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President Donald J Trump makes history...

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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by CSGuy » Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:39 pm

masonjones wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:35 am
CSGuy wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:51 pm
Ok, it's old and xiden has given us so many more reasons to appreciate mean tweets since jacking with the price of gas. but 8 months in, the rehash seems worthwhile.
I have to say, most of the hatred that I see in memes like that Hunter gem come from the political parties who need us to hate each other. It is not enough to simply disagree, as that doesn't motivate people to go to the polls at voting time. You must think the "other side" is evil and they must be defeated at all cost, else the nation you love will perish.

Now for the boring part where I don't call anyone evil and simply talk about data. The low price of gas we experienced during Trump's presidency was during the lockdown when the economy shutdown and people stopped driving. You could drive around the empty city streets with the top down and feel like Charlton Heston in The Omega Man. As the economy began to reopen at the end of Trump's term the price of gas and other commodities had already begun to climb again.

You can see from the chart below that despite what some memes and political party talking points say, gas prices were lower at the end of Obama's last term than they were under Trump before COVID hit and the economy shut down.


Don't worry though, you don't have to thank Obama for those low prices before Trump got here, they were the result of technological advances that made fracking and horizontal drilling of shale more profitable in this country. Trump may claim to have made the U.S. energy independent but the boom in domestic crude production began well before he was in office (chart below) and does not seem to have suffered any under Obama.

If you want to thank someone for bringing us closer to being energy independent thank a geophysicist not a politician.
[/quote]
the topic is biden, not obama and the key point is that Trump kept inflation in check while increasing middle-class HHI. something that neither obama or biden can claim. If fact, you may remember obama saying those jobs were not coming back.

You do bring up a good point on the source of political memes, maybe you can explain why they're divisive now that biden is the focus but were not when Trump was the target.

Anyway, back to biden...It really doesn't matter who started the crude boom, it's clear that biden wants to end it, along with bringing back inflation rates not experienced since the day's jimmy carter
As a reminder, Trump left office at the end of January...

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_gas_price

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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by Jlc » Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:00 pm

key point is that Trump kept inflation in check while increasing middle-class HHI. something that neither obama or biden can claim. If fact, you may remember obama saying those jobs were not coming back.
One reason, and probably the main reason, gas prices and inflation were low was the pandemic basically shutdown business. When demand drops off a cliff prices will come down. Inflation is part of the outcome of the recovery, such as the increase in gas prices due to increased demand. Even so, gas prices when Trump left in 2020
were higher than when he came in in 2016 (by about 1 cent), and were rising until the pandemic hit.

Until pent up demand is satisfied and the supply chain gets back to normal so supples aren't constrained, we can expect a higher inflation rate. Even so, it's been below the Fed's target of 2% for a while.

Prepandemic the economic growth basically continued at the same rate as in the tail end of the Obama presidency. HHI is a bad indictor, real wages, i.e., inflation adjusted haven't really gone up for decades.

In many ways, presidents are either the beneficiaries or victims of an economy they have little control over.

As for jobs, many aren't returning, despite promises to the contrary. Tariffs can bring back jobs at the expense of higher prices, which is why tariffs are a hidden tax on US consumers.
Last edited by Jlc on Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by masonjones » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:26 pm

[/quote]
the topic is biden, not obama and the key point is that Trump kept inflation in check while increasing middle-class HHI. something that neither obama or biden can claim. If fact, you may remember obama saying those jobs were not coming back.

You do bring up a good point on the source of political memes, maybe you can explain why they're divisive now that biden is the focus but were not when Trump was the target.

Anyway, back to biden...It really doesn't matter who started the crude boom, it's clear that biden wants to end it, along with bringing back inflation rates not experienced since the day's jimmy carter
As a reminder, Trump left office at the end of January...

https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_gas_price
[/quote]

Agreed, political memes are divisive no matter who they are about. It's one reason I rarely join in political discussion on social media, it always devolves into a back and forth of simply trying to score points against the other side rather than trying to solve problems.

I bring up past presidents to make the point that president's don't have as much control over the economy (and energy prices in particular) that they claim. I'm not saying Obama started the boom in domestic oil production, he didn't. But it is also a talking point (myth) that Obama strangled oil production with regulations and Trump opened it up. You can see that by looking at domestic crude production over time.

The reason oil prices have gone up is because the economy is opening back up and demand has outpaced supply. Add to that the annual rise in gas prices that happens every summer (the one exception being the summer of 2020 when we went into lockdown) and you have prices where they are now.

