UK M635 (0760465) bodywork tidy up - 56k forget it

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cecotto479

UK M635 (0760465) bodywork tidy up - 56k forget it

Post by cecotto479 »

I've made a few references recently to the wings\sills\inners etc. tidy up the M635 has been undergoing recently, so I thought I'd better write it up and scare the living shit out of all of you. :-)

When I bought the car, over two years ago now,
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As it was on the day I bought it.

I knew that it would need new wings and the sills looked at in time. It was OK, but the wings were showing the usual signs, but this was no M.O.T. failure rotbox - you're thinking of this, later acquisition:-
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An M.O.T. failure rotbox pictured recently

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A few months later and in my garage proudly wearing its Style 5s


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You can see the wing bubbling here.

Anyway, I used it for 18 months or so and just before it went off the road for the winter last October, it was suffering from an occasional misfire.

A trip to BM Motors in nearby Law saw the fitment of:-
a recon starter motor;
new distributor cap;
new rotor arm;
and, all the way from der FaderLand, allegedly BMW's last new set of HT leads;
all of which along with a full service had the car running beautifully. Much smoother and more responsive and it starts immediately every time. The engine seems to barely turn before it bursts into life.

This last bit was a bit of a double edged sword really, because, just occasionally, when it burst into life it sounded like a paraffin grey Fergie running a pot down, until the timing chain tensioner built up its pressure and quietened it all down.

So out with the official BMW bullet (Part no. 25111221287) and some industrial strength dentures and into the timing chain.

BM Motors again did the necessary, replacing the chain, all three sprockets, all the guides and the engine mounts.

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Part way through the chain replacement

Everything went swimmingly and now at 112000 miles I have the peace (or should that be "a piece"?) of mind of knowing that the chain is done. There is a funny rattle from the chain at about 3000 rpm which I don't really like and wasn't there before, and I think I'll maybe replace the old tensioner just to see if it goes away.

You'll all know about the 55 mph E24 dance and I don't know why, but one day, I pressed down on the NS front wing and it was solid, well the wing wasn't OBVIOUSLY, but the suspension was.

So we now have a seized damper and we're into December and while I really want to get the bodywork done, I'm thinking that maybe I should get the bullet and dentures out again and take a look at the suspension.

So, another wee trip to BM Motors (and indeed Eastern BMW in Edinburgh) sees 4 new yellow Bilsteins, 4 springs, top mounts front and rear and all suspension bushes, pitman arm bushes, track rods etc. etc. replaced along with both diff oil seals and the transmission and diff oils. The suspension overhaul was quite psychadelic really:-

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Yellow

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Red

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Anodised gold!

Right! So all we need really is a quick tidy up of the bodywork and interior (which is really OK) and the car'll be be back on the road for the spring.

With bodywork, there are two difficulties. Firstly finding someone you would trust to do the work and having found them, persuading them that they really want to work on your E24. Bodyshops, however well regarded, really don't want to look at anything over a few years old where the parts aren't available at the local body factors and can't be glued on with a tube of Sikaflex.

Between all of the assembled staff of McFadden Classic Cars in Motherwell, they couldn't spell "Sikaflex" so on that positive note, after a long chat with Paul there, we agreed that he'd take it in and "tidy it up a bit" for the spring - well by this time we were into March so that was always optimistic.

He was busy, I was going away, then he was going away and it was late April before the car was delivered to his premises and I was introduced to "Jimmy" - the craftsman who was to be tasked with tidying up my E24. Imagine the positive "can do" attitude of Private Fraser in Dad's Army combined with the sunny disposition of Victor Meldrew and the rugged good looks of Yoda, mix in a Glasgow accent et voila Jimmy. We got off to a good start when I learned that Jimmy only works two days a week and no amount of cajoling, pleading or threatening would change that. Apparently his wife is really scary and won't let him do any more.

Anyway it was only in for a quck tidy up, replace the wings, patch the sills and a lower half repaint should only take a couple of weeks.

