Question: Installing Euro Turn Lenses

[GWL]

Someone who has installed Euro turn signal lenses on an American E24 please advise as to how much of the reflector needs to be cut away and if the light bulb socket at the bottom of the reflector also has to be removed.

[bcadmin]

This was posted by my buddy Grnshrk

It is better to fully remove the DOT reflector than cut it. In fact, if you've ever seen an actual Euro housing, you will notice that it is exactly the same as the US unit, but without the reflector!

So, what you need to do is to remove the housing from the car, then the reflector from the housing. Easy beans, they are screwed in place

Then either paint the remaining housing with highly reflective paint, or use reflective tape, and render the entire interior of the housing, well, "reflective"

The other thing you need to do is tape off the leads that power the dinky little bulb down in the lower corner, as these will no longer be of use and could short out if they touch the car body.

Another reason for not cutting down the reflector is that even once you do this, you will have dark spots in the corners of your housing that are not illuminated at all, due to the hack job you just did. It will not yield the results you think it will.

Last, very good idea to get "stealth" bulbs instead of the amber ones, because using these lenses will give you the "fried egg" appearance if you use amber bulbs

[GWL]

This was posted by my buddy Grnshrk

It is better to fully remove the DOT reflector than cut it. In fact, if you've ever seen an actual Euro housing, you will notice that it is exactly the same as the US unit, but without the reflector!

So, what you need to do is to remove the housing from the car, then the reflector from the housing. Easy beans, they are screwed in place

Then either paint the remaining housing with highly reflective paint, or use reflective tape, and render the entire interior of the housing, well, "reflective"

The other thing you need to do is tape off the leads that power the dinky little bulb down in the lower corner, as these will no longer be of use and could short out if they touch the car body.

Another reason for not cutting down the reflector is that even once you do this, you will have dark spots in the corners of your housing that are not illuminated at all, due to the hack job you just did. It will not yield the results you think it will.

Last, very good idea to get "stealth" bulbs instead of the amber ones, because using these lenses will give you the "fried egg" appearance if you use amber bulbs

Thanks for the info. After owning my Euro for so long, I really wanted to go back to the Euro lenses, but after looking more closely to the American reflector and what I would apparently have to cut, I became a little hesitant. I think I will wait till I either get a set of Euro reflectors or have the corners off for some other reason, & then attempt the mod.

[bpoliakoff]

Available new at the dealer. I believe I paid about $150 the pair with my discount, about 8mos ago. My car is a euro and had been federalized. I cut off all the extraneous wirng back to the original loom

[GRNSHRK]

I cut off all the extraneous wirng back to the original loom

Yes, please don't forget to address the extra portion of the harness, which will be live once you turn the lights on :?

For you guys with Euro cars that have been converted, simply cutting the harness back is probably cool, since it had to be added during the DOT process anyway

But for US version cars that are being converted to Euro lenses, and if you don't want to compromise your stock wiring harnesses, it's best to simply tie this little part of the harness back, and either tape off or use shrink tubing to insulate the teminals. This will make it so that you could go back if desired, or the next owner could as well. Don't want any sparks flying now, do we

HTH

[PSandell]

I think they look great and if you take your time with a Dremel tool you can reduce the 2nd light socket down to just the bare minimum which cuts out the dark spot. It also provides a brighter indicator inside the euro lens.

I hope these pictures work.

Take care
Phil

[GWL]

Well, thanks to all the help from the group, the lighting project on my 87 M6 is finally complete. E-Code headlights, City Lights and Euro front corners. It all worked out well as the old wiring for the American side markers in the turn signal reflector work as the power for the City Lights. I could have swore that I heard a sigh of satisfaction from the car when it was done.

[rmorin1249]

I am resurrecting this thread because I am so confused.

I am trying to decide if I should modify my current US front turn signal housings to accept a Euro lens or buy a complete set of Euro lights with lenses.

My car currently has the US housings and lenses that were installed when it was federalized. When my parking lights are on the small bulb in each light illuminates. I am assuming the the larger socket is only for a single filament bulb since the larger bulb is currently a dual filament bulb but it only illuminates when used as a turn signal.

I have read as much as I can find about this issue but remain a bit confused.