As for Biden, he couldn't end the oil boom if he wanted to. Economic recovery depends on it and he knows that. The ban on new drilling leases he made a big deal about signing are only on federal lands and don't take place until the future. New leases are still being approved at record rates.

I'm not an expert on any of this stuff I just like to read so feel free to correct me where I'm wrong. I have no problem discussing the good and the bad of either party.
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by CSGuy » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:42 pm

Jlc wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:00 pm


One reason, and probably the main reason, gas prices and inflation were low was the pandemic basically shutdown business. When demand drops off a cliff prices will come down. Inflation is part of the outcome of the recovery, such as the increase in gas prices due to increased demand. Even so, gas prices when Trump left in 2020
were higher than when he came in in 2016 (by about 1 cent), and were rising until the pandemic hit.

Until pent up demand is satisfied and the supply chain gets back to normal so supples aren't constrained, we can expect a higher inflation rate. Even so, it's been below the Fed's target of 2% for a while.

Prepandemic the economic growth basically continued at the same rate as in the tail end of the Obama presidency. HHI is a bad indictor, real wages, i.e., inflation adjusted haven't really gone up for decades.

In many ways, presidents are either the beneficiaries or victims of an economy they have little control over.

As for jobs, many aren't returning, despite promises to the contrary. Tariffs can bring back jobs at the expense of higher prices, which is why tariffs are a hidden tax on US consumers.
The fact is that 2019 gas prices were far less the today's prices and that was with our economy running full tilt, not hobbled state we're in today.

As for supply chain issues, there are over 80 container ships anchored off the coast of Orange County with similar situations at ports around the country. After all, we've had pandemics before, but never with issues like this...I can't help but wonder who benefits

Inflation stayed low under both Obama and Trump for a reason and policy was is part of it. bidens first 6mo in office produced the biggest jump in the CPI ever and that coupled with bidens new taxes on business will result in a greater hidden tax than controlled tariffs ever would in addition to restricting instead of producing job growth.

Saying real, adjusted wages didn't increase under Trump when they had actually increased 2.4% through may of 2019, is just flat out false.

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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by CSGuy » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:46 pm

masonjones wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:26 pm


Agreed, political memes are divisive no matter who they are about. It's one reason I rarely join in political discussion on social media, it always devolves into a back and forth of simply trying to score points against the other side rather than trying to solve problems.

I bring up past presidents to make the point that president's don't have as much control over the economy (and energy prices in particular) that they claim. I'm not saying Obama started the boom in domestic oil production, he didn't. But it is also a talking point (myth) that Obama strangled oil production with regulations and Trump opened it up. You can see that by looking at domestic crude production over time.

The reason oil prices have gone up is because the economy is opening back up and demand has outpaced supply. Add to that the annual rise in gas prices that happens every summer (the one exception being the summer of 2020 when we went into lockdown) and you have prices where they are now.

As for Biden, he couldn't end the oil boom if he wanted to. Economic recovery depends on it and he knows that. The ban on new drilling leases he made a big deal about signing are only on federal lands and don't take place until the future. New leases are still being approved at record rates.

I'm not an expert on any of this stuff I just like to read so feel free to correct me where I'm wrong. I have no problem discussing the good and the bad of either party.
Unfortunately, there's a lot of misinformation on the internet and what you say about Obama is some of it. Truth is production cuts came in bush's last year in office and by the end of Obama's reign domestic production had increased from those lows by almost 50%.

Additionally, since biden took office through 8/2021 the Consumer Prices Index made its largest jump ever. So yes, I find viewing policy and prices separately as naive.

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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by Jlc » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:48 pm

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Last edited by Jlc on Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by Jlc » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:49 pm