WINGS

I had collected a pair of really good - perfect front wings - one from the rotbox pictured above and another from Germany. Jimmy prepped them for fitting and tried to ensure that they'll never rust. At least we now know where E24s rust so preventing them rusting in the future should be easier. It was when I realised that Jimmy had spent four days preparing and rustproofing the new wings (and removing what miniscule amounts of rust he could find) that I began to realise that the spring wasn't really feasible.

There was no rust in the inner wings visible from the engine bay nor in my prodding about in the general area with a big screwdriver so it was just a case of taking off the wings and putting on the new ones. Even for Jimmy, no more than a day's work.
At the moment, I only have a picture of the completed inner wing, but it was three weeks work and included fitting the new "trumpet" panels, the fabrication of the forward most 8-10 inches and the complete perpendicular flitch panel you can see at the front sitting just behind the indicators.
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Repaired nearside inner wing - the offside was worse.

Some time was spent trial fitting the outer wings, tacking, adjusting, trial fit, tacking, adjusting etc. until the fit was as good as possible.

So, wings done, the sills shouldn't be too bad...............

Sills

A couple of e-mails to Walloth und Nesch enquiring as to the availability of their outer sill repair panels and more specifically their negative response sent Jimmy into full "We're alll dooomed. Dooooooooomed Ah tell ye." mode and on closer inspection one could see why:-

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"We're alll dooomed. Dooooooooomed Ah tell ye."

So no repair panels and Jimmy preparing to hang himself by a fanbelt from the garage roof. I won't say much more just now, just look at the pictures and try not to run out into the garage to look at your car:-

Offside
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"Off side front inner and outer sill stripped and rust cut out."

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"Inner and outer sill repair pieces - made from scratch by Jimmy"

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"Rear inner and outer removed, jacking points repaired and ready for outer replacement"

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"The front of the NS rear wheelwell repaired. Yes, the offside was the same"

So to recap, inners and outers and jacking points all repaired and replaced on both sides. Jimmy is now beginning to take on hero status having made up all the sill repair panels himself and with the sills completed there cannot be much more needing done for a quick tidy up.

Floor

There was a bit of a mystery in that a badly placed jack had damaged the floor and I certainly didn't notice it at the time I bought it and it wasn't done by me subsequently but I noticed it some months before going into McFaddens, so I did know the floor needed hammering out a bit so Jimmy got the bodywork hammers out and..........

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Offside floor after Jimmy had straightened it.

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More of Jimmy's repair panels.

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Now straight, rust free and rust protected.Not pretty though.

A Post and B Post

In for a penny, in for a pound. There were a couple of 5p piece sized scabs at the base of the A post on either side and a nasty wee bit at the wiper wheelbox, so out with the bullet, dentures and the windscreen. "Tip" and "Iceberg" are two words that spring to mind:-


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Just very minimal bubbling before we started.


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All the rot cut out.


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More of jimmy's metalworking magic.


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Rust? No rust here, guv.

Similar repairs were required to the other side.


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Another tiny bit of bubbling is reduced to dust and a big hole


So that's the A and B posts done - there's some rot around the windscreen that's been done too.



Rear lights


Highlines suffer from rust below the rear lights. It's just a bit of bubbling easily repaired with some Kurust and Cataloy. This car was no worse than most others, though it had had the kurust and Cataloy treatment. if you're of a nervous disposition and your Highline has a couple of bubbles under the rear lights, you might want to look away now:-

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Not only is it a big hole, it's a hell of a shape!


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Not as bad as the other side, but still holed and needing metal let in.


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More of Jimmy's repair pieces


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And the finished article. The other side is the same.

Well, that's just about it for now. The car's ready for paint and will be leaving Jimmy's tender ministrations any day now.

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Ready for paint.

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New rustproofed wing fitted

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Looking like a car again for the first time in a while.

There are other areas that have been repaired as well, particularly at the rear bumper and the number plate lights.

I'll obviously post pictures once it's painted, and to be honest, I could have done this much more cheaply and got away with it - for a few years, but at the end of the day, the only way to deal with rot is to cut it out and let in fresh metal.

This is an perfect lesson in why you should not buy an old unrestored six. I'm not unhappy, I got it at a decent price knowing there was work needed in a year or so, but I truly didn't realise the scale until we were well through the project and had decided to do it properly. I expect to have spent more on the car this year than I would get for it if I sold it.

