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My henna 84

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TBM
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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:46 am

Since the ITBs are at the machine shop being converted to Shaftless I needed to take them apart. While there, I couldn't leave all the peripheral parts as they were.. SO I broke my fingers sanding, grinding with a file, polishing and voila... I never want to do that again..I must of used every attachment for my dremmel tool I had! I polished everything so that the cad coating will come out nicer..

The second pic is the pieces that didn't want to come apart easily and unfortunately broke... I have new Rod ends on order from Aurora since the Germans at Hirschmann took their sweet time..
Ready for Zinc.JPG
Ready for Zinc.JPG (1.63 MiB) Viewed 1376 times
Broken Rod Ends.JPG
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'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Transition between ITB and new plenum

Post by TBM » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:35 am

The piece shown here is purely for fitment check but will hopefully be good and final design for the eventual pieces.
Transiton 1.jpeg
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Transition 2.jpeg
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Transition 3.jpeg
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'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Printed Carbon variable ITB's

Post by TBM » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:36 pm

Finally, after much trial and error, we got the pieces printed correctly. Between having to dry the spools and adjusting the feed rates it was a challenge. The 3D printing world is still in discovery mode..
Variable intakes apart 1.JPG
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Variable intakes 1.JPG
Variable intakes 1.JPG (241.57 KiB) Viewed 1266 times
Variable intakes SBS.JPG
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'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

baders
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Re: My henna 84

Post by baders » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:10 am

Wow. You have such dedication to this ambitious project ! Kudos Sir.
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:45 am

baders wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:10 am
Wow. You have such dedication to this ambitious project ! Kudos Sir.
Thanks! I appreciate that very much!
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by baders » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:21 am

No problem. I forgot to ask my question. You are going to use an E46M3 throttle actuator to operate the variable horns ? If so, have you worked out the signals because the E46M3 unit operates substantially through the ECU. The reason I ask is that I was at one stage thinking of adapting an E46M3 actuator to operate the ITBs on my S38B36. However, the more I looked into it the more complicated it seemed.
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:14 am

baders wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:21 am
No problem. I forgot to ask my question. You are going to use an E46M3 throttle actuator to operate the variable horns ? If so, have you worked out the signals because the E46M3 unit operates substantially through the ECU. The reason I ask is that I was at one stage thinking of adapting an E46M3 actuator to operate the ITBs on my S38B36. However, the more I looked into it the more complicated it seemed.
In order to make the M3 motor work you need either a standalone or custom built simple electronics box. I may be mistaken but the E46 also has limp mode as well as other motor nannies, which the ECU controls through this motor. Not necessary for us of course. Although it would have been very easy to use the OEM BMW motor, I don't want to use it because its very heavy (cheap but heavy.) I am now looking for an industrial strength stepper motor that can handle the duties as well as react in milliseconds. I am using an Emtron KV-8 or all those needs. I chose the Emtron because they dont try to sell you more firmware upgrades like Motec does and the cost was very very low for such a capable fully programmable motorsport ECU. https://emtronaustralia.com.au
As you can see they are australian and the more I look into custom programming the more I discover how amazing this ECU is. Sneak peak... I am employing an early ATE Mk-60 abs unit from the M3 (early units when BMW didn't have its DCS and ABS programing locked in yet are fully programable.) I will use the OEM Yaw sensor as well as the steering wheel position sensor and have full BMW DSC as well as launch and traction control all running through the Emtron. Give Emtron a call and ask them for a good tuner in your area. If you plan on tuning the car at any point the unit will surely complement all your plans.
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

baders
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Re: My henna 84

Post by baders » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:42 pm

Awesome. Make sure to keep us updated about this project !