CSGuy wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:42 pm



The fact is that 2019 gas prices were far less the today's prices and that was with our economy running full tilt, not hobbled state we're in today.
In 2019 gas prices peaked at just under $3 and are just above $3 today. That's hardly far less and they didn't tank until the economy did.
Inflation stayed low under both Obama and Trump for a reason and policy was is part of it. bidens first 6mo in office produced the biggest jump in the CPI ever
Actually it's far from the biggest jump ever, and Trump's CPI jumps were higher all 4 years than Obama's. As for policy, yes the Fed did a great job then.
and that coupled with bidens new taxes on business will result in a greater hidden tax than controlled tariffs ever would in addition to restricting instead of producing job growth.
Tariffs are a universally bad idea, raising prices, supporting non-competitive industries and driving others out of business.
Saying real, adjusted wages didn't increase under Trump
Actually, what I said was:
HHI is a bad indictor, real wages, i.e., inflation adjusted haven't really gone up for decades.
Real wages continued their upward trend since the end of the Bush presidency; but by 2019 had merely reached 1973 levels.
when they had actually increased 2.4% through may of 2019, is just flat out false.
And I never said they didn't increase; although May 2019 annual number was .13 % and the increase over the preceding 3 years May - May was 1.9%. For comparison, Obama's rose 2.8% over 4 years vs. Trumps 3.1% January to January while in office.
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by CSGuy » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:17 am

Objectivity usually finds the correct answer, agenda...Not so much.

This is from Factcheck.org and is based on data available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
It is true that inflation-adjusted wages (average weekly for production and nonsupervisory workers) peaked in February 1973 at $345.95, and then fluctuated but generally declined, hitting a low point of $263.73 in January 1996. They have again fluctuated since, but they’ve been on a general upward trend. They have increased 2.4% since Trump took office, from an average $308.21 per week to $315.74 per week in May, the most recent figures available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Technical note: All wage figures cited in this story from BLS are calculated in 1982-84 dollars – not current 2019 dollars.
As for gas prices, you say gas peaked at just under $3 in 2019.

I'll just leave this for today's prices...

download/file.php?mode=view&id=32732
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by Jlc » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:04 am

CSGuy wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:17 am
Objectivity usually finds the correct answer, agenda...Not so much.

This is from Factcheck.org and is based on data available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
It is true that inflation-adjusted wages (average weekly for production and nonsupervisory workers) peaked in February 1973 at $345.95, and then fluctuated but generally declined, hitting a low point of $263.73 in January 1996. They have again fluctuated since, but they’ve been on a general upward trend. They have increased 2.4% since Trump took office, from an average $308.21 per week to $315.74 per week in May, the most recent figures available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Technical note: All wage figures cited in this story from BLS are calculated in 1982-84 dollars – not current 2019 dollars.
As for gas prices, you say gas peaked at just under $3 in 2019.

I'll just leave this for today's prices...

download/file.php?mode=view&id=32732
From EIA.gov:

U.S. regular retail gasoline prices averaged $2.60 per gallon (gal) in 2019, 11 cents/gal (4%) lower than in 2018. Gasoline prices rose steadily during the first quarter of the year, rising from $2.24 on January 7 to $2.90/gal on May 6, before gradually declining through the rest of the year. Because the cost of crude oil accounts for about 52% of retail gasoline’s final cost, the price of gasoline generally follows movements in crude oil prices, which followed a similar price path during 2019.
So yes, average price peaked just under #3 as I said. Crude tanked during the pandemic because demand tanked as well. Per AAA, national average for Is $3.221; not far off its peak in 2019 before the economy and demand tanked.
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by CSGuy » Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:51 pm

For the sake of discussion, let's say gas with the economy in full swing was 2.99 on 12/31/2019

and some 6 months into a still restricted biden presidency it's 3.22. That's a 9% difference in 6 months...and in many states, like the liberal shithole I live in, it's more like 30%. Thanks for making my point.

I'll take mean tweets over public education, anyday. CYA

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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by Jlc » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:55 am

CSGuy wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:51 pm
For the sake of discussion, let's say gas with the economy in full swing was 2.99 on 12/31/2019
The economy was no where near in full swing then.
and some 6 months into a still restricted biden presidency it's 3.22. That's a 9% difference in 6 months...and in many states, like the liberal shithole I live in, it's more like 30%. Thanks for making my point.
First, if you are comparing the average with where you live it's not a valid comparison. In California, for example, the 2019 Dec price was was 3.610 for and the 2020 was 3.143.

If you look at Cali prices during the Tump years, gas went from 2.823 to 3.610, about a 30% increase despite one of the worst economic recessions in a long time. Its peak, in October 2019, was 4.116. The 4.44 number is less than 9% higher than Trump's peak gas. It may be a bit higher % because I am using all formulations number and regular is probably at the lower end of the data set, and the 4.44 number is for regular. It looks like regualr runs about .08 cents less than the avergae, so it would have been 4.036 rather than 4.116, which would put it at 10% higher.