Just bear this post in mind when your finger is hovering over the "bid now" button and the description says ".....with a little tlc and a few hundred pounds this could be a concours car".

Finally my thanks to BM Motors in Law (01698 375146) - ask for Davy
and McFadden Classic Cars in Motherwell (01698 254141) - ask for Paul - Ask for Jimmy at your peril. But if you are looking for a meticulous job and some impressive panel beating skills (and obviously aren't in a rush) Jimmy's your man. I'm impressed and I'm not easy to impress.
Last edited by cecotto479 on Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
horsetan

Re: UK M635 (0760465) bodywork tidy up - 56k forget it

Post by horsetan »

cecotto479 wrote:.....I'm impressed and I'm not easy to impress.
We'd gathered that :lol:

BTW, most of your pics have turned into red X's.......
cecotto479

Re: UK M635 (0760465) bodywork tidy up - 56k forget it

Post by cecotto479 »

horsetan wrote:
cecotto479 wrote:.....I'm impressed and I'm not easy to impress.
We'd gathered that :lol:

BTW, most of your pics have turned into red X's.......
I can see that from a customer's site. www.m635.co.uk must be playing up. I can't connect or VPN into it either. I'll check it later. They're worth seeing if you're not squeamish.

EDIT: Should be fixed now. Please let me know if you still can't see them and I'll put them on Photobucket
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Post by Brucey »

I can see them... its scarey......

how much did this little lot set you back?
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
horsetan

Post by horsetan »

Brucey wrote:I can see them... its scarey......
Very scary. :shock:

It's even worse than my (much older) car..... My sills are nowhere near as bad as that!

Mind you, you don't have those terrifying little bubbles appearing on the roof, in a short line just behind the sunroof opening :cry:
how much did this little lot set you back?
If only for us to fear for the future..... :shock:
cecotto479

Post by cecotto479 »

horsetan wrote:
It's even worse than my (much older) car..... My sills are nowhere near as bad as that!
I hope you're right.I didn't think mine were as bad as that.
how much did this little lot set you back?
horsetan wrote: If only for us to fear for the future..... :shock:

Bastards - the pair of you.

I said earlier that I expect to spend more on it than I'll get for it if I were to sell it.

I really didn't want to think about it, but now that you've asked, the stuff that I can find easily at hand just now:-

Mechanical stuff:-
Parts (dealer - bought by me)
Shocks Springs etc. ?726
Engine bits (timing chain - not service items) ?932
HT leads ?260
Rotor arm and cap ?67
Oil seals, Air cleaner, engine mount, crankshaft nut, head gasket set and other bits and bobs ?188
Supplied by BM Motors:-
Drag links, bushes, TREs, starter motor, control arm etc. ?330
Oil and sundries etc ?60

LABOUR ?975

Mechanical total ?3400 +

Bodywork - who knows?

I'm budgeting in the region of ?7000 all in completed.
I've paid ?4000 in labour to get it to the stage you see it in now. It still needs painting and reassembly so realistically there's absolutely no chance of any change out of ?10000 in total and nearer ?11000 is more realistic. In addition to that there's been a fair bit of parts cost to add in, the inner wing panels, wings, A post finishers, screen trims, wipers - Can anyone guess at the cost of the wee headlamp wiper arms? Go on. You won't be close! - , seals etc. etc.

You've also got to bear in mind that this hasn't included engine or gearbox overhaul and while it will be one of the best in terms of structure and bodywork with sound mechanics and a decent interior, it's light years away from concours, light years!

Not that concours is my thing, but if you were trying to rebuild one to concours , the ?49000+ that mine cost in 1989 is beginning to look like a bit of a bargain.

And the really scary bit is that this car really didn't look too bad. The bits that got me (I knew the sills needed doing) were the tiny wee bubbles that just opened up when you approached them with a grinder. The base of the A posts, the base of the B posts and below the rear lights just amazed me. It looked better than almost every other Highline I've seen below the rear lights and when you start it's just all rotten.

