e24 with N/A tuned M88/3 (S38)

mikko · Post by **mikko** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:52 am

Hi, taking a day off from work after the Finnish independence day and I finally remembered to register here. I'm not very active in internet. I have a business to run, family and too many project cars.

I've owned my coupe since 2008 when I imported it from Germany. It originally was a 635csi cat model producing 185 hp and with the zf 4hp22 automatic transmission. That was a combination I couldn't live with. Therefore I swapped the engine and the transmission to something that really brings drivings pleasure.

To be honest, I bought the engine previous to the car. After that I started to look for a chassis where to drop the engine. I rebuilt and tuned the engine thoroughly before installation, it also have had some minor modifications after the build up (newer version of Megasquirt, etc.). The transmission is Getrag 280 and the final drive is typ 210 3,73 with a 40% lsd.

Here's the engine set up, didn't have any pictures of it on this laptop. I'll ad them later.

'85 M88/3 out of an '85 m5
new original pistons
280 degree schrick cams
s38b38 valves
s38b38 throttle bodies
custom carbon intake
Megasquirt 3.1
full Supersprint exhaust
a lot of minor modifications

dynoed 352 hp, I've got even better results, but that 352 is from a dyno that is widely known realistic here in Finland.

And the coupe:

'86 body, burgund rot metallic (199)
repainted in 2010, partly again last winter due to an accident in my garage
black leather sport seats
Bilstein Sprint -shocks around and H&R -30mm springs
e34 m5 brakes
a set of 3 piece quality alloys (at the moment BBS RF 8,5x17 + 10x17)

It has gone through a total rebuild so those above are the main bits.

Happening this winter:
BMW performance brakes, rear done, front waiting for inspiration.
Lowtec coilovers
Also wheels will change to 18" due to new brakes. Those 6 piston Brembo calipers won't fit inside 17" in the front.

And finally the poor pictures, the latest are from last july. There's two feet of snow outside and more is coming at the moment so newer pictures won't come before april.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/90857682@N04/

bgo · Post by **bgo** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:10 pm

Hi mate,

very nice shark you got there!

We should meet up one day,I am also in the capitol area!

Not that many E24s around in this country anyway...

mikko · Post by **mikko** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:21 pm

Mik? ettei.

I simplified a bit since we're on an international forum, but I live just outside Helsinki as well in Leps?m? to be precise. Entinen stadilainen.

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:26 pm

Very nice car there. Love the 6pot brake upgrade.

I bet with the bigger cams, carbon intake, etc it will sound pretty angry and with 352rwhp it would go rather well.

Some video will b Orsome.

There is so much headroom to upgrade the m88/3. Did undo any head work/larger valves/ compression etc. Also what rpm do u spin it to now.

kronus · Post by **kronus** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:53 pm

This is.. perfect. Well done!

winfred · Post by **winfred** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:49 am

curious about the b38 throttles, direct bolt up or port work needed? same size throat or bigger? i too am sporting a 86 635 with a m88/3 but i am running motronic 3.3.1 (like but not same as s38b38) instead of MS, i may do cams in future but want to finish tuning what i have now before jumping the gun

mikko · Post by **mikko** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:08 am

GazM3 wrote:Very nice car there. Love the 6pot brake upgrade.

I bet with the bigger cams, carbon intake, etc it will sound pretty angry and with 352rwhp it would go rather well.

Some video will b Orsome.

There is so much headroom to upgrade the m88/3. Did undo any head work/larger valves/ compression etc. Also what rpm do u spin it to now.

The head was slightly ported and blueprinted. The limiter is now set at 7600 rpm. That 352 comes out at 7300 and the max torque 360 nm at 5600. The engine pumps out 300 nm almost at idle (1050 rpm). That's the thing I love about the motor, it is always at the range.

I'll try to find the latest dyno sheet and post it here.

///Moe · Post by **///Moe** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:41 am

Nice car with a really nice engine!

Looking forward to see more pictures.

GripGreg · Post by **GripGreg** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:27 am

Other than Kastienerot, this color weakens me!!! Just magnificent!!!

bgo · Post by **bgo** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:04 am

Mikko,I have seen many quality issues with LOWTECH coilovers.
Can not recommend them at all.

The BMW Performance brake kit is good,I use them often on E39 M5s.
On those cars I can still use 17" winter wheels(style66),so maybe you can still use your 17" wheels...
Good stuff,but the calipers are very heavy.

mikko · Post by **mikko** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:28 am

I thought I'd give lowtec a chance. I got them very cheep. The wheel issue is still open, on a quick measurement there's around 2-3 mm of space between the caliper and the 17 inch BBS RF. Inside the 17" Schnitzer typII the calipers don't fit.

bgo · Post by **bgo** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:40 pm

mikko wrote:I thought I'd give lowtec a chance. I got them very cheep. The wheel issue is still open, on a quick measurement there's around 2-3 mm of space between the caliper and the 17 inch BBS RF. Inside the 17" Schnitzer typII the calipers don't fit.

Do you have brackets for the calipers yet?

