Are E23's any good - Yes it seems so

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RoyW

Post by RoyW »

Snap it up!! Great cars with some known issues (like most 80's BMWs)... but nothing insurmountable.

-RoyW
GazM3
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Post by GazM3 »

RoyW wrote:Snap it up!! Great cars with some known issues (like most 80's BMWs)... but nothing insurmountable.

-RoyW
Lol nearly had it 12months now.

Someone offered me silly money for the 3piece ACS wheels so they are gone. In its place some 16x7.5" style 5 rims from e39. And yes i have some of those little rings so it doesn't shake at speed. They need spacers as the gap ls like the sleeve of a wizard to th guards. The car rides so much better on 16" tyres.
I'll do some pics shortly.

Also finally the MLS cometic gasget is on its way and ahold be here by 15may. It's getting an upgraded head/292 cam/valve springs/port matched intake / adjustable cam wheel etc.

I need the MLS as the heads have been shaved 40thou and I'm running std flat top pistons with no fly cuts so comp should still be 9.8:1.
Even thou the cam is pretty big for an auto it made great torque off the lopey idle and at worst will prob need some lower diff gears.

I have a medium case 3.91 gear set and LSD but not sure if I can retrofit the gears in the side loader case
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Post by GazM3 »

it has all started. Unfortunatly broke the chain guide so I replaced both guides and the chain, added many hours to the job. So far it is coming together well, and im cleaning some of the bits to make it all pretty. The ports on the B35 head are much bigger than the B34. It should make some nice power.

Starting to pull stuff apart
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Old head is off, unfortnatly I broke the guide so timing cover had to come off as well
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Block surfaced and timing chain removed
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Making the stuff pretty
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New head to go on
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Hopefully it all goes back together nice and operational early next week.
Ill probably need a new diff ratio, so Im wondering whether I can fit my 3.73 LSD large case from the E24. It would be perfect and still give reasonable criuse revs.
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84 E24 M635csi
90 E34 M5 3.6
94 E34 540i/6 SC E85
97 E36 M3 euro SC U/C
97 Z3 2.8 widebody

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Post by GazM3 »

Car is back together finally. A few minor issues getting it up and running as there always is when u mess With 27yo engines. Initially it was very lumpy at idle but engine was nice and quiet with no tapping noises. On the road it drives pretty smooth but throttle response is a little dohey and the small sample of fuel cosumption indicates untuned fuel use will be about 40% more.

Now the fun begins. I had to add fuel at idle (via the air meter spring) to smooth out the lumpyness and it drives pretty well for an untuned car with a big cam tall geared auto. I see the potential in it for sure

It feels like it needs lots more timing and fuel. I'll fit an adjustale fuel pressure reg and up the pressure slighly and then take fuel out as needed via a DFO to get the mixtures nice and the bosch dme computer will think its leaner and it will feed the timing into it. The wideband sensor and AF guage will help in this quest for sure. I'm pretty confident to get over 200hp at the wheels which is not far off what it originally had at the flywheel.

Its screaming out for my 3.73 LSD diff that I have From my m635, to be installed.
I'll wait to the tuning is done first.

I'll get some pics of the prettier engine bay soon.

Watch this space.
BMW’s
84 E24 M635csi
90 E34 M5 3.6
94 E34 540i/6 SC E85
97 E36 M3 euro SC U/C
97 Z3 2.8 widebody

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Ozibimmer
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Post by Ozibimmer »

Picked up this tidy 1979 English Import High Comp E23 633i this week.
She is a rare Manual for Australia and has rust in all the usual spots.
I also picked up some Schnitzer 17 inch by 9 and some Remotec 16 inch x 9
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_________________________
77 E3 3.0SI
77 E24 633CSi
78 E23 728i
79 E24 633CSi
80 E24 635CSi
82 E24 635csi Race Car Build (Schnitzer Replica) viewtopic.php?t=21792
82 E28 JPS (1 of 2 Ever Built)
85 E30 JPS
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Post by tschultz »

