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1984 633CSi Rises again!

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sansouci
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by sansouci » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:29 pm

I was quoted for a full repaint, glass out in Bronzit of $10,000 for labor (including some body and rust repair work) plus $5,000 for materials and $5,000 for misc. parts. I would never consider DIY on painting, especially primer, base and clears. This was not from your typical body shop but a restoration specialist with a lot of show-quality cars in the house.
--Ken
Last edited by sansouci on Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:39 am

sansouci wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:29 pm
I was quoted for a full repaint, glass out in Bronzit of $10,000 for labor (including some body and rust repair work) plus $5,000 for materials. I would never consider DIY on painting, especially primer, base and clears. This was not from your typical body shop but a restoration specialist with a lot of show-quality cars in the house.
--Ken
Hey, but even that talented painter had to start somewhere! I've always been fascinated by this stuff and I sprayed my 1970 Mustang in high school. It was single stage enamel and the paint job kind of sucked, but I learned. Lol! The next time was a 1972 Pantera, but I left that to the pros. That was a $7,000 paint job back in 1998. I've done various panels with rattle cans that turned out ok, but the paint quality was always bad and didn't last. So now we move up to the good stuff.

I'm going for it! Besides, for about the same price as the shop, I'll have all the equipment and a mountain of experience and knowledge. What's the worst that could happen? I screw it up and take it to a shop. I can live with that.

In any case, I'll full document my adventure here.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by TBM » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:55 am

songzunhuang wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:39 am
sansouci wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:29 pm
I was quoted for a full repaint, glass out in Bronzit of $10,000 for labor (including some body and rust repair work) plus $5,000 for materials. I would never consider DIY on painting, especially primer, base and clears. This was not from your typical body shop but a restoration specialist with a lot of show-quality cars in the house.
--Ken
Hey, but even that talented painter had to start somewhere! I've always been fascinated by this stuff and I sprayed my 1970 Mustang in high school. It was single stage enamel and the paint job kind of sucked, but I learned. Lol! The next time was a 1972 Pantera, but I left that to the pros. That was a $7,000 paint job back in 1998. I've done various panels with rattle cans that turned out ok, but the paint quality was always bad and didn't last. So now we move up to the good stuff.

I'm going for it! Besides, for about the same price as the shop, I'll have all the equipment and a mountain of experience and knowledge. What's the worst that could happen? I screw it up and take it to a shop. I can live with that.

In any case, I'll full document my adventure here.
That's the way to tackle something new! Love to see how you do... But I do think you need to ask knowledgable people (internet) critical steps to insure you succeed.

After its done I'm driving mine up for a refresh..LOL
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by zinnocoupe » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:20 am

Song, I think its great you are going to do your own painting. When I bought my car the PO had hit a curb with spoiler and the paint was cracked and peeling off the plastic spoiler. I bought about 10 different cans of red and found a match. A few coats and it looked good. For a while, then it started to peel a bit. Then I hit a racoon on the other side of the spoiler. So need to start again. I’ll be watching to see how you do. I also have spoiler for my e12 that needs paint.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by masonjones » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:56 am

zinnocoupe wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:20 am
Song, I think its great you are going to do your own painting. When I bought my car the PO had hit a curb with spoiler and the paint was cracked and peeling off the plastic spoiler. I bought about 10 different cans of red and found a match. A few coats and it looked good. For a while, then it started to peel a bit. Then I hit a racoon on the other side of the spoiler. So need to start again. I’ll be watching to see how you do. I also have spoiler for my e12 that needs paint.
What ended up matching the zinnoberrot? I have a white valance/air dam sitting in the garage that I need to paint red. My car is actually about 5 different shades of red so I'll have to pick one to match it to. :roll:

The valance is perfect, never damaged so I'm afraid to even put it on the car because I know I'll crush it on something the first day out.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by Ralph in Socal » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:30 am

Song is Patiently Motivated. Amazing attributes to add to his daring "Get it Done" attitude. As with anything we do to maintain these cars (except for Laser Alignment), buying the tools and learning the DIY can sometimes be more economical then having a shop take care of it. Paint work has become outrageously expensive that I now shy away from cars needing a spray. In fact, selling off cars needing paint so I don't have to stress over any of it.

My best piece of advice is make sure you have a very good air filration system. You want clean, dry air for the sprayer.

I sold that spoiler to Song last year as it was the last one I had for sale and I really don't expect to see anymore come up at the scrap yards. He knew I didn't want to ship it so we made a long term arrangement for pickup/delivery when the time came up.

