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Heater Control Valve

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panthercity
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by panthercity » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:30 pm

The MTC valve and Bosch valves differ in the design of the larger sealing surface. I believe this accounts for the difference in operation.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products?keywords=64118390132

I would be interested in hearing if anyone has had success with the MTC valve... It is much cheaper.
'85 635CSi Euro
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hornhospital
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by hornhospital » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:40 pm

I had no good result from the MTC valve. Waste of money IMHO.
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'84 633CSi "Sylvia"; '85 635CSi "Katja";'85 325e "Hazel Ann";'87 325is "Odette"; '93 325is "Elvira"; '95 M3 "Ashlyn"; '95 318is "Bebe"

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Brucey
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by Brucey » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:58 pm

Image

OEM bosch part

Image

MTC part.

They don't look that different to me.

BTW if the design is similar, it ought to be possible to release the 'E' clip, remove the plunger/diaphragm assembly and fit the MTC rubber parts to a failed bosch valve.

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LarryM
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by LarryM » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:47 am

I just replaced my heater control valve assembly (Pt. # 64111373191) with a supposedly new OEM unit and it leaks profusely where the upper and lower parts of the plastic body are joined. You can plug the outlet port with your thumb, blow into the inlet port, and feel air coming out around the seam. Apparently something was left out during assembly; maybe a seal or gasket?

I've never had a new BMW part that was defective and that failed so spectacularly, to the point where I'm wondering if maybe this isn't even an actual OEM BMW part. I purchased it online through a BMW parts dealer/vendor who purport to sell "Genuine BMW Parts", yet the part doesn't have any BMW or Bosch markings of any kind...just a small sticker with the BMW part number, and another sticker that reads "DC 12V". Is it possible I've been scammed, or is the quality of new BMW parts deteriorating?
1985 635CSi
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LarryM
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by LarryM » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:49 pm

Update: The dealer sent me another heater control valve, which also leaks. I've noticed that both of them came in boxes that say "Made in China" so evidently BMW has recently sent production of these valves offshore, and is now experiencing quality control problems. Maybe they're being assembled incorrectly, as Brucey describes. Too bad for everyone.

I've ordered one of the above-mentioned "repair kits" (Pt. # 64-11-8-390-132) to install into my original heater valve; hopefully they're still good quality.
1985 635CSi
1987 535is
1965 Impala SS

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Brucey
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by Brucey » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:07 am

Some photos would be useful, so others can see if they have the same issue or not. Is the part marked in any way, so it can be identified? If the plastic valve body has a welded seam, this sort of thing is normally made by ultrasonic welding. There are several different quality levels, not all of which are leak-tight!

Whether the part you bought is

a) fake, or

b) genuine but faulty

it isn't a happy situation. I would suppose that BMW AG ought to be interested too.

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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nick88highline
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by nick88highline » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:50 am

LarryM wrote:I just replaced my heater control valve assembly (Pt. # 64111373191) with a supposedly new OEM unit and it leaks profusely where the upper and lower parts of the plastic body are joined. You can plug the outlet port with your thumb, blow into the inlet port, and feel air coming out around the seam. Apparently something was left out during assembly; maybe a seal or gasket?

I've never had a new BMW part that was defective and that failed so spectacularly, to the point where I'm wondering if maybe this isn't even an actual OEM BMW part. I purchased it online through a BMW parts dealer/vendor who purport to sell "Genuine BMW Parts", yet the part doesn't have any BMW or Bosch markings of any kind...just a small sticker with the BMW part number, and another sticker that reads "DC 12V". Is it possible I've been scammed, or is the quality of new BMW parts deteriorating?
I just bought the same part from my local franchised BMW dealer and noticed that they are no longer being made in France or Germany, but China! Even the box it came in says "Made in China" on it and I have no reason to doubt that it didn't come from BMW. Mine has exactly the same "12V" sticker on it.

Image

Comparing this to a BOSCH valve (left),the difference is clear, there are missing springs:

Image

I haven't installed mine as I realised it wasn't worth it after examining it.
BMW 635CSiA (1988)
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Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 (2000)
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LarryM
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by LarryM » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:45 pm

I had already returned mine so I couldn't snap a photo. That's what mine looked like, although I didn't take it apart to discover the missing spring. If you had installed yours, it probably would have leaked as mine did.

I've emailed BMW about my experience including the part # of the faulty part; I suggest others do the same. Hopefully they'll improve the quality of these before it becomes a serious supply problem for us.
1985 635CSi
1987 535is
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Brucey
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by Brucey » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:59 am

when built correctly, the assembly needs to include

a) the thick washer (present in both assys)
b) the wave washer (spring) immediately below that and
c) the thin washer, below the wave washer

-miss these parts out, or put them in the wrong order and the thing will leak like a sieve. IMHO this is the most common fault when folk try to fit repair kits.

I would suggest that a kit of this sort could be fitted with the relevant spacers (with almost zero effort) and made to work perfectly, if that is the only thing that is wrong with it.

For years the rebuild kits (OEM and aftermarket) have variously been supplied without a full complement of washers and springs; you are meant to re-use them. It is pretty dumb to supply a unit with the coil mounted and not all the parts though.... :roll:

BTW the coil hardly ever goes wrong, so unless yours has definitely failed, I'd suggest there is little benefit to buying anything other than the centre part of the assembly. However the coil may vary in length, in which case some parts won't work together and there are adjustments that can be made to other combinations using spacers.