733^ looks interesting, for sure. You sure do find a lot of nice old BMW's!
http://www.Drive4Corners.com
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'79 635CSi Revival
'80 635CSi
'83 633CSi Callaway Turbo continued as 1988 535is Turbo
SOLD: '81 635CSi/A
GazM3
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Post by GazM3 »

Its good you have some loving Addam for the E23. Its the cheapest car I own and almost my most favorate, well it will be when there is more drivablity. Those ACS type1 look great on E34 and even E36, but they have to be lowered and good offset to give thier best. I never tried them on the E24 as they didnt fit over the 4 piston brakes. They just fitted on the E23 by about 1mm, but to pull the look off, I would have had to lower it more and the ride would have been awful. With the taller tyres it rides so much better, and the std suspension seems to work in harmony with it rather than against it with the 17" rims. Even the handling is sharper with the 16" which I didnt expect.

Anyway enough blabbering. Heres some pics of the engine back together. Also on the new 16" e28m5 style 5's. The tyres are a tiny bit too big, but ill replace when they wear out. Engine bay is much prettier than before. Addam I think it needs a 6 series front spoiler (hint hint!)

Now to sort the tuning issues with it. It never ends does it

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BMW’s
84 E24 M635csi
90 E34 M5 3.6
94 E34 540i/6 SC E85
97 E36 M3 euro SC U/C
97 Z3 2.8 widebody

OTHERS
11 Audi S5 3.0 SC
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Post by Ozibimmer »

Couple of mine with the Remotec wheels fitted
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_________________________
77 E3 3.0SI
77 E24 633CSi
78 E23 728i
79 E24 633CSi
80 E24 635CSi
82 E24 635csi Race Car Build (Schnitzer Replica) viewtopic.php?t=21792
82 E28 JPS (1 of 2 Ever Built)
85 E30 JPS
GT4ME

Post by GT4ME »

733 really unusual in that red.
weber magic
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Post by weber magic »

Hadn't noticed this thread before, I'm an E23 convert. I absolutely love e23's and think they are the most underrated and forgotten of all the 80's cars. Other than a 535 I can't see why anyone would have an e28 over and e23. E23's are bigger more comfortable and handle really well, and thats not just for a big car. They are an extremely unusual site on UK roads and IMHO much cooler than e28's.

I used to walk past this one every day on my way to school when I was a kid. It belonged to the local doctor who specced it from new with M5 gearbox, clutch and fly wheel as well as sport suspension and the two tone paint which was applied at dealer. The car was then fitted with a poverty pack green velour interior and only one heated mirror an manual sunroof, strange!

The car sat languishing in a local pub car park for years, unused and was unfortunately vandalised. I acquired it in October 2012, drove it as a daily for 8 months and now this year I intend to right all the wrongs.

I have fitted a cardinal red leather interior and black plastics and carpets which all came out of a donor vehicle I broke last year. I have plans to refresh all the paint as it has suffered from lacquer peal in places and I have recently acquired a BBS front spoiler for it.

A few pics
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Best interior shot I have to hand

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As My friend Charlis Wedding car
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weber magic
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Post by weber magic »

Also, Forgot to mention. The engine and drive train is all similar to E24/E28 but everything else is more E12.

Suspension and exhaust are E23 specific

Breaks are the same as E12 based E24's I believe.

Also. FYI I may be acquiring another breaker this year if anyone needs parts.

Will watch this thread :-)
GT4ME

Post by GT4ME »

What model is it Weber?
GazM3
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Post by GazM3 »

weber magic wrote:Hadn't noticed this thread before, I'm an E23 convert. I absolutely love e23's and think they are the most underrated and forgotten of all the 80's cars. Other than a 535 I can't see why anyone would have an e28 over and e23. E23's are bigger more comfortable and handle really well, and thats not just for a big car. They are an extremely unusual site on UK roads and IMHO much cooler than e28's.