I want to know more about the 3M Epoxy Repair as I have my own spoiler to take care of. Thanks Song.

Ralph
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

85 635csi Zinno Auto
84 528i Euro
83 635 Euro Arktik
81 528i Kastanien 5-speed
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Garage Sprayed 2K Paint for Airdam

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:41 am

So after extensive study, I decided to use a LVLP (Low volume Low Pressure) gun to paint my airdam that I got from Ralph. You see, I have a smaller compressor and the LVLP only needed 25-40psi and 3.5cfm. Also, my understanding was that there is much less overspray with a LVLP gun. Cut to the chase, it worked out beautifully! Here's the story in pictures - it took me about 3.5hrs overall to get my air dam to "Like New" condition.

First, I noticed that the lower part of the car at the rear wasn't smooth, but had a bit of texture to it. I liked that idea as the lower parts of the car get beatup more and a texture would probably hide the chips and stuff better. Also, I wanted the airdam to match the other part of the car. As it turns out, I sprayed my hi-fill primer with a little less pressure and a smaller tip and it textured perfectly! Here's a picture to show you what I'm talking about. Also, I think it looks period correct.
Start 0.png
How do I achieve the texture of the lower panel?
Start 0.png (943.25 KiB) Viewed 1012 times

If you'll recall my air dam started out cracked and red. After filling the cracks and sanding all the chips and stuff smooth, I did a quick primer coats where the repairs were and sanded them until it was very smooth. Then, it was time to shoot 2 coats of hi-fill 2K primer. I waited the 5-15 minutes between flash coats as the instructions indicated. After that, I let it dry for 30 minutes and then went over the whole thing with 400 paper and then a tack rag.
Start1.png
It looking good and a lot less red already!
Start1.png (1.47 MiB) Viewed 1012 times

Next, I mixed up the color coat in the 1:1 ratio and changed to a 1.3mm tip. The color coat sprayed very well. It took 2 coats to get a good even coverage. Incidentally, I used a SprayIt 3300 spray gun for all of this. It's only $80 on Amazon. The kit comes with a main gun and a touch up gun as well as a pressure regulator. I then mixed up the clear at the 4:1 ratio. This clear went on really well and was easy to control due to the LVLP gun. I only got one slight run, but you'd have to study the paint very closely to spot it. Since this is a lower front airdam, no one will ever notice.
Start 2.png
Color and clear as well as the gun I used.
Start 2.png (1.47 MiB) Viewed 1012 times

So here's the completed part in the new Delphine Grey color. The match looks pretty good as I eyeball it. I'm going to leave it to dry in my garage for the week as I won't be able to get to this again until next weekend. It'll be exciting to get it installed! I've gained enough experience and confidence with this so that I can do my peeling roof later. This airdam was my "experiment"
Finished.png
Completed repair and color change.
Finished.png (1.67 MiB) Viewed 1012 times

I should mention that I shot this all in my garage without a paint booth. I simply vacuumed well, spray it down with water to get any loose dust and then went for it. The finish looks great and I don't see any dust in it at all! This catalyzed 2K paint dries quickly so I guess things don't have a chance to get stuck. Alright, that's what I did this weekend. Next week will be the installation.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:11 am

Ralph in Socal wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:30 am

My best piece of advice is make sure you have a very good air filration system. You want clean, dry air for the sprayer.

I sold that spoiler to Song last year as it was the last one I had for sale and I really don't expect to see anymore come up at the scrap yards. He knew I didn't want to ship it so we made a long term arrangement for pickup/delivery when the time came up.

I want to know more about the 3M Epoxy Repair as I have my own spoiler to take care of. Thanks Song.

Ralph
Ralph, I sent you a txt with the picture of the epoxy I used for the repair. I'm going to include it here in case people are trying to do the same thing. This was all of $5 on Amazon. They don't give you a whole lot, but there is enough for a smallish crack, about a foot of fiberglass netting and a small applicator.
Bondo.png
Bondo bumper repair kit.
Bondo.png (1.25 MiB) Viewed 1008 times
Here's the Spray gun kit I got. Ralph, I also got a moisture separator and a gun holder. All those accessories were lifesavers. I didn't have any issues with moisture getting into my lines at all.
SprayGun.png
SprayIt 3300 and 33500 LVLP gun kit.
SprayGun.png (1.13 MiB) Viewed 1008 times
Finally, here's a quick shot of my entire setup ion the garage. You can see the paint station on the left and the part on the right. Not fancy but very workable.
TheSetup.png
The Garage spray booth.
TheSetup.png (1.84 MiB) Viewed 1008 times
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by hornhospital » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:25 am

