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Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

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Da_Hose
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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by Da_Hose » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:38 pm

Hey, Song.

That is the right critter and it will make your life SO much easier.

Jose
1987 M6 - My dream car

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by dwcains » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:45 pm

songzunhuang wrote:
Hey thanks for the tip. I picked this up on eBay a minute ago. http://www.ebay.com/itm/262613072416
It looks to be an E30 AC lower bracket. I hope it makes it as easy to adjust my compressor as it did for you.
Song,

If you find this piece doesn't mate up with the bracket bolted to your engine block, let me know, as I have a spare buried somewhere and you're welcome to it.
Dean
Lutz, FL

'85 635 CSi Euro #9402254
'87 Spider Veloce
'92 Spider Veloce
'08 350Z

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:05 pm

dwcains wrote:
songzunhuang wrote:
Hey thanks for the tip. I picked this up on eBay a minute ago. http://www.ebay.com/itm/262613072416
It looks to be an E30 AC lower bracket. I hope it makes it as easy to adjust my compressor as it did for you.
Song,

If you find this piece doesn't mate up with the bracket bolted to your engine block, let me know, as I have a spare buried somewhere and you're welcome to it.
Thanks Dean,

I'll slowly collect all the pieces over the winter for this Spring project. I was wondering about the top mount on my car. With the lower being replaced by an adjustable mount, my top mount is in question. You see, the bottom was my pivot point before and my top was adjustable. In any case, I got an adapter for a Sanden type compressor from Ralph and I am studying up... Thanks.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:36 pm

Da_Hose wrote:Hey, Song.

That is the right critter and it will make your life SO much easier.

Jose
Jose, did you ever goto a parallel flow condenser on your system? If so, which did you end up with?
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by sansouci » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:55 am

Somewhere I saw a part number for the Sanden compressor from Summit Racing but cannot find it. VT something. Can anyone recall what the right twin pulley unit to use?
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by dwcains » Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:35 am

The Sanden 508 (or clones) are the easiest to work with and there are a few ways to mount them. Easy to find for ~$125 or so. Here's the one I installed:

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Dean
Lutz, FL

'85 635 CSi Euro #9402254
'87 Spider Veloce
'92 Spider Veloce
'08 350Z

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635911
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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by 635911 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:11 pm

Hi All,

This is a small review and a large thank you.

Living in Sydney, it's just become summer. Hot and very humid at the moment.

I have had my '86 for five months, and after tons of research on this thread and elsewhere, I went for a pretty comprehensive A/C rebuild;
New Sanden (real) compressor plus brackets from the forum
New 16 x 19 parallel flow condenser
New (oem) receiver dryer
New pressure switch
New soft lines
New Tx valve
Reused hard lines, Evaporator (but removed, flushed) and aux fan.
Re did seals in the airbox etc.

It now works absolutely brilliantly subject to a couple of comments;

The air flow through the evaporator system is never going to be enough.
The crank pulley could be larger (to get decent compressor speed in traffic/idle situations).
You could easily get a larger condenser on the car, but not sure it would help without more compressor speed.

But sooo good to have this much air!

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the knowledge to let me get this done to my car. I really appreciate being able to get into a new make/model, and be able to diagnose and fix with centuries of combined wisdom to draw upon.

Cheers,

Toby
1986 635 CSi Lapis Blau with Anthrazit buffalo
1988 911 3.2 231HP Grand Prix white (Sold - 13 years of Zuffenhausen fun))
1984 BMW R80 G/S Dunkel Blau
1982 Yamaha SR500 scrambler

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by slofut » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:04 am

Hi Toby,
Thanks for the input. What did you do for new seals in the airbox housing, order factory bits (are they available)? How did you connect the new hoses to the old hard lines? Or you made new rubber hoses complete? Your success is encouraging.
Bill
'87 635csi, 5sp man, dk blu on pearl beige
'88 635csi, auto, black on grey
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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by songzunhuang » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:00 am

slofut wrote:Hi Toby,
Thanks for the input. What did you do for new seals in the airbox housing, order factory bits (are they available)? How did you connect the new hoses to the old hard lines? Or you made new rubber hoses complete? Your success is encouraging.
Bill
Yes your success is encouraging. I am starting slowly down this route. I am collecting parts and will attack this when it is summer here on the west coast of the USA.

If you have details of the parts you bought or pictures, that would be really great. :o
-----
Song Huang
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Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by 635911 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:14 am

Hi Guys,

The seals were made up by me from a bunch of different sized adhesive backed draft seal material from the hardware store. I dont think they are perfect, but way ahead of the crumbled mess that was there. The soft lines were built completely. One fitting was cut and welded to suit.