I used to walk past this one every day on my way to school when I was a kid. It belonged to the local doctor who specced it from new with M5 gearbox, clutch and fly wheel as well as sport suspension and the two tone paint which was applied at dealer. The car was then fitted with a poverty pack green velour interior and only one heated mirror an manual sunroof, strange!

The car sat languishing in a local pub car park for years, unused and was unfortunately vandalised. I acquired it in October 2012, drove it as a daily for 8 months and now this year I intend to right all the wrongs.

I have fitted a cardinal red leather interior and black plastics and carpets which all came out of a donor vehicle I broke last year. I have plans to refresh all the paint as it has suffered from lacquer peal in places and I have recently acquired a BBS front spoiler for it.

A few pics
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Best interior shot I have to hand

Image[/URL]
As My friend Charlis Wedding car
Image
Wow what an unusual but very cool looking e23. They certainly are a majestic car to drive but are probably not popular as they are difficult to work with and not very pretty from the outside compared to e28. Haven't given mine much loving recently due to no tuning being done it uses quite abit of fuel. I'll have a corse spline mtech1 wheel for it shortly then hope I can get the tuning sorted
BMW’s
84 E24 M635csi
90 E34 M5 3.6
94 E34 540i/6 SC E85
97 E36 M3 euro SC U/C
97 Z3 2.8 widebody

OTHERS
11 Audi S5 3.0 SC
19 VW Amarok V6
weber magic
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Post by weber magic »

GT4ME wrote:What model is it Weber?
It started out life as a bog standard no frills 732i. Its the most tourque of all the engines (I believe???) and it certainly makes it more of a drivers car in keeping with the manual box etc.

The manual box also dramatically improves the MPG and it will average mid 20's with ease and see 30 on a long run.

I am hoping to take it to Gaydn this year and may see if i can get it on a stand if I get all the body work done in time.

Will update pics as I go.
GT4ME

Post by GT4ME »

Thanks for that, I've never been to Gaydon would it be worth the drive down from Scotland?
weber magic
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Post by weber magic »

I went a years back and thoroughly enjoyed the day. Its certainly the best collection of BMW's I've ever seen in one go and the E24 turn out was very good.

I am told that it is supposed to be much improved this year due to a bit of a shake up within the BMW club.

I suspect its a long old way to come for one day Warwick, Stratford upon Avon etc are lovely areas so if you made a weekend of it I'd say yes, You'll have a lovely time.

If you do let me know :-)
GT4ME

Post by GT4ME »

Thanks for that ,I think my chances of making it down this year are slim.

Anyone got any idea what the story is with this car?
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C136271#

It's been advertised for ages and has been on at various different prices from £399 to £1200. Seems very odd.
weber magic
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Post by weber magic »

It's been for sale for as long as I can remember. I've seen it at various prices. The advert reeks of crazy!!! It's obviously been edited so many times that it no longer makes sense.

If your getting keen I know the where abouts of several good cars for sale. I can point you in the right direction if you so desire.
bigsaloon

Post by bigsaloon »

For my sins I’ve owned ten E23s in the period 1992-date. Like any car they are a mix of good and bad points.

1 VRK 43X 728i opal grun
2 DAZ 9068 735 Executive bronzit-beige
3 C659 YFH 732i polaris
4 C400 EKM 735i polaris
5 B95 VJT 735i cosmos blau
6 B450 WYR 732i Graphit
7 C341 VNP 728i polaris
8 C878 WLC 728i Arctic blau
9 BYJ 608Y 735i opal grun
10 A108 VAM 732i opal grun

The only real long-term ownership downer for me has been rust. Everything else is fixable. The HVAC system is over complicated. its vacuum actuators do not last the life span of the car and are they not easy to get at, to replace them. After 20 years of E23s I’m moving on and am looking at ten-year-old modern cars but struggle to find anything with character. E65s have quirky looks that at least don’t look like every other car out there
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Re: Are E23's any good - Yes it seems so

Post by GazM3 »

Been a while since I updated the e23 but I have been slowly fixing it in the background. It has been kind of my daily driver.

