My henna 84
Moderators: GRNSHRK, ron, bfons
Re: My henna 84
Since the ITBs are at the machine shop being converted to Shaftless I needed to take them apart. While there, I couldn't leave all the peripheral parts as they were.. SO I broke my fingers sanding, grinding with a file, polishing and voila... I never want to do that again..I must of used every attachment for my dremmel tool I had! I polished everything so that the cad coating will come out nicer..
The second pic is the pieces that didn't want to come apart easily and unfortunately broke... I have new Rod ends on order from Aurora since the Germans at Hirschmann took their sweet time..
The second pic is the pieces that didn't want to come apart easily and unfortunately broke... I have new Rod ends on order from Aurora since the Germans at Hirschmann took their sweet time..
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Transition between ITB and new plenum
The piece shown here is purely for fitment check but will hopefully be good and final design for the eventual pieces.
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Printed Carbon variable ITB's
Finally, after much trial and error, we got the pieces printed correctly. Between having to dry the spools and adjusting the feed rates it was a challenge. The 3D printing world is still in discovery mode..
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
Wow. You have such dedication to this ambitious project ! Kudos Sir.
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
Re: My henna 84
No problem. I forgot to ask my question. You are going to use an E46M3 throttle actuator to operate the variable horns ? If so, have you worked out the signals because the E46M3 unit operates substantially through the ECU. The reason I ask is that I was at one stage thinking of adapting an E46M3 actuator to operate the ITBs on my S38B36. However, the more I looked into it the more complicated it seemed.
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
Re: My henna 84
In order to make the M3 motor work you need either a standalone or custom built simple electronics box. I may be mistaken but the E46 also has limp mode as well as other motor nannies, which the ECU controls through this motor. Not necessary for us of course. Although it would have been very easy to use the OEM BMW motor, I don't want to use it because its very heavy (cheap but heavy.) I am now looking for an industrial strength stepper motor that can handle the duties as well as react in milliseconds. I am using an Emtron KV-8 or all those needs. I chose the Emtron because they dont try to sell you more firmware upgrades like Motec does and the cost was very very low for such a capable fully programmable motorsport ECU. https://emtronaustralia.com.aubaders wrote: ↑Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:21 am No problem. I forgot to ask my question. You are going to use an E46M3 throttle actuator to operate the variable horns ? If so, have you worked out the signals because the E46M3 unit operates substantially through the ECU. The reason I ask is that I was at one stage thinking of adapting an E46M3 actuator to operate the ITBs on my S38B36. However, the more I looked into it the more complicated it seemed.
As you can see they are australian and the more I look into custom programming the more I discover how amazing this ECU is. Sneak peak... I am employing an early ATE Mk-60 abs unit from the M3 (early units when BMW didn't have its DCS and ABS programing locked in yet are fully programable.) I will use the OEM Yaw sensor as well as the steering wheel position sensor and have full BMW DSC as well as launch and traction control all running through the Emtron. Give Emtron a call and ask them for a good tuner in your area. If you plan on tuning the car at any point the unit will surely complement all your plans.
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
Awesome. Make sure to keep us updated about this project !
I was going to look at aftermarket ECU control for my S38B36 but am sticking with OEM dizzy and good ole Motronic 1.3 for now. Maybe down the track. It's been such a long running project that I just want to drive it :)
So if I understand correctly, the Emtron has output for stepper motor control linked to a throttle input ?
I was going to look at aftermarket ECU control for my S38B36 but am sticking with OEM dizzy and good ole Motronic 1.3 for now. Maybe down the track. It's been such a long running project that I just want to drive it :)
So if I understand correctly, the Emtron has output for stepper motor control linked to a throttle input ?
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
Re: My henna 84
Emtron has an output that can control a stepper motor, I need to have a position sensor on the motor. What I'll be using it for is the actuation of the intake movement, NOT the opening and closing of the throttles. The intakes will lengthen and shorten bu about 3 inches between 2000-5000 rpm then come off the plenum back plate above that to redline to shorten the stack to about 2.5" (from the butterfly.)
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
Yes I understand. I was more referring to my line of thought for my car ie. eventual aftermarket ECU and electronic throttle control. I really look forward to your progress.
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
Re: My henna 84
I meant to cover that initially, then got lost in my own world. The S54 throttle body motor will work very easily with an Emtron. Its the reason I was encouraged to use one for the movement in the first place. Thanks for the encouragement!
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
I needed to start mocking things up. too many components that I am trying to cram in a small space to make room for a big plenum.
The first thing...I traced the outline of the original plenum and propped it to see if the elbow design was working out. I oversized it by a little in order to create as much space as I can. It is proven that at 8x the engine capacity the supercharging effect is higher and more effective. There is only room for a total width of about 7.5" from fender side to elbows. So far I'm at 8.1 X. I may be able to squeeze more but I don't want fitment issues.
I also bought an E46 heater valve and need to work out routing the return line.. I bought a gates hose that twists and turns, but I don't think it will work out.
The first thing...I traced the outline of the original plenum and propped it to see if the elbow design was working out. I oversized it by a little in order to create as much space as I can. It is proven that at 8x the engine capacity the supercharging effect is higher and more effective. There is only room for a total width of about 7.5" from fender side to elbows. So far I'm at 8.1 X. I may be able to squeeze more but I don't want fitment issues.
I also bought an E46 heater valve and need to work out routing the return line.. I bought a gates hose that twists and turns, but I don't think it will work out.