Are you sure that's LVLP, and not HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure)? Because that's the industry standard now. I've never heard of LVLP. The HVLP guns deliver more paint with very little overspray.
Ken Kanne
'84 633CSi "Sylvia"; '85 635CSi "Katja";'87 325is "Odette"; '93 325is "Elvira"; '95 M3 "Ashlyn"

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:29 pm

hornhospital wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:25 am
Are you sure that's LVLP, and not HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure)? Because that's the industry standard now. I've never heard of LVLP. The HVLP guns deliver more paint with very little overspray.
I am very sure. I struggled with the consideration of a HVLP gun for a long time. You see, my compressor is not so big. A HVLP needs 5-6cfm compressors to operate well. That means a 30 gallon or more tank for really good performance. My little compressor is only a 2.5gal and 3.5cfm at 90psi. It was mostly used for a nailgun and occasionally to fill up tires and such. It was working like crazy when I was spraying even at 25-28psi. Again, I wasn't doing a whole car so I figured it might be able to handle it. If I did more painting or had air tools, I'd upgrade. I just made it work.

Here's a link to the item on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C4 ... UTF8&psc=1
Last edited by songzunhuang on Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by Ralph in Socal » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:24 pm

Thanks for the details Song. A couple of pics to show the bracketry for the air dam. Hope this helps you.

Ralph
Airdam Brackets.JPG
Airdam Brackets.JPG (238.23 KiB) Viewed 985 times
Airdam Brackets2.JPG
Airdam Brackets2.JPG (231.65 KiB) Viewed 985 times
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

85 635csi Zinno Auto
84 528i Euro
83 635 Euro Arktik
81 528i Kastanien 5-speed
88 528e Bronzit (Granpa Car)
86 535i Auto (For Sale)
81 633 csi (retired)

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:35 pm

Ralph in Socal wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:24 pm
Thanks for the details Song. A couple of pics to show the bracketry for the air dam. Hope this helps you.

Ralph
Airdam Brackets.JPGAirdam Brackets2.JPG
Excellent Ralph! That's a lot of hardware to hold up some plastic! Lol.
With those pics, I'll be able to figure all this out I am sure. Many thanks as usual.
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by Jono B good » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:18 am

Wow! :shock: very cool man. Thank you for sharing. =D>
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Do the colors match?

Post by songzunhuang » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:20 pm

So it's been three days since I painted my front air dam. The paint appears to have cured quite well and I've inspected the air dam closely with a flashlight at night and there's not a single visible spec of dirt from the re-paint. I am shocked. I won't get put this on until the weekend, but in the morning I was dying to see how close the color match was going to be.

So I quickly placed the painted piece under the front of the car and snapped a picture. So far it looks pretty good.
Overall.png
That's going to look awesome.
Overall.png (1.51 MiB) Viewed 940 times
To get even a better idea, I placed the piece on the hood of the car so that I could see the color match side by side, without the front bumper as a separator. It still looks pretty good, although I can see a variation now.
Far.png
Color match of air dam still looks pretty good.
Far.png (1.76 MiB) Viewed 940 times
So I zoomed in on the airdam and the hood paint and now I can see that the newly painted part (top) is slightly darker than the hood.
(bottom)
Close.png
Going to be a bit of a tricky match job.
Close.png (1.79 MiB) Viewed 940 times
It's pretty close, but what's the big deal? I'm going to re-paint my roof and will have to blend it into the A and C pillars. The A-pillar I am not so worried about since it's so slim, but the C-Pillar will be a bit of a trick. I am busy carving out my plan of attack here. That basically means a bunch of web searches and YouTube videos all week. I can't wait to get all this done!
-----
Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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Align it - make it straight!

Post by songzunhuang » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:42 pm

In the three-plus years I've had my car, I've never had an alignment done. Goodness knows I've changed a lot of suspension pieces - like all of them. I came across a Living Social deal for a 4-wheel alignment for $55 and though, what the heck.