Song, the Compressor is genuine Sanden. the model is the latest version of the 508 (514??). The Condenser is a USD 50 unit, 16 x 19 PF from a store on ebay. TX valve, switch, dryer from Pelican.

Fabricated mounts for the condenser and fan from the condenser mounting kit supplied.

Strangely, it seems to be getting even better. Do compressors need to "run in"?

Toby
1986 635 CSi Lapis Blau with Anthrazit buffalo
1988 911 3.2 231HP Grand Prix white (Sold - 13 years of Zuffenhausen fun))
1984 BMW R80 G/S Dunkel Blau
1982 Yamaha SR500 scrambler

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by songzunhuang » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:57 am

635911 wrote:Hi Guys,

The seals were made up by me from a bunch of different sized adhesive backed draft seal material from the hardware store. I dont think they are perfect, but way ahead of the crumbled mess that was there. The soft lines were built completely. One fitting was cut and welded to suit.

Song, the Compressor is genuine Sanden. the model is the latest version of the 508 (514??). The Condenser is a USD 50 unit, 16 x 19 PF from a store on ebay. TX valve, switch, dryer from Pelican.

Fabricated mounts for the condenser and fan from the condenser mounting kit supplied.

Strangely, it seems to be getting even better. Do compressors need to "run in"?

Toby
Thanks for the info. I have ordered a 16" x 19" parallel flow condenser from eBay. Perhaps it's the same seller as yours, but mine was closer to $60. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/351290523682?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT)

The next steps are to figure out the hoses and connectors. I think I'll look into the TX valve, switch and dryer from Pelican as well. By the way, stupid question, which switch are we talking about?
-----
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Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by 635911 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:04 pm

Hi Song,

The switch is the pressure switch on the receiver dryer. Cuts system if over or under pressure.

BTW it's really hot (over 100F) and humid here now, and the system is working well, so long as I can keep some revs on (just using lower gear in traffic etc)

Cheers,

Toby
1986 635 CSi Lapis Blau with Anthrazit buffalo
1988 911 3.2 231HP Grand Prix white (Sold - 13 years of Zuffenhausen fun))
1984 BMW R80 G/S Dunkel Blau
1982 Yamaha SR500 scrambler

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by Bellwoods » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:52 am

Anybody know if the threaded fittings on the low- and high-pressure (fill / recharge) ports on an all orginal E24 with an R12 system are "standard" sizes? I mean will standard north american gauge sets mate with these or are some special metric adapters required?

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by dwcains » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:51 am

My '85 is a Euro-market car, and my US-standard gauge set fits. I can't promise the hard lines are original (the rubber sections have been renewed), but they appear to be. I don't recall ever seeing metric A/C fittings, and my 2 Alfa's have US-standard threads, too.
Dean
Lutz, FL

'85 635 CSi Euro #9402254
'87 Spider Veloce
'92 Spider Veloce
'08 350Z

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by imissedtheapex » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:29 am

Can we update these posts with non-photobucket hosted pix? this thread is essential to the survival of our cars IMO and would be great to see the pictures instead of Photobucket's lame notice about upgrading your service lol

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by sansouci » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:32 pm

Dean
Your pic of the compressor shows a rear port version. They also make a top port only version. Which is preferable since there is so little room to wrench around it for the install.
--Ken
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by sansouci » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:03 pm

Sanden has some educational materials on their website

http://www.sanden.com/objects/3%20-%20T ... Web_01.pdf

I am also a little confused (what's new about that?) as we seem to focus on the SD508 and clones. According to Sanden the 508 is for R-12 while the SD5H14 is for R-134a
Maybe it is just a design optimization solution for the newer refrigerant. But could it be the seals to ensure longevity?

Ah!
Sanden has a discussion:
http://www.sanden.com/objects/retro.pdf
Last edited by sansouci on Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by dwcains » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:18 pm

sansouci wrote:Dean
Your pic of the compressor shows a rear port version. They also make a top port only version. Which is preferable since there is so little room to wrench around it for the install.
--Ken
Those small ports on the back of he compressor can be used for charging, but i just used the charging ports of the car's hardlines to hook up my gauges. They're not really in the way, and some compressors have them, others don't. Just as long s the hose ports are in the right place, it's not a problem, and Sanden allows the hoses to be in any position but strainght down.
Dean
Lutz, FL