It might just be a bad one, but as you say, it had no rust in some of the usual places - sunroof, rear screen aperture, doors, diff mount, front crossmember, steering box mount and amazingly the the rear arches are perfect - weird or what?

I'm looking forward to the paint and reassembly, but I know there's more financial pain there as well.
horsetan

Post by horsetan »

cecotto479 wrote:....Bastards - the pair of you.
:lol:

Wait 'til you see the photos of all the bits I've acquired so far to do this suspension conversion. A lot of financial pain went into that :!:
I said earlier that I expect to spend more on it than I'll get for it if I were to sell it.
I'm afraid that I can never realistically sell mine. As you know, it was involved in a shunt in August 2002, and properly repaired and refurbished generally, but not before the insurer had recorded the car as a Category C write-off.

No one's going to buy a Cat. C car, so this one has to stay with me for life.


******

BTW, on your Website Register, please note 0760284 was exported to the Republic of Ireland, after Nick sold it....
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Post by Brucey »

-I've just goen through a similar 'oh Lordy' moment with the rusty 'A' post base syndrome on my project car.

The net effect of this was that it was another half a day with the grinder and the welding set, instead of getting on with the engine swap.

Some days I think I am just keeping up with the galloping rot, rather than outpacing it; if it carries on this way, I shall have a 6er that is entirely comprised of MIG weld metal, made in small stages....

BTW does this mean you have a set of knackered Bilsteins? If so do you want to sell them to me, as some of the parts may be salvageable?

cheers
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Post by sharkfan »

absolutely no chance of any change out of ?10000 in total and nearer ?11000 is more realistic
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: I'm going to cry - a lot

Mind you, you don't have those terrifying little bubbles appearing on the roof, in a short line just behind the sunroof opening
My M6 does - I'm going to cry some more :cry:


I've never really considered selling a 6er on for any reason other than to make space for the next one - this well told tale should convince us all that these cars are a real labour of love and we all need commiting for serious psychological assessment :shock:

I only hope we stay fairly dedicated to the cause - I always keep tabs on the current crop of 6ers for sale and try to be nosy if they're nearby - there does seem to be a lot of really shoddy ones out there at the moment and Cecotto479's is the tale of a 'good' one - has anyone spotted or viewed any of the three M635's on ebay currently?

I'll have to get around to updating my project listing soon - I fear the 635 story could be a tale of rust and woe before too long - those sill pictures look horribly familiar :shock: :cry:

Sharkfan
Jeroen

Post by Jeroen »

Well with these kind of projects are always more about love then brains :lol:
I did not calculate my project when I was busy with it, although after this posting and ?administrating? my receipts photo?s and trophies (piece of rotten E24 that I use as a paperweight on my desk)

All cost (inclusive the car) stands on 12800 GBP :oops:

And this is for a ?normal?635CSI.. bad investment? The accountants will agree that it was, for this money I could have bought a mint one? Except this car is mine, at with that I mean really mine all those hours of work mending, mounting, shouting, and the big hunt for that part you really want..
I think this applies for more people here, realistically were all bad investors :mrgreen:
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Post by Brucey »

I will own up to a massive investment of my time; money-wise it is far, far far less.... but then my '87 is far from perfect (and it never will be I think), and another way of looking at it is that via my efforts I've entertained myself (and others no doubt) at little cost.

My project car looks to make my investment of time in my '87 look pitiful, plus it will consume money as well no doubt... we shall see....

we're all aboard a ship of fools, of that there is little doubt....

but happy with it, no??

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
horsetan

Post by horsetan »

sharkfan wrote:
Mind you, you don't have those terrifying little bubbles appearing on the roof, in a short line just behind the sunroof opening
My M6 does - I'm going to cry some more :cry: ...
Et tu, Brutus :?: :shock:
Brucey wrote:....we're all aboard a ship of fools, of that there is little doubt....

but happy with it, no??
We'd be happier if the said ship didn't have a (rusty) hole in the hull / keel below the Plimsoll line....

Perhaps it's time to write a restoration guide to the E24. I'm sure a LOT of photos could be supplied for the "before" pics.....

