Sports seat height .
Moderators: GRNSHRK, ron, bfons
Sports seat height .
Some feedback would be great on this one Lads .
I've just fitted the newly restored sports seats into my series one .
Although very comfortable I find that the height /rake of the base is a little too high at the front to give me the driving position that I want.
I dismantled the seat runners when I did the resto on them but cannot see anything amiss with the operation . The quadrant that actually moves the pivot point is free and moves accordingly.
I've looked a seat photos on line and although the Recaro seat sits lower at the front the BMW seats I looked at seem to sit at the same angle/level as mine .
The only feasable solution would be to dismantle the seat again , cut the front spar and then redrill the hole that the spring pin fits through .
Anyway , before I remove the seat again ,and to ensure that I am correct and the seat is assembled correctly ,could I ask anyone who has a set of BMW sports seats to measure the dimension in the photo and compare it with mine . The bolster is extended .
The strange additional metal plate on the mount of the seat is/was to allow the comfort seat to sit further to the rear which gave my 6 foot 4 inch frame a more comfortable driving position .
Thanks Don The pivot arm shown here is in this position giving the 9.5 inch dimension .
I've just fitted the newly restored sports seats into my series one .
Although very comfortable I find that the height /rake of the base is a little too high at the front to give me the driving position that I want.
I dismantled the seat runners when I did the resto on them but cannot see anything amiss with the operation . The quadrant that actually moves the pivot point is free and moves accordingly.
I've looked a seat photos on line and although the Recaro seat sits lower at the front the BMW seats I looked at seem to sit at the same angle/level as mine .
The only feasable solution would be to dismantle the seat again , cut the front spar and then redrill the hole that the spring pin fits through .
Anyway , before I remove the seat again ,and to ensure that I am correct and the seat is assembled correctly ,could I ask anyone who has a set of BMW sports seats to measure the dimension in the photo and compare it with mine . The bolster is extended .
The strange additional metal plate on the mount of the seat is/was to allow the comfort seat to sit further to the rear which gave my 6 foot 4 inch frame a more comfortable driving position .
Thanks Don The pivot arm shown here is in this position giving the 9.5 inch dimension .
1981 635 series 1
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Re: Sports seat height .
Ronnie are those original seats from your car? If so you would have noticed the height problem before. I ask this as the levers on the sides of the seats make me think they are possibly E30 sport seats or BMW sport seats which both have a different mounting base then the Recarros usually found in the early cars. So, again, I think you have to back to square 1 and think what the original seats fit like before you put these in. If you need I can take a picture of what an original Recarro seat base looks like.
81 Euro 635 M90 with motronic. Currently under a complete nut and bolt restoration. Pictures at
flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos.
flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos.
Re: Sports seat height .
Don, 250 as measured - on the angle with front bolster mostly extended. I note the rake of your squabs seems steep
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'85 635csi JPS (RA2-66)
Re: Sports seat height .
Do these help at all - 1987 (Dec) 635 Highline RHD.
The bottom part of seat is in its highest position both front and rear. I can take pics and measurements in it's fully lowered position if that could be helpful?
The bottom part of seat is in its highest position both front and rear. I can take pics and measurements in it's fully lowered position if that could be helpful?
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- sportseat3.jpg (1.01 MiB) Viewed 7495 times
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- sportseat2.jpg (740.01 KiB) Viewed 7495 times
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- Sportseat1.jpg (770.19 KiB) Viewed 7495 times
Phil
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1988 Highline 635 CSi
__________________________
1988 Highline 635 CSi
Re: Sports seat height .
Firstly , thank you all for your time and help.
The seats are genuine E24 of 3/84 manufacture . These have replaced the comfort seats in my series one.
The boredom of lockdown an the wonder of the internet have allowed me to look into this a bit more .
Manual sport seat bases seem to have different tabs to powered seats where they bolt onto chassis / floor .
The dimensions that you guys have given me match the seats in my car and although the rake seems extreme it may be the camera setting /angle / shoogly hands of the photographer that exaggerate it. Most , if not all , of the photos I found whilst trawling the 'net this am seem to look the same rake too .
I've looked more at the actual seat mechanism and the pivot action operates from the rear which is a fixed pivot therefore the only adjustment is to raise or lower the front of the seat via the arc from the rear .
As shown in the photo of the seat base in my op the swing pivot arm at the front is already at it's lowest so that is as low as the adjustment allows .
A pity as I would have preffered a lower level of bolster on the front for my height .
I could raise the rear but that just squashes my head against the roof
I'll take a seat out and have a look to see if I can find a way around this , I have a couple of ideas .
I'll report back in due course .
Don
The seats are genuine E24 of 3/84 manufacture . These have replaced the comfort seats in my series one.
The boredom of lockdown an the wonder of the internet have allowed me to look into this a bit more .
Manual sport seat bases seem to have different tabs to powered seats where they bolt onto chassis / floor .
The dimensions that you guys have given me match the seats in my car and although the rake seems extreme it may be the camera setting /angle / shoogly hands of the photographer that exaggerate it. Most , if not all , of the photos I found whilst trawling the 'net this am seem to look the same rake too .