I was going to look at aftermarket ECU control for my S38B36 but am sticking with OEM dizzy and good ole Motronic 1.3 for now. Maybe down the track. It's been such a long running project that I just want to drive it :)

So if I understand correctly, the Emtron has output for stepper motor control linked to a throttle input ?
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:27 pm

baders wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:42 pm
So if I understand correctly, the Emtron has output for stepper motor control linked to a throttle input ?
Emtron has an output that can control a stepper motor, I need to have a position sensor on the motor. What I'll be using it for is the actuation of the intake movement, NOT the opening and closing of the throttles. The intakes will lengthen and shorten bu about 3 inches between 2000-5000 rpm then come off the plenum back plate above that to redline to shorten the stack to about 2.5" (from the butterfly.)
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by baders » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:21 pm

Yes I understand. I was more referring to my line of thought for my car ie. eventual aftermarket ECU and electronic throttle control. I really look forward to your progress.
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:09 am

baders wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:21 pm
Yes I understand. I was more referring to my line of thought for my car ie. eventual aftermarket ECU and electronic throttle control. I really look forward to your progress.
I meant to cover that initially, then got lost in my own world. The S54 throttle body motor will work very easily with an Emtron. Its the reason I was encouraged to use one for the movement in the first place. Thanks for the encouragement!
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:14 pm

I needed to start mocking things up. too many components that I am trying to cram in a small space to make room for a big plenum.

The first thing...I traced the outline of the original plenum and propped it to see if the elbow design was working out. I oversized it by a little in order to create as much space as I can. It is proven that at 8x the engine capacity the supercharging effect is higher and more effective. There is only room for a total width of about 7.5" from fender side to elbows. So far I'm at 8.1 X. I may be able to squeeze more but I don't want fitment issues.
I also bought an E46 heater valve and need to work out routing the return line.. I bought a gates hose that twists and turns, but I don't think it will work out.
Back plate outline.jpg
Back plate outline.jpg (1.24 MiB) Viewed 1117 times
Needs adjustment .JPG
Needs adjustment .JPG (1.17 MiB) Viewed 1117 times
Plenum backplate mock up.JPG
Plenum backplate mock up.JPG (1.11 MiB) Viewed 1117 times
Must relocate dip stick.JPG
Must relocate dip stick.JPG (1.15 MiB) Viewed 1117 times
Last edited by TBM on Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:15 pm

Continued..
Test fit E28 Coolant tank.JPG
Test fit E28 Coolant tank.JPG (1.04 MiB) Viewed 1117 times
Back side routing.JPG
Back side routing.JPG (996.59 KiB) Viewed 1117 times
MK 60 ABS mock up .JPG
MK 60 ABS mock up .JPG (1.27 MiB) Viewed 1116 times
Attachments
Cut old ABS braket out .JPG
Cut old ABS braket out .JPG (1.17 MiB) Viewed 1117 times
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:22 pm

Heater valve...
mounitng E46 heater valve .JPG
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'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:57 am

Small Update:

I was going to hide the LS7 coils right in front of where the distributor normally sits I will be using a CPS. In fact, all six coils would have fit inside a slightly revised OEM plastic cover so it all looked OEM.... But then I decided to spread the weight as much as possible for handling balance. Ultimately I want to use COP from a GT-R as they are very robust, but they cost a lot and I can make these brackets with a waterjet from the Titanium plate I have. So this will have to do for now. The brackets will be on the standoffs from the original wires and on new ones off the first row of fasteners for the valve cover...
Coil Bracket.jpg
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Valve cover_coils.png
Valve cover_coils.png (107.2 KiB) Viewed 968 times
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:32 pm

Since I've had time off of work and been able to loaf a little I have concentrated on the CAD that I need in order to make the plenum a reality. This is still rough but getting there.. I am not a pro and have had to watch a lot of videos to get this far.. I'm liking Fusion 360 a lot!