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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panthercity
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by panthercity » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:06 am

@Brucey

My bad experience with the two MTC repair kits might have been installation error. I did not pay close attention to the order of the wave washer and thin washer when I removed the MTC kit the second time...so I don't know for sure if it was installed correctly. I did however get the 3 washers in the right order with the bosch unit.
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603racing
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by 603racing » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:40 pm

I installed my MTC unit correctly. Removed and reinstalled it 3 times to be sure, it still leaked. I had cleaned out the valve to ensure a good seal, but it did not help. Then amongst messing with it, it now leaks through a seam in the plastic housing for the valve near the bottom.

I am just going to have to replace the entire housing with a new one.
'85 635csi - Dark Shark
'16 F150
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Brucey
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by Brucey » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:58 am

there is a drain hole in the housing so that any coolant that might leak past the valve actuator cannot then pool and rot the coil. Any kind of 'housing leak' (in a previously sound unit) is almost certainly a bad seal between the valve actuator top hat and the housing, with fluid then coming out of the drain hole.

Since there is only one rubber seal that can possibly leak (barring a hole in the top hat) it is very straightforward to test if you have a problem or not.

1) check that the seal is intact and is correctly fitted to the base of the actuator top hat. There is a lip to the seal that fits over the flange at the base of the top hat.

2) offer up the actuator to the housing (using hand pressure to make the seal), block one port with something, and suck (or blow) on the other. You ought to be able to easily make an airtight seal.

If you can make an airtight seal this way, it means that any leaks when the valve is installed in the car are almost certainly some kind of assembly fault.

If you can't make a seal this way then it means that the housing is cracked or (more likely) there is a fault with the actuator seal. Further simple tests will reveal which is the case.

BTW one of the possible assembly faults is that the tapered ribs inside the housing might foul on the washers that go each side of the spring. You can check for this by offering the parts up one at a time. I am pretty sure I had one set that did foul in this way; it might have been coincidence, but I ground some relief notches into one of the washers and then it was OK.

Also, if the washers are a loose fit on the diameter, they may sit off centre and prevent the seal from being loaded correctly by the spring. You can tell if the spring is at least trying to load the seal correctly, because the coil will sit up about 2-3mm, and will only go down when the screws are tightened.

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

zeltar
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by zeltar » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:45 pm

I would like to thank all the folks that went through this pain before me. I have had my Six since 2014 and lived on jack stands for the last 2 years (CA smog adventures). I knew i had a bad valve as it was hot all the time. So I bit the bullet and bought the "BMW" valve (64111373191) from FCP Euro for the absurd amount of $360!(6/2018) I installed it about a year ago and just got my car road worthy and blessed by the demonic DMV smog rules. Drove it a few times and once needed a little heat in the cabin, which worked great. Then leaving the next time noticed a "puddle" when I backed out of the garage. It was coolant and coming from my new valve. I was like wtf, how is that leaking from there??? So back to the best Six resource on the planet, revisited this post for the 100th time and read Brucey's post about "some kits dont have all the washers..". I was blown away that you can buy an alleged BMW part that would require dismantling of the old one to make the new one work. I have had 4 BMW''s so understand the "special tool xxx needed..." scenario's.

I was not sure if I saved the old valve or not, so i spent the last two days digging through my graveyard of parts. I did find the old valve and swapped the wave and thinner washer from old to new and I now have a sealed coolant system again.......

Many thanks to all that post here as I have learned most of my knowledge from this site......

- Eric
1987 L6

LarryM
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Re: Heater Control Valve

Post by LarryM » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:55 pm

zeltar wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:45 pm
I would like to thank all the folks that went through this pain before me. I have had my Six since 2014 and lived on jack stands for the last 2 years (CA smog adventures). I knew i had a bad valve as it was hot all the time. So I bit the bullet and bought the "BMW" valve (64111373191) from FCP Euro for the absurd amount of $360!(6/2018) I installed it about a year ago and just got my car road worthy and blessed by the demonic DMV smog rules. Drove it a few times and once needed a little heat in the cabin, which worked great. Then leaving the next time noticed a "puddle" when I backed out of the garage. It was coolant and coming from my new valve. I was like wtf, how is that leaking from there??? So back to the best Six resource on the planet, revisited this post for the 100th time and read Brucey's post about "some kits dont have all the washers..". I was blown away that you can buy an alleged BMW part that would require dismantling of the old one to make the new one work. I have had 4 BMW''s so understand the "special tool xxx needed..." scenario's.

I was not sure if I saved the old valve or not, so i spent the last two days digging through my graveyard of parts. I did find the old valve and swapped the wave and thinner washer from old to new and I now have a sealed coolant system again.......

Many thanks to all that post here as I have learned most of my knowledge from this site......

- Eric
I'm glad it worked out for you. Since you bought your heater valve in 2018, it now seems that BMW may have resolved this issue. Last spring (May 2019) my heater valve's plastic body cracked and I HAD to get a new one, so I took the chance by buying a brand new valve from BMW. This time it doesn't leak and works fine. Still made in China, though.
1985 635CSi
1987 535is
1965 Impala SS

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