Upgrades done since last update.

Speakers & head unit.
The OEM speakers and Becker Mexico system may be nice and period correct but they sound like garbage. Firstly I updated the front and rear speakers. Front Polk 4x6 flat base speaker, and rear Polk 6x9. The fronts fitted fine by cutting the front kick panels which give me a small amount of extra depth. The rear speakers required a small spacer and a little bit of sheetmetal cutting. They sounded ok with the Becker Mexico - well better than the old speakers but the poor old becker was causing me grief with a little bit of static, so just upgraded to a Kenwood unit, which has the orange/red lettering, bluetooth and can work a hands free phone. I originally used them un-amplified but I had a 4 channel amp and 12"subwoofer sitting around so I fitted these as well with new speaker wiring.

It sounded much better but the subwoofer was pretty low in effect coming from the trunk, so I cut a small amount of sheetmetal in the back bulkhead, and it made a massive difference, sounds great, job done.

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Aftermarket steering wheel
All that black and wood grain needed a little bit of bling, so just got hold of a Nardi (copy) $79 steering wheel. Had a silly yellow stripe at the top and a "titanium finish" on the spokes, so a tiny strip of Gaffer tape on the top, and sanding down the silly finish to exposed a rough polished aluminium done the trick. Its the only Nardi copy in 375mm. I tried a 350mm initially but it was too small and couldnt see the gauges unless I pulled out the steering column to the maximum. With the larger wheel I can see the gauges fine.

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3.73:1 LSD upgrade
Ive seen it done a few times, but one very wet day I decided to have a go. Most was reasonably easy, even changing the rear cover was fairly painless, but my problems started when the diff mounts were slightly different. The E23 has about 85mm distance from front to back, and the E24 has 100mm. So I had to carefully slot the subframe, which was pretty nerve racking as the 2x rearward holes are pretty close to the fuel tank. Several trial fits later it all went back together and the re-assembly of the tailshaft and exhaust went smooth after this.

A massive difference to say the least. Coming from an open 3.25:1, as the test was in the wet, what was most apparent is how much more urgent the car is from low speed, and how much more mechanical grip I have especially in the wet. First gear still pulls over 80km/h, and the 100km/h cruise is a still leisurely 2000rpm rather than about 1700 or so. Highly recommended ratio for a moderately powered auto where you still can have low cruising revs but much better acceleration from low speed. City fuel use is about the same 13.8 l/100km. What I lose with the shorter gearing I seem to have gained with the car laboring less and in the happier rpm zone more often.

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Wheel spacers
With the move for comfort back to 16" rims. I now run 25mm spacer on front and 35mm on the rear. The wheels now fill the guards more and give it a more appealing and slightly more modern look.

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Heater valve
I was getting some warm feet which is not great, and at speed the heater was going just luke warm. Replacing the heater valve is a bit of a pain as you have to remove all the wipers, and intake plastic, but the end result is worth it. No warm feet when heater is on coolest setting, and plenty of heat for the cabin on a cold day. The vaccum systems are still working nicely so all vents are working as they should which is a bonus. I replaced the heater core some time ago which was a crap job in the e23, so all is working. Just needing the AC to work now, then I have a fully functioning electrical systems on the E23.



Future upgrades
[*]With summer looming, I really need the AC recommissioned. It all works but has a refrigerant leak somewhere.

[*]I picked up a Miller war chip and Maf, which I will use. Have access to the OEM program ,and the Alpina one which Ill probably use as a base. These seem to work nice for our engines but are a little bit tedious to program. I'll hook up a wideband sensor with AF gauge to help with this process.

[*]It looks like ill be able to make a copy of the very rare South African M745's automatic chip. Hopefully it will work, and the benefit will be more aggressive kickdown program, and higher shift points (for memory about 6500). It should be a good match for the upgraded M30 - watch this space.