So here's my car getting its first alignment.
Screen Shot 2018-08-17 at 8.34.30 AM.png
The computer and laser rack to align my wheels.
Screen Shot 2018-08-17 at 8.34.30 AM.png (1.1 MiB) Viewed 910 times
Now, I know our cars don't really have rear alignment options, but what about the front? I was told that my caster is a bit off in that my right front is slightly ahead of my left front. That's weird? Here is the result sheet. The top is the "Before" and the bottom is the "After". Does anyone understand these readings?
Screen Shot 2018-08-17 at 8.39.36 AM.png
Results of my alignment
Screen Shot 2018-08-17 at 8.39.36 AM.png (1.56 MiB) Viewed 910 times
So, they made the front wheel toe point straight ahead and that's all they could do.
What are the options for additional adjustments? Which adjustment kits have people tried with good results? I noticed that my passenger side rear has more camber (leans in) than the driver side. Surely that's not normal?

Anyhow, looking for the collective wisdom of the group. Thanks.
-----
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1984 633CSi
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by Jono B good » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:04 pm

Some roads have a steep crown on one side to help with road drainage, this may explain why one side wore differently than the other, as for kits I don't know. One thing I learned whilst working in my buddies alignment shop as shop help, was that having new tires and keeping them rotated every time you do an oil change will prevent in uneven tire wear. Plus keeping the tire pressure up to spec as per the door sticker. I personally will be looking forward to having the TRX rims and stock set up ASAP. Because then it will be as how the Bavarian Motor Works engineers had designed our sharks to handle. I just got my alignment done today and she needs lots of parts I will be ordering OEM as much as possible from the BMW dealership. I want mine to be as stock as much as I can humanly afford. And yes TRX tire prices are un-human, but our cars were initially 80 grand USD! So there ya go, ya gotta pay to play. :shock:
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by hornhospital » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:28 am

If you've been driving on decent Imperial size tires, you'll likely be disappointed in the Metrics. Tire technology has advanced so far that even all season conventional radials will outperform the TRXs. I understand you wanting "as it came from the factory", but you're giving up quite a bit of grip for originality.
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'84 633CSi "Sylvia"; '85 635CSi "Katja";'87 325is "Odette"; '93 325is "Elvira"; '95 M3 "Ashlyn"

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by TBM » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:31 am

Jono B good wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:04 pm
Some roads have a steep crown on one side to help with road drainage, this may explain why one side wore differently than the other, as for kits I don't know. One thing I learned whilst working in my buddies alignment shop as shop help, was that having new tires and keeping them rotated every time you do an oil change will prevent in uneven tire wear. Plus keeping the tire pressure up to spec as per the door sticker. I personally will be looking forward to having the TRX rims and stock set up ASAP. Because then it will be as how the Bavarian Motor Works engineers had designed our sharks to handle. I just got my alignment done today and she needs lots of parts I will be ordering OEM as much as possible from the BMW dealership. I want mine to be as stock as much as I can humanly afford. And yes TRX tire prices are un-human, but our cars were initially 80 grand USD! So there ya go, ya gotta pay to play. :shock:
I'm not arguing with keeping things original... But current tech is far far better. of course even BMW has moved its tech on from those years.. So getting better tires and lighter forged rims (you can even keep them 16") will actually help the car perform far better than the factory intended.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by MrE » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:41 am

Awesome job Song. I've just caught up on the work you've been doing with the air dam and its very impressive. You've done a great job fixing it up and prepping it, and the finished paint looks outstanding. Great stuff, and thanks for sharing the progress.

The colour looks stunning too. Colour-match is good, texture is good, it look so rich when it's fresh & new.
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by Ralph in Socal » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:23 am

MrE wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:41 am
Awesome job Song. I've just caught up on the work you've been doing with the air dam and its very impressive. You've done a great job fixing it up and prepping it, and the finished paint looks outstanding. Great stuff, and thanks for sharing the progress.

The colour looks stunning too. Colour-match is good, texture is good, it look so rich when it's fresh & new.
We all have opinions but this is one I will support. I failed to recognize the level of quality work you have accomplished Song. But then you really don't need me to say it. You can see your own work and also appreciate it more. And for much less than the cost of someone else doing the work.

On to the roof!! \:D/

Ralph
There is a very fine line between "Hobby" and Mental Illness.

85 635csi Zinno Auto
84 528i Euro
83 635 Euro Arktik
81 528i Kastanien 5-speed
88 528e Bronzit (Granpa Car)
86 535i Auto (For Sale)
81 633 csi (retired)

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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by Jono B good » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:03 am

Ralph in Socal wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:23 am
MrE wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:41 am
Awesome job Song. I've just caught up on the work you've been doing with the air dam and its very impressive. You've done a great job fixing it up and prepping it, and the finished paint looks outstanding. Great stuff, and thanks for sharing the progress.