I've looked more at the actual seat mechanism and the pivot action operates from the rear which is a fixed pivot therefore the only adjustment is to raise or lower the front of the seat via the arc from the rear .
As shown in the photo of the seat base in my op the swing pivot arm at the front is already at it's lowest so that is as low as the adjustment allows .
A pity as I would have preffered a lower level of bolster on the front for my height .
I could raise the rear but that just squashes my head against the roof
I'll take a seat out and have a look to see if I can find a way around this , I have a couple of ideas .
I'll report back in due course .
Don
Last edited by olympia57 on Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1981 635 series 1
Re: Sports seat height .
Here's a few pics of mine with front and back in their lowest positions.
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- Sportseat5.jpg (870.38 KiB) Viewed 7482 times
Phil
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1988 Highline 635 CSi
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1988 Highline 635 CSi
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Re: Sports seat height .
Don, are you SURE you have a series I car
I realize the the MY is '81, but Europe was ahead of the USofA in the changeover from series I to series II and the 82MY was a mixed bag over here
But looking at your center console and shifter surround, that sure appears to be series II to me
Point is, you list a a date of manufacture of the seats as 03/84 which wouldn't bolt directly into a series I floor pan, at least I don't think it would
I am attaching a photo of my interior that shows not only the shifter surround as being completely different, but also shows the black vertical lever that is used to manually alter both the height and angle or tilt of the seat base, which I don't see in your photos either
Not doubting you, but something's not adding up, IMHO
And by the way, of course the driver's side in the green shark is also stuck in a similar position that you are dealing with and I have yet to get it freed up
I realize the the MY is '81, but Europe was ahead of the USofA in the changeover from series I to series II and the 82MY was a mixed bag over here
But looking at your center console and shifter surround, that sure appears to be series II to me
Point is, you list a a date of manufacture of the seats as 03/84 which wouldn't bolt directly into a series I floor pan, at least I don't think it would
I am attaching a photo of my interior that shows not only the shifter surround as being completely different, but also shows the black vertical lever that is used to manually alter both the height and angle or tilt of the seat base, which I don't see in your photos either
Not doubting you, but something's not adding up, IMHO
And by the way, of course the driver's side in the green shark is also stuck in a similar position that you are dealing with and I have yet to get it freed up
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- newseats2.jpeg (132.56 KiB) Viewed 7465 times
Bobbo
1980 633 CSi Cypress Green/Pearl Beige
2017 X5 M Sport Xdrive 35i Carbon Black/Ivory White
2005 330 Ci ZHP Cabrio Imola Red/Bone/Black
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Re: Sports seat height .
+1 That is what I was trying to convey as well. The adjustment levers on the side of the seat leave me curious as well And Bobbo, my May of 81 pure series one car has the different shift surround with the early metal boot frame not the plastic E28 one. Go figure
81 Euro 635 M90 with motronic. Currently under a complete nut and bolt restoration. Pictures at
flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos.
flickr.com/photos/bertsphotos.
Re: Sports seat height .
Oh , it's a bona fide series one all right .
From the rear axle to the four piston front calipers , rear vented discs to the PCD and pattern of the strut tops to the specific wiring diagram that only Ron could find for me ......etc etc ...
I became rather adept in drilling down into numerous parts manuals to determine and confirm the correct part for the car when I replaced every component in the suspension, steering and brakes . No doubt .
Bobbo . The seats in your car are Recaro's mine are BMW sports seats . They are two completely different seats . Different in profile ( and trim ) , base ,operation etc . If you look on OEM there is no interchangeability between them .
My car had original factory comfort seats . The mounting point bolt dimensions are exactly the same as the E28 based sports seats . I believe that the floor on the early Karmann built cars was different from the later BMW built cars in that the later had the raised x member and rear mounts ( a'la series 2 ) whereas the earlier cars had a flatter floor . I'm open to challange on this .....
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EDIT
This video shows the earlier floor layout at 16.51.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d47P6s3 ... YhMeFbYwp8
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The centre console is correct for the series one 3 speed auto . The console on your car is a manual which has a well in it for the manual shift ( I have one for my planned manual conversion ) ,the auto is flush with top . Series 2 auto consoles are different again having a raised selector profile . I again believe that it's not a line in the sand change over as I think it's Pod on here who has a series two with the 3HP22 auto box from factory therefore a series one console .
If you Google " BMW E24 interiors " and then select images all will be revealed .
I spent too much time yesterday looking at the problem and after saving 35 images the rake is comparable with all others . Interestingly I noticed that the fore aft lever rod on E30 seats is cranked whereas E24 item is straight , sad I know ....
I looked at the photos of your seats Bobbo long ago and wanted the angle that they have but the mechanism of the sports seats just don't and can't offer it.
However , there may be a cunning plan ........
From the rear axle to the four piston front calipers , rear vented discs to the PCD and pattern of the strut tops to the specific wiring diagram that only Ron could find for me ......etc etc ...
I became rather adept in drilling down into numerous parts manuals to determine and confirm the correct part for the car when I replaced every component in the suspension, steering and brakes . No doubt .
