs distinguished by the 3 groves in the lower lip. Used up to the introduction of the world bumper.
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Re: Fog light question

Post by joeg »

Alpinacsi wrote:1) early US with simple plastic lower valance - thru 84
2) US with plastic spoiler and fogs - 85-late 87 The M6 had vents in the middle for the oil cooler and the 635 had the vent locations but not opened up. Generally the replacements had the open vent locations so you will often find the cars that have had the spoiler replaced to have the open vents and I think that some of the later 635 models will also have the open vents as the production went that way after the introduction of the M6. These spoilers were made in the US and installed as the cars arrived here.
3) Late 87 and newer had the "world bumper" for all markets. The North American models only differed in the addition of the marker lights in the bumper side panels.
4) early euro to about 5/82 with the metal valance and no fogs
5) later euro 5/82-late 87 with metal valance and fogs
6) early euro 635 with plastic spoiler to about late 80. No fogs
7) euro 635 with plastic spoiler and fogs. Used up to the world bumper introduction.
8) euro m635 with fogs distinguished by the 3 groves in the lower lip. Used up to the introduction of the world bumper.
Thats insane.... and very impressive that you had that information. I hope this thread helps others in the future. Just for the sake of picking your brain... you wouldn't happen to know the same info on the rear bumpers, would you?
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Re: Fog light question

Post by Alpinacsi »

Rear is much easier:

1) early US (76-77) used the aluminum bumper with a single piece impact strip and the bumper ends were short with rear quarter trim that matched the early euro and matched the side molding found on the rest of the vehicle.

2) US models up to 80 used the alum bumper and single piece low profile impact strip. Also had new bumper ends that extended to the rear wheel opening.

3) US models from 80 to late 87 that used a revised 2 piece rear impact strip joined in the middle and thicker than previous versions.

4) world bumper from late 87 on and utilized body colored bumper ends. Only difference between US and euro was the addition of marker lights in the ends for the US market.

5) early euro up to mid 82

6) later euro from 5/82 to late 87 with the wrap around chrome steel bumper.
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Re: Fog light question

Post by joeg »

Alpinacsi wrote:Rear is much easier:

1) early US (76-77) used the aluminum bumper with a single piece impact strip and the bumper ends were short with rear quarter trim that matched the early euro and matched the side molding found on the rest of the vehicle.

2) US models up to 80 used the alum bumper and single piece low profile impact strip. Also had new bumper ends that extended to the rear wheel opening.

3) US models from 80 to late 87 that used a revised 2 piece rear impact strip joined in the middle and thicker than previous versions.

4) world bumper from late 87 on and utilized body colored bumper ends. Only difference between US and euro was the addition of marker lights in the ends for the US market.

5) early euro up to mid 82

6) later euro from 5/82 to late 87 with the wrap around chrome steel bumper.
Thats awesome! So which bumper do I have and were the turn signals on the side original?
http://imgur.com/a/2e3fF

PS. don't mind how banged up the car is, all of these pictures were from the day I picked her up. Time to take some new ones.
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Re: Fog light question

Post by Ralph in Socal »

Excellent info Todd. I've heard that although the Hella euro lenses are physically interchangeable, the fluting - for light output - was different between some models. Do you have any info regards the lens fluting? I like the definitive answers you provide and I would rather know than "have heard".

Thanks for the great new pic.

To Joe - looks like the early euro bumper but I guess my memory is failing again. Those early euro bumpers do not have the plastic separator strip as the later euros? Is there a hard rubber skirt like the US models?


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Re: Fog light question

Post by Alpinacsi »

Ralph in Socal wrote:Excellent info Todd. I've heard that although the Hella euro lenses are physically interchangeable, the fluting - for light output - was different between some models. Do you have any info regards the lens fluting? I like the definitive answers you provide and I would rather know than "have heard".

Thanks for the great new pic.

To Joe - looks like the early euro bumper but I guess my memory is failing again. Those early euro bumpers do not have the plastic separator strip as the later euros? Is there a hard rubber skirt like the US models?


Ralph
The various models all used the same lens but the fluting is different for left and right sides.

The early euro bumper did not use the trim like the later euro or like the US. The rear sheet metal turned back like the later euro tail panel and did not have the edge turned back out for the trim like the US models or the world bumper cars.
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Re: Fog light question

Post by Da_Hose »

I was recently able to order lenses for my 87 M6 fog lights from Pelican. About $30 as I recall. I just ordered some H1, 4300k HID bulb kits for them too. I will update this thread as to whether the HID bulbs are a good solution.

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Re: Fog light question

Post by Ralph in Socal »

Thanks for the clarification Todd.

Pics please Jose. I want to see what you have and receive. Like I mentioned above, I'm somewhat hazy on the 87 M6 fogs. Thanks.


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Re: Fog light question

Post by dwcains »

Da_Hose wrote:I was recently able to order lenses for my 87 M6 fog lights from Pelican. About $30 as I recall. I just ordered some H1, 4300k HID bulb kits for them too. I will update this thread as to whether the HID bulbs are a good solution.

Jose
I'd be interested in the results. I'm very happy with my car's headlights (Hella H1 BiFocus lows, and Euro H1 highs), but the foglights are darn near useless. I tinted them yellow, which seems to help with the dense sort of fog we get around here, and while it didn't reduce the light output, it also didn't increase effectiveness enough. I think I just need more power.

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Re: Fog light question

Post by Landsnark »

Thread back from the dead!

Jose - if you are still around, I'd love to hear how the Pelican lenses worked out. I'm sending mine back as they are not as wide as the originals in my M6 (build date 12/86).

If Dean's not around, perhaps someone else can weigh in on the solution to busted hellas. I understand that there may be some M3 lenses that work but it looks like they may need to have brackets removed?

Because of the wide variety of configurations BMW used, most of the part finder filters are pretty useless.

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Re: Fog light question

Post by hornhospital »

Bryan, Dean passed away suddenly not too long ago.
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Re: Fog light question

Post by Landsnark »

I'm sorry to hear that.
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Re: Fog light question

Post by MrE »

Hi Bryan

Anything here suit what you need...?

https://www.schmiedmann.com/en/bmw-E24/ ... 45-catn-ol
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