The colour looks stunning too. Colour-match is good, texture is good, it look so rich when it's fresh & new.
We all have opinions but this is one I will support. I failed to recognize the level of quality work you have accomplished Song. But then you really don't need me to say it. You can see your own work and also appreciate it more. And for much less than the cost of someone else doing the work.

On to the roof!! \:D/

Ralph
YES! I love your workmanship and your dedication man it shines through as does your paint, as Ralph said it "on to the roof" =D>
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Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by sansouci » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:30 pm

Song,
Once again, I am in awe of your dedication, ambition and hard-won skills. Way to go!
--Ken
Sansouci
84 E24 633Csi Auto, Bronzit/PearlBeige 6997510
93 E32 740il M60 Auto, Alpenweis/Ultramarine
60 528i M30 5-speed Green/Beige (crushed)
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New Front Air Dam Installed! Woohoo!

Post by songzunhuang » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:07 am

Hello everyone and thanks for the nice comments. As many of you know, the positive energy from this forum makes many of us do things that we wouldn't do if we were sitting in isolation and thinking about the work ahead! So, onto today's activities. I got to install the newly finished airdam and it looks pretty awesome.

First order of business was to take off the old unit. I used my trusty Rhino ramps to make it easier to get crawl under the car. I realized later that it's really tight with the original lower panel. The original panel is so tight against the underside making access with tools very challenging. The new airdam was much easier to deal with in terms of providing room for access. In any case, I studied the access points and took the original unit off with all the mounts intact.
Takeoff.png
Carefully removing the original front lower panel.
Takeoff.png (1.44 MiB) Viewed 758 times
Next, I studied the pictures that Ralph posted so that I'd understand where to mount everything. It all went off without much of a hitch. The only issue was a missing bracket on the airdam that I had to fabricate with some stainless steel and a few rivets. That took a bit of time searching around the garage. Luckily I had left over straps from my parallel flow condenser kit for the A/C all those months ago.
BRackets.png
The new underside and the bracket I created.
BRackets.png (1.38 MiB) Viewed 758 times


Then the foglights were installed although they are not hooked up yet. I need to get a foglight switch and then connect all the wiring. The foglight fastening system was quite a pain in the rear! However, perseverance got it done. Here's the front and side view after I drove the car down from the ramps. It was an exciting moment to take in the car after all those months imagining what it would look like.
Front.png
Front view with foglight and the side view.
Front.png (1.43 MiB) Viewed 758 times
Finally for the win! The best angle of the car with the new front airdam in place. Thanks so much Ralph for finding this part for me. I really like the slightly more aggressive look and I'm sure it'll help a bit with the front end lift at speed.
For the Win.png
I like the new look for the front air dam!
For the Win.png (1.48 MiB) Viewed 758 times
All together it took me about 3 hours to pull off the old part, install the new part while fabricating a new bracket and then installing the foglights. I did notice that the pieces that direct air to the front brakes for cooling are a bit blocked by the foglights now. I wonder if I'll notice any braking performance changes... Hopefully the airdam will direct airflow around the car and somehow slightly improve handling at speed.

Once again, I'll have to take a bit of a break as I won't be able to get to the car again for 2 weeks. Re-finishing roof will have to wait a bit, but I am anxious to get it going.
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Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

songzunhuang
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Posts: 839
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Location: Silicon Valley, CA
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Before and After Airdam

Post by songzunhuang » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:00 pm

OK, a quick side by side so that people can see the difference an air-dam makes on my car.
First, the side view.
Side.png
Side view with dam
Side.png (1.81 MiB) Viewed 698 times

And then the 3/4 frontview.
Front.png
3/4 front view with dam
Front.png (931.76 KiB) Viewed 698 times
Also interesting to note is the color shift based on the lighting. I guess these pictures were taken at different times of day and it made the gray of the car seen warmer in the evening shots.

In any case, I really like the look.
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Song Huang
1984 633CSi
Last 7 of VIN: 6997383

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MrE
Senior Member
Posts: 1805
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:37 pm
Location: Capital City, Australia

Re: 1984 633CSi Rises again!

Post by MrE » Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:14 am

Good stuff mate. I think the transformation between the first pic on page 1 of this thread and where you are now is a credit to you, and that car is lucky to have you! =D>

Now just remember to take care when parking nose-in at kerbs & gutters, and making your way up & down driveways. 8)
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