'85 635 CSi Euro #9402254
'87 Spider Veloce
'92 Spider Veloce
'08 350Z

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by sansouci » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:22 pm

dwcains wrote:
sansouci wrote:Dean
Your pic of the compressor shows a rear port version. They also make a top port only version. Which is preferable since there is so little room to wrench around it for the install.
--Ken
Those small ports on the back of he compressor can be used for charging, but i just used the charging ports of the car's hardlines to hook up my gauges. They're not really in the way, and some compressors have them, others don't. Just as long s the hose ports are in the right place, it's not a problem, and Sanden allows the hoses to be in any position but straight down.
So your suction and HP lines are connected to the top ports?
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by dwcains » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:09 am

Exactly - those ports on the rear aren't the right sizes for the hoses. I've never taken the caps off, but they look to have Schrader valves for charging/gauges. Here's a picture which shows the rear of the compressor more clearly:

Image
Dean
Lutz, FL

'85 635 CSi Euro #9402254
'87 Spider Veloce
'92 Spider Veloce
'08 350Z

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by Da_Hose » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:08 am

Hey everyone, I have an update for this thread. I have completed installation of my new 16"X19"condenser, and have pics. to share.

First, I used the mounting plates that came with the condenser and located it so I could test fit everything as I went.

Image

Next, I bought some thick L-brackets, and made the two upper mounting brackets.

Image

The brackets held on the condenser beautifully. Here is what they looked like after paint.

Image

Image

Image

Image


Next thing to figure out was the return hose. The stock hose is part metal, and the angle on the head is really severe, due to where the drier sits. I tested with some Aeroquip fittings, but decided my best option would be to try and re-use the existing metal hose, with the end piece of an Aeroquip fitting. I didn't get a good picture of the separate pieces before I assembled them, but here is what it looked like when done.

Image

I assembled the two pieces by cutting the threads off of an Aeroquip quick-clip bulkhead fitting, and cutting the hose and crimp ring sections off the existing metal tubing. Then I crammed the end of the metal tubing into the metal Aeroquip fitting, and used some flux covered bronze brazing rod to attach them. The heat source was a BernzOmatic MAPP torch.

This shows how tight the angle at the drier is. You can also see that since the hose was pre-bent, I could use the original routing holes.

Image

Image

At the condenser, I decided to use a 90 degree angle at the supply connector to be sure I didn't run short on space. I hunted for the most compact 90-degree connector I could find, and it worked great with the existing #10 supply hose I made a while back.

Image

Image

Image

I had a nice little stroke of luck for the return hose. As noted earlier in this thread, I bought a kit many moons ago to make my own barrier hoses. The kit came with a LOOOONG #8 hose fitted with a 90 degree connector I couldn't use at the time. Turned out it was EXACTLY what I needed for the return hose, so I used it with the connector I brazed.

Image

The final fit of the condenser is GREAT!!!

Image

Image

The last thing to put on was the fan. I used some aluminum L-channel, and leftover pieces of the mounting plates that came with the condenser to create a bottom support that was strong enough to hold the fan up. Since that bracket would take the downward weight, I just used a Derale fan mounting kit (the zip-strips that go through the condenser) to solidly attach the fan to the condenser body.

Image

Image

Once painted and fitted, it looks almost OEM.

Image

I also took the time to open up the regulator since the system was degassed. There was no crud inside, so I just put it back together again.

Image

Image

Once it was all back together, the system held vacuum for several hours. Since everything looked good to go, I gassed it back up, and put all the AC tools away. I still need to finish the fan wiring. Right now it's wired so the fan turns on with the ignition. I need to have it trigger by a temp sensor instead. I am also in the middle of a head rebuild. Once the old girl is up and running again, I will update this thread with feedback on how the new condenser performs.

Jose
1987 M6 - My dream car

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by sansouci » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:08 am

Since Dean is no longer with us, is it possible to restore/repost his pictures?
--Ken
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
71 240Z 4-speed White/Blue (rusty & sold)
65 396 Chevelle 4-speed, Marina Blue/Black (stolen)

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by Da_Hose » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:54 am

I don't see which of Dean's posts had pictures on them. Where are they in the thread?

Jose
1987 M6 - My dream car

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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by baders » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:33 am

Couple of pages have defunct image links. Looking at the HTML code for Dean's posts show he was using Smugmug for image hosting. Perhaps an approach to them might yield some results ?

Damn shame he has gone :(

https://www.smugmug.com/
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Re: Air conditionin function overview and retrofit/repair thread

Post by gskrills » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:49 pm

I did a full rebuild on my 1989 Dual A/C system last year and it's still working perfectly. Here is a link to the build log on bimmerforums https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/show ... ebuild-log

Let me know if you have any questions or want more pictures.

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