2021 will be higher than 2020 but with increased demand, hurricanes impacting production in the gulf, etc. that is not surprising. Even your 3.22 number is less than a 9% difference from December.
Last edited by Jlc on Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:26 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by sharkfan » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:58 pm

CSGuy wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:51 pm
For the sake of discussion, <snip>

like the liberal shithole I live in, it's more like 30%. Thanks for making my point.<snip>
For the sake of discussion - precisely what makes it ''the liberal shithole" please?
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by CSGuy » Mon Oct 11, 2021 2:31 pm

sharkfan wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:58 pm
CSGuy wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:51 pm


For the sake of discussion - precisely what makes it ''the liberal shithole" please?


To keep it simple and focused on US states, I'll say any state that jails citizens for jogging alone on the beach, without a mask and at the same time condones pooping on sidewalks and maskless rioting is a shithole.
Last edited by CSGuy on Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by CSGuy » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:03 pm

Jlc wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:55 am
CSGuy wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:51 pm
For the sake of discussion, let's say gas with the economy in full swing was 2.99 on 12/31/2019
The economy was no where near in full swing then.
and some 6 months into a still restricted biden presidency it's 3.22. That's a 9% difference in 6 months...and in many states, like the liberal shithole I live in, it's more like 30%. Thanks for making my point.
First, if you are comparing the average with where you live it's not a valid comparison. In California, for example, the 2019 Dec price was was 3.610 for and the 2020 was 3.143.

If you look at Cali prices during the Tump years, gas went from 2.823 to 3.610, about a 30% increase despite one of the worst economic recessions in a long time. Its peak, in October 2019, was 4.116. The 4.44 number is less than 9% higher than Trump's peak gas. It may be a bit higher % because I am using all formulations number and regular is probably at the lower end of the data set, and the 4.44 number is for regular. It looks like regualr runs about .08 cents less than the avergae, so it would have been 4.036 rather than 4.116, which would put it at 10% higher.

2021 will be higher than 2020 but with increased demand, hurricanes impacting production in the gulf, etc. that is not surprising. Even your 3.22 number is less than a 9% difference from December.
You're working hard to defend an indefensible position and most of your post doesn't warrant a reply.

However, given that I started the gas price comment, I'll respond to that.

Let's start by standardizing the prices used...this is from the DOE and gives monthly averages, back to 1994.
December 2020 gas was 2.555 a gallon, in September 2021 gas was 3.175. In percentages, a 24.266% increase.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... us_dpg&f=m

Fact is that with his 50 years in government, Minister Xiden has produced no benefit for the American people in general and I have to question the thought process of anyone giving him a pass on his performance.

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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by Jlc » Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:18 pm

CSGuy wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:03 pm
You're working hard to defend an indefensible position and most of your post doesn't warrant a reply.
Why, because everything I have said was factually correct.
Let's start by standardizing the prices used...this is from the DOE and gives monthly averages, back to 1994.
December 2020 gas was 2.555 a gallon, in September 2021 gas was 3.175. In percentages, a 24.266% increase.
Let's look pre-pandemic summer prices (gas costs more to produce for summer blends), which is a better comparison than during the recession in 2020. Note: Percentages are non-inflation adjusted

May 2019:2.859 11%
June 2018:2.901 9%

It will be interesting to see what happens once output and refinery production returns. The wild card is OPEC, will Saudi starting pump to hurt Iran, MBS get into another spat with Putin, or keep output lower to shore up prices to get the cash it needs for its long term plans?

As a separate comparison, at the end of the Obama administration gas was 2.349. Under Trump, prices started to rise, peaking at 2.901 (23%) and not dropping to Obama's level until the pandemic and response to it trashed the economy and demand.

Those are the facts. You may not like them, but facts are facts and facts matter.
Last edited by Jlc on Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by Ralph in Socal » Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:35 pm

Then there’s Alternative Facts. Not real facts but believable to many

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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by CSGuy » Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:00 pm

Jlc wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:18 pm
CSGuy wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:03 pm
You're working hard to defend an indefensible position and most of your post doesn't warrant a reply.
Why, because everything I have said was factually correct.
Let's start by standardizing the prices used...this is from the DOE and gives monthly averages, back to 1994.
December 2020 gas was 2.555 a gallon, in September 2021 gas was 3.175. In percentages, a 24.266% increase.
Let's look pre-pandemic summer prices (gas costs more to produce for summer blends), which is a better comparison than during the recession in 2020. Note: Percentages are non-inflation adjusted

May 2019:2.859 11%
June 2018:2.901 9%

It will be interesting to see what happens once output and refinery production returns. The wild card is OPEC, will Saudi starting pump to hurt Iran, MBS get into another spat with Putin, or keep output lower to shore up prices to get the cash it needs for its long term plans?