Whether of course any worthwhile royalties could be earned from the sales of such a book, I cannot really say.... :(
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Post by sharkfan »

Brucey wrote:
we're all aboard a ship of fools, of that there is little doubt....

but happy with it, no??
Aha, I always wondered how the smile of a genuinely happy person differs from that of the complete loony - the difference must be an ignition key to an E24 :wink:

Sharkfan
horsetan

Post by horsetan »

sharkfan wrote:....the smile of a genuinely happy person differs from that of the complete loony ....
I thought the two were one and the same :?:
Jeroen

Post by Jeroen »

[/quote]

Aha, I always wondered how the smile of a genuinely happy person differs from that of the complete loony - the difference must be an ignition key to an E24 :wink:

Sharkfan[/quote]

:lol:
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Post by sharkfan »

horsetan wrote:
sharkfan wrote:....the smile of a genuinely happy person differs from that of the complete loony ....
I thought the two were one and the same :?:
Nope, here's what the complete loony has to smile about :shock: :D :wink:

Image
cecotto479

Post by cecotto479 »

sharkfan wrote:
horsetan wrote:
sharkfan wrote:....the smile of a genuinely happy person differs from that of the complete loony ....
I thought the two were one and the same :?:
Nope, here's what the complete loony has to smile about :shock: :D :wink:
Haw! Who you calling a complete loony? It wasn't me that bought the Blackpool Bucket.
horsetan

Post by horsetan »

Blackpool Bucket :?: Now this is a story I'd like to hear more about.....

Who's owning up to that particular skeleton in the garage :?: :wink:
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Post by sharkfan »

cecotto479 wrote:
sharkfan wrote:
horsetan wrote: I thought the two were one and the same :?:
Nope, here's what the complete loony has to smile about :shock: :D :wink:
Haw! Who you calling a complete loony? It wasn't me that bought the Blackpool Bucket.
No direct reference intended whatsoever, and apologies if you thought so - it was intended to show that most 'happy' sixer owners will have a few similar images in their future (I know I have) - and yet we're all smiling now - :D

Apologies for any offence,

Sharkfan
cecotto479

Post by cecotto479 »

sharkfan wrote:........
Apologies for any offence,

Sharkfan
Absolutely none taken, Kevin. I was only winding you up, particularly about your TVR - The Blackpool Bucket - so called because most have more water sloshing around inside them than a window cleaner's bucket
horsetan

Post by horsetan »

Ah.....! That explains it. Mystery solved :lol:
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Post by sharkfan »

cecotto479 wrote:
sharkfan wrote:........
Apologies for any offence,

Sharkfan
Absolutely none taken, Kevin. I was only winding you up, particularly about your TVR - The Blackpool Bucket - so called because most have more water sloshing around inside them than a window cleaner's bucket
:D :D :D

Ours must be an odd example - it's never leaked a drop of water - but volts - strewth, it eats batteries (until I bought a trickle charger) and never seems to have quite enough power to constantly run the absolutely necessary dual cooling fans :shock:

It nearly went west this summer - for an Alpina Z4S - it survived by a whisker :wink:

Sharkfan
SHADOWLINE635

Post by SHADOWLINE635 »

Anybody want to buy a black M6
:wink: going cheap lol.
Only joking mine will be getting sorted as soon as my Motorsport comes back from the bodyshop.
Your Highline M6 will sure look grand when she is finished and boy those wheel look smart.

Cheers
Drew

Post by Drew »

don't count/ stop counting the cost!! just get a few more jobs to cover the bills

I just spent ?300 on new door seals but blow me they work, first time, every time. No howling gale above 60mph (touch wood, cross fingers etc.)

rust, hmmm

I did have a pleasing moment on the M1 the other week when the car in front (afore mentioned bucket) went up in a cloud of steam, obviously the dual cooling fans were low on juice. I know its bad but it really made me smile to cruise on by in my 25year old beast (hole in the exhaust). Of course my next thought was about replacing the viscous coupling as the needle was certainly rising faster than it should.

so counting??? new visous coupling ?80, new exhaust ? :roll: , new door seals, how much? very easy to spend money quite quickly
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Post by Brucey »

viscous couplings are about 30 quid from gsf IIRC

-beats hell out of dealer prices, no?

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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