Bobbo . The seats in your car are Recaro's mine are BMW sports seats . They are two completely different seats . Different in profile ( and trim ) , base ,operation etc . If you look on OEM there is no interchangeability between them .
My car had original factory comfort seats . The mounting point bolt dimensions are exactly the same as the E28 based sports seats . I believe that the floor on the early Karmann built cars was different from the later BMW built cars in that the later had the raised x member and rear mounts ( a'la series 2 ) whereas the earlier cars had a flatter floor . I'm open to challange on this .....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT
This video shows the earlier floor layout at 16.51.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d47P6s3 ... YhMeFbYwp8
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The centre console is correct for the series one 3 speed auto . The console on your car is a manual which has a well in it for the manual shift ( I have one for my planned manual conversion ) ,the auto is flush with top . Series 2 auto consoles are different again having a raised selector profile . I again believe that it's not a line in the sand change over as I think it's Pod on here who has a series two with the 3HP22 auto box from factory therefore a series one console .
If you Google " BMW E24 interiors " and then select images all will be revealed .
I spent too much time yesterday looking at the problem and after saving 35 images the rake is comparable with all others . Interestingly I noticed that the fore aft lever rod on E30 seats is cranked whereas E24 item is straight , sad I know ....
I looked at the photos of your seats Bobbo long ago and wanted the angle that they have but the mechanism of the sports seats just don't and can't offer it.
However , there may be a cunning plan ........
Last edited by olympia57 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
1981 635 series 1
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Re: Sports seat height .
Don, thanks for confirming, like I said, I wasn't doubting you, but did not realize that the shifter surrounds were different between manual and automatic tranny's
Clearly you know what you have, based on the clear differences, diff, brakes, etc.
While the seats that I have are Recaro's, they are actually from an E21 320 iS, great seats
So comfortable, I had "comfort" seats as well and could not wait to bin them
Well, sorry, but I cannot offer much else in the way of assistance, but I'm sure the Big Coupe braintrust will help you get sorted
Clearly you know what you have, based on the clear differences, diff, brakes, etc.
While the seats that I have are Recaro's, they are actually from an E21 320 iS, great seats
So comfortable, I had "comfort" seats as well and could not wait to bin them
Well, sorry, but I cannot offer much else in the way of assistance, but I'm sure the Big Coupe braintrust will help you get sorted
Bobbo
1980 633 CSi Cypress Green/Pearl Beige
2017 X5 M Sport Xdrive 35i Carbon Black/Ivory White
2005 330 Ci ZHP Cabrio Imola Red/Bone/Black
Re: Sports seat height .
S'funny Bobbo but over the time that I was looking for replacement seats for my car I frequently came across photos of your seats and thought " yep that's what I want ...." they look beautiful .
Recaro's would have been my first choice , and I actually have have a pair from a European GM model , but they are in a fabric and the cost of re upholstering them in leather ,to suit the Parchment interior in mine ,was just prohibitive .
I have not driven the car yet with the seats fitted due to the lock down situation we are all enduring , but they are VERY comfortable to sit in and the position I have them adjusted to seems to work . .So it may all be a storm in a teacup.
Cheers
Don
Recaro's would have been my first choice , and I actually have have a pair from a European GM model , but they are in a fabric and the cost of re upholstering them in leather ,to suit the Parchment interior in mine ,was just prohibitive .
I have not driven the car yet with the seats fitted due to the lock down situation we are all enduring , but they are VERY comfortable to sit in and the position I have them adjusted to seems to work . .So it may all be a storm in a teacup.
Cheers
Don
1981 635 series 1
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Re: Sports seat height .
Hi Don,
Just a thought - have your mounting rails got the raised pillars on the mounting points, or are they flat? I know I was able to gain some headroom in an E28 by cutting these pillars down.
My '84 E24 sports seats have the flat mounting rails, so I dare say yours are the same.
You have reignited my enthusiasm for my upholstery project in any case!
Just a thought - have your mounting rails got the raised pillars on the mounting points, or are they flat? I know I was able to gain some headroom in an E28 by cutting these pillars down.
My '84 E24 sports seats have the flat mounting rails, so I dare say yours are the same.
You have reignited my enthusiasm for my upholstery project in any case!
"Most of it necessary; all of it enjoyable." LJKS
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
'84 635CSi, dogleg...itbs and supercharger????? Eaton Mess
Re: Sports seat height .
Hi Rob
Thanks for the suggestion .
The mounting faces , front and rear , are flat .
There is a small , maybe 3mm , boss on the underside of each hole to give strength and rigidity to the moun but not enough that removal would make a difference .
I've looked at it again and all is correct . I'll wait until I can drive it again and decide if it needs further " adjustment " .
In these lock down times I feel it's inappropriate to be driving around in the car .
Thanks for the suggestion .
The mounting faces , front and rear , are flat .
There is a small , maybe 3mm , boss on the underside of each hole to give strength and rigidity to the moun but not enough that removal would make a difference .
I've looked at it again and all is correct . I'll wait until I can drive it again and decide if it needs further " adjustment " .
In these lock down times I feel it's inappropriate to be driving around in the car .
1981 635 series 1