As a separate comparison, at the end of the Obama administration gas was 2.349. Under Trump, prices started to rise, peaking at 2.901 (23%) and not dropping to Obama's level until the pandemic and response to it trashed the economy and demand.

Those are the facts. You may not like them, but facts are facts and facts matter.
biden and the increases he's produced is the topic, not obama, or trump...hell, Reagan was President too. Should I go back and use prices from his day?

You first chose to compare 1/2020 prices with 9/2021 gas prices and with those prices not working, you want to go back to 2019/2018.
I showed and documented a 24% increase in bidens 1st 8mo and now that you've been shown that is correct you want to change the numbers to ones that suit you.

You don't get to change the numbers, just because they show your wrong.

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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by masonjones » Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:15 pm

CSGuy wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:00 pm
Jlc wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:18 pm
CSGuy wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:03 pm
You're working hard to defend an indefensible position and most of your post doesn't warrant a reply.
Why, because everything I have said was factually correct.
Let's start by standardizing the prices used...this is from the DOE and gives monthly averages, back to 1994.
December 2020 gas was 2.555 a gallon, in September 2021 gas was 3.175. In percentages, a 24.266% increase.
Let's look pre-pandemic summer prices (gas costs more to produce for summer blends), which is a better comparison than during the recession in 2020. Note: Percentages are non-inflation adjusted

May 2019:2.859 11%
June 2018:2.901 9%

It will be interesting to see what happens once output and refinery production returns. The wild card is OPEC, will Saudi starting pump to hurt Iran, MBS get into another spat with Putin, or keep output lower to shore up prices to get the cash it needs for its long term plans?

As a separate comparison, at the end of the Obama administration gas was 2.349. Under Trump, prices started to rise, peaking at 2.901 (23%) and not dropping to Obama's level until the pandemic and response to it trashed the economy and demand.

Those are the facts. You may not like them, but facts are facts and facts matter.
biden and the increases he's produced is the topic, not obama, or trump...hell, Reagan was President too. Should I go back and use prices from his day?

You first chose to compare 1/2020 prices with 9/2021 gas prices and with those prices not working, you want to go back to 2019/2018.
I showed and documented a 24% increase in bidens 1st 8mo and now that you've been shown that is correct you want to change the numbers to ones that suit you.

You don't get to change the numbers, just because they show your wrong.
No one is disputing the numbers. You are trying to blame Biden for the rise in prices since the economy opened back up but the reason is, well, the economy opened back up. Gas prices have been rising all over the world as renewed demand outstrips supply. The U.S. president doesn't have that kind of power over energy prices. Milton Friedman could be president right now and gas prices would still be going up.
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by sharkfan » Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:17 pm

CSGuy wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:51 pm
sharkfan wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:58 pm



For the sake of discussion - precisely what makes it ''the liberal shithole" please?


To keep it simple and focused on US states, I'll say any state that jails citizens for jogging alone on the beach, without a mask and at the same time condones pooping on sidewalks and maskless rioting is a shithole.
That's not really an answer - just what is it that makes it a 'liberal shithole' please?

You've made the statement - all I'm asking is that you back it up; those examples you've given - 'to keep it simple' - seem like huge generalisms and actually not backed up by facts.
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by CSGuy » Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:25 pm

masonjones wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:15 pm
CSGuy wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:00 pm
Jlc wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:18 pm


Why, because everything I have said was factually correct.



Let's look pre-pandemic summer prices (gas costs more to produce for summer blends), which is a better comparison than during the recession in 2020. Note: Percentages are non-inflation adjusted

May 2019:2.859 11%
June 2018:2.901 9%

It will be interesting to see what happens once output and refinery production returns. The wild card is OPEC, will Saudi starting pump to hurt Iran, MBS get into another spat with Putin, or keep output lower to shore up prices to get the cash it needs for its long term plans?

As a separate comparison, at the end of the Obama administration gas was 2.349. Under Trump, prices started to rise, peaking at 2.901 (23%) and not dropping to Obama's level until the pandemic and response to it trashed the economy and demand.