Last edited by TBM on Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
Continued..
- Attachments
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- Cut old ABS braket out .JPG (1.17 MiB) Viewed 14479 times
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
Small Update:
I was going to hide the LS7 coils right in front of where the distributor normally sits I will be using a CPS. In fact, all six coils would have fit inside a slightly revised OEM plastic cover so it all looked OEM.... But then I decided to spread the weight as much as possible for handling balance. Ultimately I want to use COP from a GT-R as they are very robust, but they cost a lot and I can make these brackets with a waterjet from the Titanium plate I have. So this will have to do for now. The brackets will be on the standoffs from the original wires and on new ones off the first row of fasteners for the valve cover...
I was going to hide the LS7 coils right in front of where the distributor normally sits I will be using a CPS. In fact, all six coils would have fit inside a slightly revised OEM plastic cover so it all looked OEM.... But then I decided to spread the weight as much as possible for handling balance. Ultimately I want to use COP from a GT-R as they are very robust, but they cost a lot and I can make these brackets with a waterjet from the Titanium plate I have. So this will have to do for now. The brackets will be on the standoffs from the original wires and on new ones off the first row of fasteners for the valve cover...
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
Since I've had time off of work and been able to loaf a little I have concentrated on the CAD that I need in order to make the plenum a reality. This is still rough but getting there.. I am not a pro and have had to watch a lot of videos to get this far.. I'm liking Fusion 360 a lot!
The shots show the plenum split into three pieces so far. I am splitting the main section into tow because it will need access to the ITB's so that the entire piece doesn't need to be taken out in case there is some servicing needed in the future. I am planing on making the collar just like the BMW piece in the last pic. It will be made of Aluminum as well. There will be an internal tube running the length of the plenum along the bottom "front" (looking from the drivers side fender) with a slat that will measure the same opening as the radius initially coming into the plenum. That is in order try and distribute air equally amongst all cylinders. This concept was taken from the Jenvey plenum design. We shall see how it all works out. Nice thing is I can model it all on CAD and tweak there.
The shots show the plenum split into three pieces so far. I am splitting the main section into tow because it will need access to the ITB's so that the entire piece doesn't need to be taken out in case there is some servicing needed in the future. I am planing on making the collar just like the BMW piece in the last pic. It will be made of Aluminum as well. There will be an internal tube running the length of the plenum along the bottom "front" (looking from the drivers side fender) with a slat that will measure the same opening as the radius initially coming into the plenum. That is in order try and distribute air equally amongst all cylinders. This concept was taken from the Jenvey plenum design. We shall see how it all works out. Nice thing is I can model it all on CAD and tweak there.
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
Continued
- Attachments
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- Jenvey Distributor .jpg (8.58 KiB) Viewed 14283 times
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
More updates.. I'm certainly not trained as a CAD guy.. But I refuse to give up. Here are a few more shots of the concept Manifold I want to incorporate into the plenum.. Its not correct in many ways but gives an idea of what I would like to achieve..
I'm always open to comments and questions of course! I know it sticks out and thats ok.. I have room for that and it should be integrated that way so that the manifold takes the least amount of space in the Plenum as possible while doing its job...
I'm always open to comments and questions of course! I know it sticks out and thats ok.. I have room for that and it should be integrated that way so that the manifold takes the least amount of space in the Plenum as possible while doing its job...
Last edited by TBM on Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
OK... Managed to learn a little more between last night and today and get really close to what I intended to make..
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
Like your work. Let’s hope there is some benifits in the revised plenum
BMW’s
84 E24 M635csi
90 E34 M5 3.6
94 E34 540i/6 SC E85
97 E36 M3 euro SC U/C
97 Z3 2.8 widebody
OTHERS
11 Audi S5 3.0 SC
19 VW Amarok V6
84 E24 M635csi
90 E34 M5 3.6
94 E34 540i/6 SC E85
97 E36 M3 euro SC U/C
97 Z3 2.8 widebody
OTHERS
11 Audi S5 3.0 SC
19 VW Amarok V6
Re: My henna 84
Thanks...
It's complex and needs lots of tuning... But I didn't look for easy.. I didn't want to just bolt on parts that someone else said work..
The final result will be a culmination of many details.. The M88/S38 a great motor with great potential..
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
Yep, wonderfully detailed work !
What coils were you looking at using ?
What coils were you looking at using ?
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers / CMP RACP reinforcement
Re: My henna 84
Thank you for the compliment.
The coils are GM Type LS coils. As explained earlier, I wanted to start with something more affordable and simple to get anywhere here in the US. In the future I will customize a rail down the middle of the valve cover and hopefully be able to use GT-R COP coils like the pic below.
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)
Re: My henna 84
As always, some kick ass work going on here. I do have a few questions. Not clear on the tube in the plenum. Is the outside air coming into the plenum from the bottom and therefore going through the tube first in an effort to evenly fill the plenum and therefore evenly supply air to every cylinder or is the tube performing some other function? Are you getting rid of the AFM or MAF and running an Alpha N setup (sorry if you already said this earlier)?
Also, you may have already answered this but I forgot, does the early Mk60 run completely standalone or does it need to integrate with the Emtron to perform properly?
Thanks again for sharing, I love following the progress.
Eric
Also, you may have already answered this but I forgot, does the early Mk60 run completely standalone or does it need to integrate with the Emtron to perform properly?
Thanks again for sharing, I love following the progress.
Eric
'85 M635, '00 528iT, '98 Z3