Wonder if I even find my E24s again if it keeps on snowing like this

ericono · Post by **ericono** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:53 am

Please post pics of your engine and more details on the modifications you made. That is a very nice looking car you have there!

Thanks,

Eric

ericono · Post by **ericono** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:08 am

Double post for some reason...

Eric

mikko · Post by **mikko** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:57 am

The engine in a nutshell:

Carbon intake manifold, no MAF
B38 throttle bodies
Megasquirt'n'spark 3.1 ecu
sylinder head ported and blueprinted
Schrick cams
S38 timing and valve train
Supersprint exhaust
custom steel flywheel, weight 6,8 kg ~15 lbs
smaller mods, mainly done because of the megasquirt and carbon intake: expansion tank on the other side of the engine, the steering oil carrier is where the battery used to be, battery in the trunk etc.

I took the throttle bodies off a week ago, I'll take some photos when everything is reassembled.

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:33 am

Sounds like a nice setup. How does the megasquirt run and is it plug and play for our engine. Im looking at some stage running no airflow meter.

I'm also looking in the near future of installing slotted cam wheels to dial in the cams properly to optimize them. There is no way from the factory that they will be in the correct position.

It must be Orsome to drive. Not for the power itself but the way the m88/s38 delivers the power. No silly traction control to get in the way either.

mikko · Post by **mikko** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:41 pm

Far from plug and play. The biggest problem with a standard m88 is triggering from the flywheel. The best solution for that is using the vibration damper from an s38b36. It has a 60-2 triggering. The other harware mods are: more accurate throttle valve switch, intake air sensor and wideband lambda sensor.

ericono · Post by **ericono** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:01 pm

That is an awesome setup. I hate to trouble you, but could you give a more detailed DIY for everything you did to that engine, especially how you got the Megasquirt running and the custom intake. I'm like Gaz and have thought about running some sort of aftermarket fuel system with no AFM or MAF.

Thanks again,

Eric

mikko · Post by **mikko** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:50 pm

I strongly suggest to familiarize to Megasquirt, if already not, e.g. here: http://www.msextra.com/

mikko · Post by **mikko** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:32 pm

Summer at it's best:

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:27 pm

She's looking nice there. It must be great when summer comes as you can take these beauties it to play.

jps635 · Post by **jps635** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:06 am

Gaz, forgive me for asking as I recall this has cropped up before. Don't you have a M3 running Link? Curious as to why you wouldn't also use on the 6.

I'm getting closer to doing mine.......a few more $. Have a new intake built and have been doing some homework with a guy who has fitted to a Porsche 993, which also runs early Motronic. Main issue as far as i can tell is there is not a lot of experience about in mapping these early systems.

Still, think is best solution here in NZ

Chris

m6dave · Post by **m6dave** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:54 am

There are so many ecus out there these days. We have set up EMS, Link, Microtech, DTA fast, Vi-pec and the latest is Megasquirt on various competition vehicles. The Megasquirt is a very under rated product and is very powerful and configurable but is not suited to people without good knowledge of efi systems and how to set them up. The E34 60-2 trigger wheel is definitely the way to go when fitting aftermarket systems to an M88. The other way to approach it is use the Miller War chip.

GazM3 · Post by **GazM3** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:45 pm

Yes we are spoilt for options.
The miller apparently has some good off the shelf program's for the m88 but it seems the big downside is u can't tune in real time and u are limited to a maf air metering device.
I'm planning in making a much larger fiberglass plenum for the m88 or even deleting the plenum altogether. Initially ill make the plenum with a 100mm dia intake pipe and run a silicon reducer to the factory airflow meter to see how it goes.
The idea for a mega squirt appeals as I could market it as a semi plug and play for people who want to unlock the power to these engines. Looks like ill need to convert to e34 m30 injection setup where ill need variable TPS the 60-2 trigger wheel and probably an exhaust analysis sensor. Not sure if the m88 idle control will work.

How closely related is the 059 computer to the 055. It seems that over at mye28 many are running the mega squirt on their turbo cars.

Geez I feel like I am hijacking this thread.
Yes I run the link ecu but it needs to do much more. E85, 1000cc/min inj and dual vanos are a few levels up on the m88. I may do the numbers and there is big advantages in resolution and refinement going something like a link / haltech management where still keeping costs reasonable.

m6dave · Post by **m6dave** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:00 am

The problem with ITB NA set ups is how to accurately measure airflow. Any kind of MAP sensor will give poor results at small throttle openings due to the pulsing air pressure. You can use pure TPS or Alpha n as some people call it, this is ok for a motorsports application but fuel economy is out the window in cruise mode. This just leaves MAF which is a good all round compromise except for the inlet restriction. I think the best result is to use a MAF but use a hot wire type rather that a vane type and make it a big one. The 60-2 trigger wheel will successfully trigger most after market ECUs otherwise you could loose the distributor and go to individual coil packs and set up a trigger in the distributor drive.

So many options, what to do? I think you need to decide on expected power output first, then what budget is available, what tuning facilities you have access to and the answer will become clear.