Those are the facts. You may not like them, but facts are facts and facts matter.
biden and the increases he's produced is the topic, not obama, or trump...hell, Reagan was President too. Should I go back and use prices from his day?

You first chose to compare 1/2020 prices with 9/2021 gas prices and with those prices not working, you want to go back to 2019/2018.
I showed and documented a 24% increase in bidens 1st 8mo and now that you've been shown that is correct you want to change the numbers to ones that suit you.

You don't get to change the numbers, just because they show your wrong.
No one is disputing the numbers. You are trying to blame Biden for the rise in prices since the economy opened back up but the reason is, well, the economy opened back up. Gas prices have been rising all over the world as renewed demand outstrips supply. The U.S. president doesn't have that kind of power over energy prices. Milton Friedman could be president right now and gas prices would still be going up.
Agreed, presidents don't control prices when it comes to nickles and pennies but their policies do influence direction

If biden was serious about controlling inflation, his first actions in January wouldn't have been to impose restrictions on the industry.

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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by CSGuy » Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:29 pm

sharkfan wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:17 pm
CSGuy wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:51 pm
sharkfan wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:58 pm



For the sake of discussion - precisely what makes it ''the liberal shithole" please?


To keep it simple and focused on US states, I'll say any state that jails citizens for jogging alone on the beach, without a mask and at the same time condones pooping on sidewalks and maskless rioting is a shithole.
That's not really an answer - just what is it that makes it a 'liberal shithole' please?

You've made the statement - all I'm asking is that you back it up; those examples you've given - 'to keep it simple' - seem like huge generalisms and actually not backed up by facts.
Your saying those things didn't happen, I'm suggesting you get out more because they did and they happened in a state been under blue rule for many years

So yes, it is a factual answer. I can't help it that you don't like

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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by Jlc » Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:55 pm

CSGuy wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:25 pm
Agreed, presidents don't control prices when it comes to nickles and pennies but their policies do influence direction
True.
If biden was serious about controlling inflation, his first actions in January wouldn't have been to impose restrictions on the industry.
Actually, the Fed tries to control inflation around 2%. It will be interesting to see how things play out once there is some sembelance of a normal economy. High demand and short supply of things like cars, cotton have driven up prices; once supply chains return to normal we should see some easing.

Interestingly, inflation was rising under trump until the pandemic hit.
To keep it simple and focused on US states, I'll say any state that jails citizens for jogging alone on the beach,without a mask
If you're talking about the guy in Glendale he was arrested for spitting on and threatening people.
and at the same time condones pooping on sidewalks and maskless rioting is a shithole.
Yea, Florida can be pretty bad.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/anti-mas ... 1b09ca8c8b

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/its ... s/2425604/

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 62158.html
85 635CSi Bronzit

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sharkfan
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by sharkfan » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:09 am

CSGuy wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:29 pm

Your saying those things didn't happen, I'm suggesting you get out more because they did and they happened in a state been under blue rule for many years

So yes, it is a factual answer. I can't help it that you don't like
So those two things on their own make it a 'liberal shithole'?

May I suggest you get more and see what the rest of the country and the world is like.
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by 86_6series » Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:21 pm

Jlc,

You can give them the true facts all day long, they'll
never believe the facts or they'll change the subject.

I live 20 miles from NYC--a shithole I left in 1971.

Republican mayors clean it up, Democratic mayors
make it turn to shit again. So the cycle never ends.

I don't waste my time trying to explain anymore
to people with an incurable mental disorder.

Here, try this on for size and watch them deny what's going on.

https://www.prageru.com/video/control-t ... he-culture

Bob V

Jlc
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Re: President Donald J Trump makes history...

Post by Jlc » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:53 pm

86_6series wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:21 pm
Jlc,

You can give them the true facts all day long, they'll
never believe the facts or they'll change the subject.

I live 20 miles from NYC--a shithole I left in 1971.

Republican mayors clean it up, Democratic mayors
make it turn to shit again. So the cycle never ends.
I've always found it to be a mixed bag, crime rates in the 200's pretty much dropped until the pandemic, for example, dropped during Guiliani (R), spiked and dropped during Bloomberg (R), and dropped again under DeBlazio (D). Of course, crime rate is a bit missleading as some go up, some go down; so like the Dow and stocks, it's hard to draw any specific conclusions about crimes.
85 635CSi Bronzit

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