If I remove my housings and install a complete Euro light with lens, will I have to install a new bulb socket to accept a dual filament bulb? How do I tie in the current wiring to utilize a dual filament bulb that will act as a turn signal and as a parking light? If I modify my current housings per this thread, what do I do with the wire that goes to the second smaller bulb socket? I would like to have a parking light.

Am I on the right track? Which option is better?

I would appreciate any help or advice. Thanks.

[GWL]

I am resurrecting this thread because I am so confused.

I am trying to decide if I should modify my current US front turn signal housings to accept a Euro lens or buy a complete set of Euro lights with lenses.

My car currently has the US housings and lenses that were installed when it was federalized. When my parking lights are on the small bulb in each light illuminates. I am assuming the the larger socket is only for a single filament bulb since the larger bulb is currently a dual filament bulb but it only illuminates when used as a turn signal.

I have read as much as I can find about this issue but remain a bit confused.

If I remove my housings and install a complete Euro light with lens, will I have to install a new bulb socket to accept a dual filament bulb? How do I tie in the current wiring to utilize a dual filament bulb that will act as a turn signal and as a parking light? If I modify my current housings per this thread, what do I do with the wire that goes to the second smaller bulb socket? I would like to have a parking light.

Am I on the right track? Which option is better?

I would appreciate any help or advice. Thanks.

I am sorry R. It has been so long that I do not remember these problems. My Euro is gone so I cannot go out to verify my memory as to exactly what I did to return my Euro from federalized to Euro form. Since I federalized my 80 back in 1981 when I brought it back to the US I may have gotten away with some lighting mods because as soon as it cleared the customs required modifications I returned it back to euro specs as much as was possible. I really don't remember the Euro lenses not fitting the NA lights on my 87 M6.

[rmorin1249]

No problem, George. Hopefully someone who has recently faced this issue can help me.

[bpoliakoff]

Randall if your car was a euro and federalized, I can promise you the shop that did it screwed with the wiring harness. Mine was F----d with big time. I bought/found some euro harness at the wreckers and spliced it back into my original. I would do what Bobbo says and just get rid of the reflectors. If not and my memory serves me right you can fit the euro lenses over the housing with both bulbs in it as long as you remove/ grind down the center partition. Anyone else?/ Bobbo??

[Alpinacsi]

I helped federalize many of these cars back in the '80s and have defederalized even more in subsequent years. I have seen how they have been butchered by many shops and there was no consistency in the way these were done. Before you go too far and before we can give very detailed info: you need to remove the lens and look at how the existing housing have been modified. If you have dual filament bulbs; I would like to know how they have done that and why it is not working.

[rmorin1249]

I helped federalize many of these cars back in the '80s and have defederalized even more in subsequent years. I have seen how they have been butchered by many shops and there was no consistency in the way these were done. Before you go too far and before we can give very detailed info: you need to remove the lens and look at how the existing housing have been modified. If you have dual filament bulbs; I would like to know how they have done that and why it is not working.

I understand. What I can tell you now is that I replaced both of the front turn signal units with fresh bulbs a few weeks ago. The larger bulb is a dual filament bulb and the smaller one is a single filament. The smaller bulb illuminates when the parking lights are on and the larger bulb blinks as a turn signal only. The larger bulb does not illuminate when the parking lights are on and the smaller bulb does not blink when the turn signals are on.

[GRNSHRK]

Hey Bert,

I've been working with Randall off line, but the underlying problem, as identified but most of us, is that the DOT rewiring was likely botched and is not powering the lower wattage filament in the dual filament bulb

Randall needs to pull his blinker assemblies and check the wiring, start counting how many conductors (wires) are in the harness for the dual filament socket, how the smaller bulb is being powered since that would not have been stock as a Euro, etc.

We also discussed the mods required to go back to Euro lenses, is it possible to eliminate the smaller bulb that was added, which of course is true, if he can get the lower wattage filament illuminating when he turns the park lights on

I also think he's waiting for things to warm up a bit, so that he can work on the car without freezing his ass off

[rmorin1249]

Would the Euro lens fit on my housing if only the reflector is removed and the smaller bulb was left in place? If this is feasible I would leave the wiring alone and I would still have a parking light.