The shots show the plenum split into three pieces so far. I am splitting the main section into tow because it will need access to the ITB's so that the entire piece doesn't need to be taken out in case there is some servicing needed in the future. I am planing on making the collar just like the BMW piece in the last pic. It will be made of Aluminum as well. There will be an internal tube running the length of the plenum along the bottom "front" (looking from the drivers side fender) with a slat that will measure the same opening as the radius initially coming into the plenum. That is in order try and distribute air equally amongst all cylinders. This concept was taken from the Jenvey plenum design. We shall see how it all works out. Nice thing is I can model it all on CAD and tweak there.
Plenum 1.png
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Plenum 2.png
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Plenum 3.png
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PLenum 4.png
PLenum 4.png (198.83 KiB) Viewed 921 times
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:33 pm

Continued
Plenum 5.png
Plenum 5.png (201.98 KiB) Viewed 921 times
Plenum collar.png
Plenum collar.png (438.37 KiB) Viewed 921 times
Attachments
Jenvey Distributor .jpg
Jenvey Distributor .jpg (8.58 KiB) Viewed 921 times
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:42 am

More updates.. I'm certainly not trained as a CAD guy.. But I refuse to give up. Here are a few more shots of the concept Manifold I want to incorporate into the plenum.. Its not correct in many ways but gives an idea of what I would like to achieve..

I'm always open to comments and questions of course!
front .png
front .png (338.38 KiB) Viewed 846 times
Left .png
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front left .png
front left .png (186.84 KiB) Viewed 846 times
I know it sticks out and thats ok.. I have room for that and it should be integrated that way so that the manifold takes the least amount of space in the Plenum as possible while doing its job...
Last edited by TBM on Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:52 pm

OK... Managed to learn a little more between last night and today and get really close to what I intended to make..
Rear Quarter view .png
Rear Quarter view .png (159.24 KiB) Viewed 821 times
Front profile.png
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Back profile.png
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Laying Down .png
Laying Down .png (86.29 KiB) Viewed 821 times
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:01 pm

Inner manifold by itself
Manifold angle .png
Manifold angle .png (161.25 KiB) Viewed 820 times
Manifold top.png
Manifold top.png (104.19 KiB) Viewed 820 times
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by GazM3 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:33 am

Like your work. Let’s hope there is some benifits in the revised plenum
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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:13 am

GazM3 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:33 am
Like your work. Let’s hope there is some benifits in the revised plenum
Thanks...

It's complex and needs lots of tuning... But I didn't look for easy.. I didn't want to just bolt on parts that someone else said work..

The final result will be a culmination of many details.. The M88/S38 a great motor with great potential..
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by baders » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:28 am

Yep, wonderfully detailed work !

What coils were you looking at using ?
1986 635csi LOCUTUS / Arktis Blau Metallic / Pearl Beige / S38B36/ Close ratio dogleg 5sp
2002 E46 M3 / Topaz Blau Metallic / Black Nappa / 6 speed SMG software tuned / Bilstein PSS10 Coilovers

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Re: My henna 84

Post by TBM » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:10 pm

baders wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:28 am
Yep, wonderfully detailed work !

What coils were you looking at using ?
Thank you for the compliment.

The coils are GM Type LS coils. As explained earlier, I wanted to start with something more affordable and simple to get anywhere here in the US. In the future I will customize a rail down the middle of the valve cover and hopefully be able to use GT-R COP coils like the pic below.
Coils .png
Coils .png (256.75 KiB) Viewed 750 times
GT-R Custom rail.jpg
GT-R Custom rail.jpg (71.43 KiB) Viewed 750 times
'84 M635csi
'86 Lotus esprit Turbo (sold)

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Re: My henna 84

Post by ericono » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:08 pm

As always, some kick ass work going on here. I do have a few questions. Not clear on the tube in the plenum. Is the outside air coming into the plenum from the bottom and therefore going through the tube first in an effort to evenly fill the plenum and therefore evenly supply air to every cylinder or is the tube performing some other function? Are you getting rid of the AFM or MAF and running an Alpha N setup (sorry if you already said this earlier)?

Also, you may have already answered this but I forgot, does the early Mk60 run completely standalone or does it need to integrate with the Emtron to perform properly?

Thanks again for sharing, I love following the progress.

Eric
'85 M635, '00 528iT, '98 Z3

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