[*]Upgraded compression. Originally the modified B35 head I have run, had 11.5:1 comp on OEM high comp pistons with valve pockets with the block decked 15thou. Unfortunately I had to run a very thick 140thou cometic for piston to valve clearance, along with the OEM deck, I guess would have not much more than the factory 10:1 comp. Not bad for the std engine, but probaby a bit low for the upgraded cam with auto transmission. The good news about some bad news I had with the 2002 (long story but had piston to valve clerance issues), is we had a M10/m30 jig made up from an old head. It makes cutting valve relief pockets in pistons possible with the pistons in place. This means I will be able to run an OEM size gasket which will give me compression in the low 11's. Great for power, throttle response etc, and it will work nicely with the upgraded cam making it smoother and more effient.

Image

Geez I'm now tired
BMW’s
84 E24 M635csi
90 E34 M5 3.6
94 E34 540i/6 SC E85
97 E36 M3 euro SC U/C
97 Z3 2.8 widebody

OTHERS
11 Audi S5 3.0 SC
19 VW Amarok V6
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Ozibimmer
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Re: Are E23's any good - Yes it seems so

Post by Ozibimmer »

Hi Gaz
As you know I have a e23 series 2 with series 1 conversion done soon to me manual
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_________________________
77 E3 3.0SI
77 E24 633CSi
78 E23 728i
79 E24 633CSi
80 E24 635CSi
82 E24 635csi Race Car Build (Schnitzer Replica) viewtopic.php?t=21792
82 E28 JPS (1 of 2 Ever Built)
85 E30 JPS
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Re: Are E23's any good - Yes it seems so

Post by GazM3 »

Hey Addam.
I kind of like the character of the auto in the e23. Perhaps I'm becoming an old man. If the auto ever lunches itself id convert it to manual.

Seems you got your hands full with a few projects.
BMW’s
84 E24 M635csi
90 E34 M5 3.6
94 E34 540i/6 SC E85
97 E36 M3 euro SC U/C
97 Z3 2.8 widebody

OTHERS
11 Audi S5 3.0 SC
19 VW Amarok V6
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Re: Are E23's any good - Yes it seems so

Post by Brucey »

I like your valve pockets. Any details of static clearances, rpm limits, cam timing etc?

How bad was the clash?

If you can manage a photo of your jig I'd be interested to see it.

cheers
~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
brickwhite
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Re: Are E23's any good - Yes it seems so

Post by brickwhite »

I like my 85 e23

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-85 735i
-140k
-5 speed 265/6 manual (converted March)
-new clutch
-lightweigh flywheel
-3.73 LSD
- 12 535i
- 92 325ic
GazM3
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Re: Are E23's any good - Yes it seems so

Post by GazM3 »

I like it also there. How difficult was the manual conversion. Due to the intricate nature of a lot of the e23 interior everything is much more difficult than in other models.

I like the body color on the underside of the spoiler and rear valance. Looks much nicer than the nude plastic.


Hey Brucey. The jig lives at the machinists. It is an old m30 head sliced to a single cylinder using a round disk cutting tool replacing the valve operated with a high speed air tool drill. The art is to keep all the relief pockets consistent. They use the jig to mark the outline and hand finish the relief cuts.

I'll take photos of when we do the m30. Compression and timing are King pretty well on any naturally aspirated engine. It really upset me when i had to take out over a point of comp to satisfy the clerance issue. The jig makes a normally very expensive and time consuming job fairly straight forward.

On the 2002 we made the pockets deeper than needed as i may replace my 300deg IE cam for a schrick 304 at some stage in the future.
BMW’s
84 E24 M635csi
90 E34 M5 3.6
94 E34 540i/6 SC E85
97 E36 M3 euro SC U/C
97 Z3 2.8 widebody

OTHERS
11 Audi S5 3.0 SC
19 VW Amarok V6
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