[Alpinacsi]

I think PSandall detailed this previously.

Again this is the best option as no additional wiring is required and remains as it is now.

[GRNSHRK]

...you'll be able to answer your question real fast, Randall

Just 3 screws, and you're in

Remove the larger US "elephant ear" type and see if the Euro one clears the bulbs and reflector

Again, this really depends on how the DOT conversion was performed, I have seen conversions that just added the smaller bulb, but still cleared the Euro lens

And since you need to get this issue sorted anyway, might as well have a look, again it's only 3 screws

[rmorin1249]

...you'll be able to answer your question real fast, Randall

Just 3 screws, and you're in

Remove the larger US "elephant ear" type and see if the Euro one clears the bulbs and reflector

Again, this really depends on how the DOT conversion was performed, I have seen conversions that just added the smaller bulb, but still cleared the Euro lens

And since you need to get this issue sorted anyway, might as well have a look, again it's only 3 screws

Since the sun is shining, the roads are dry and the temps made it above freezing I decided to get the car out of the garage and take her for a spin. Drove like a dream. I did remove one of the front lenses and unless there is some curvature to the Euro lens, I don't have one to check the fitment, I don't think it's going to clear the extra bulb as it is mounted right at the edge of the housing. It really would have been sweet if all I had to do is remove the reflector or at least cut it down and then install the Euro lens but it looks like the smaller bulb is going to have to go or at least be moved inward a bit if this is feasible. Supposed to snow again tonight and tomorrow so she goes back in the garage on the battery tender. You guys in CA and AZ don't know how lucky you are being able to drive your cars year round.

BTW, if anyone has a nice pair of Euro lenses they are willing to sell, I need a set. Best price I have found is around $42 each plus shipping. Thanks.

[hornhospital]

Stand by, Randall. I'm about to try a Euro lens on my US corner. be back in a while.

[rmorin1249]

Stand by, Randall. I'm about to try a Euro lens on my US corner. be back in a while.

Thanks, this really is a friendly and responsive bunch of guys!

[GRNSHRK]

...working

[hornhospital]

Good news...and bad news.

Will Euro lenses fit on US bases, as in three screws and it's on? Nope. The internal reflector of the US base interferes (hits) the back of the lens, keeping it from even getting close to seating on the gasket.

HOWEVER, the US base can be modified by cutting back the curved reflector portion so that the lens will seat. I HAVE NOT DONE THIS MYSELF, but I intend to. I was told this and showed this modification by the person I bought the lenses from. I got the Euro bases with the lenses, but I wanted to keep my full "park light/side light/turn signal" functions. I have two 24s, and will probably use these lenses and US bases on my 635. I also got a set of "sort-of" Euro lenses. I'm guessing they are late US lenses, since they have a DOT number. They won't fit on the '84 bases, either. Same reason. I'll use those late lenses on the '84.

[hornhospital]

Here are what I assume to be late US lenses...

[rmorin1249]

Ken,

I take this as very good news. Are you saying that the Euro lens will fit on the US housing with the small parking light bulb in place?

If so, I will be a happy camper as this will allow me to keep my parking light feature and leave the wiring as is.

Are you going to attempt to only reduce the size of the reflector and not remove it completely? I have heard that you can remove it completely as it is affixed with screws. However, it also looks like it will be a pain to remove the entire housing to access the screws.

Do you think it is feasible to bend the reflector rather than cut it down or remove it? On my car, I will likely have to remove the windshield washer reservoir on one side and the airbox on the other in order to remove the entire base. This is why I am waiting for warmer weather!

At any rate, please let me know if successfully install your Euro lens without having to remove the small bulb.

Thanks very much for your help. If this is true, I am stoked!

Still looking for a set of Euro lenses. I'll probably order a set in a couple days if I can't find a used set.

[hornhospital]

That's what I'm going to try....take the base out and modify the reflector. It LOOKS like the bulb will clear. I wish I could contact the gentleman that sold me the Euro lenses and showed me the modification he did to his lights, but he's apparently moved with no forwarding address or active email address. I REALLY wish I had a plain 1984-87 base to modify, to see if this works without ruining one of my bases.

Yes, taking those bases out is a real fun job.